DavidF

<<why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?>>

Your initial proposition was:
<<I know of nothing that Islam has done that approaches the magnitude of [Jewish holocaust --which was --"fueled by centuries of Christian hatred"].

Clearly you weren't in any way reticent about pointing out the mote in the eye --or the blame due to -- your "brother" Christians!

But when someone, in response to your challenge, points out an event on a scale much greater than the Jewish holocaust-- fuelled by centuries of Islamic hatred -- you suddenly get coy!

Fascinating!

I've just come across an article whose author presents
another perspective to this discussion,
one that may be also be worth considering:

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/multicultural/grassroots/muslim-community-in-australia.pdf

The Conclusion of this article tells us that:

"Muslim-Australians from different national and ethnic backgrounds
brought their own versions of religious and cultural traditions,
making them a very heterogeneous group in Australia."

"The assumption that Muslim-Australians are an un-integrated group
of people and therefore need to be integrated into the larger
Australian society through government programs and policy
is only partially true."

In the opinion of the article's author: -

"The Muslim integration issue is directly linked to their
social and economic marginalisation from broader Australian
society. In other words, Muslim integration or lack thereof,
has a lot to do with the levels of racism and discrimination
that still exist in Australian society."

In the opinion of the article's author, "It is the social
and economic marginalisation not the religious or
cultural values that preclude Muslim-Australians from
integrating into Australian society."

The author states, "Affected by a multiplicity of poor
social and economic conditions, Muslim-Australians find a
sense of belonging and self worth within their own
communities. Unlike the larger Australian society, these
ethnic and parochial communities provide Muslim people
an anchorage and identity."

One wonders if some Muslims dress differently to most Australians because they have become marginalized or is it to marginalize themselves?

Dear Foxy,
I think that article is correct. However, I would like to further comment. There are certain cultural and religious constraints within certain groups which make it extremely difficult to get to know them let alone form a friendship. Again I am referring to the particular fundamentalists who impose the burka on their womenfolk. Just meeting for coffee in town is impossible. Inviting these women into one's home is fraught with difficulties. I really don't know what the solution is.

pro-mise/quote,,<<..One wonders if some Muslims dress differently
to most Australians because they have become marginalized..or is it to marginalize themselves?>>

is/mise..if you recall..the punks..of the eighties
or the rockers..of the sixties...or the hippies or the sharpies..even the po-mise[the bikies..the surfers..the swim team..ALL SELF IDENTIFY..their goup mind think..by how.they..look.

WHAT WE LOOK LIKE..yells out to the world
see i am a bush-man..im a horse norse man..or an indian..lor a muslim

our external..look ..is DETERMINED..by our inne4r being

but it runs more than..that..so much is herd identity..inbred
into..our very being..we truly exclude all other

no where is this more apparent..than..in..the animal
and plant..kingdoms..a tulip..only fertilizes a tulip
and ducks only mate with drakes..and mosquito suck blood

dont let looks like fool you
only guide you..not lead you astray
like some can..only be known..by their smell..or words
but somehow we find that we hated..in other..we hate with-in..our selves.

so my brother..if you wanna wear the habbid..god dont forbid
plonk it upon..ya head..till ya do..we know its just you...just by how you look.

Dear Danielle,

Perhaps we need to look at the reasons as to why
Islamic fundamentalism has intensified at all - especially
at a time when we might expect the societies involved to
be moving forward toward modernisation, rather than
backward toward the traditional basics of religious
doctrine. As sociologists have observed - fundamentalist
revivals, in whatever religion, take place in times
when social changes have led to turmoil, uncertainty,
and the erosion of familiar values. When people find themselves
confused, threatened, or even appalled at changing
conditions. They may see a "return to basics" as a
solution. Also, the solidarity of any community is
enhanced if it perceives a common outside threat.
What the solution to all this is I also don't know.
This problem arises out of specific social and cultural
conditions - all we can hope for is that with time these
conditions will change and in turn influence the
subsequent course of social change within their
communities.