For myself, Belly, this is nothing to do with Labor, Liberal or any other political angle.

It is about the very nature of a politician who has turned doing nothing into a fine art, while happily taking our money to support his elegant lifestyle. He is a prime example of the sense of entitlement that all politicians seem to latch onto, and that has turned our entire parliamentary system into a sheltered workshop for money-grubbing nonentities.

Frankly, I'm amazed you can even bring yourself to including him in the Labor pantheon. If you can find one example of his relationship with traditional Labor values, that he actually followed through on rather than just spruiking, I'll make an extra $50 donation to the NSW firies.

If they are putting him on a pedestal Belly, they must be damn short of heroes. It will have to be a already rotting wooden one to suit the man.

I have always found him an arrogant sanctimonious fool, so full of his own importance he actually started to believe his own bulldust.

It is quite obvious it was only ever his cunning that got him elected to anything, most definitely not his ability.

Cunning leaders?

Sun Tzu and Machiavelli would smirk approval.

However, they would also stipulate that such cunning *must* be used for the benefit of "the people".
Something no mainstream pollie has done for decades.
Their cunning is used to undermine our nation, to the benefit of "others" (globalism, multiculturalism).

Cunning pollies, the "enemy" is not your own people.

Sun Tzu and Machiavelli would have their bags packed in readiness for a sudden midnight carriage ride.

I good jest but remain closely linked to truth using that word in relation to both sides of politics.
Make reference to rats and toilets and still be in the same field as truth, maybe riding on its shoulder.
But finding a reason to set the dogs on Carr and the ALP for his use of the word is funny and quite wrong.
History will see the Carr I do, a life long association with the Scouting movement, an author of merit and the man who gave my state both good government and more National Parks than any one
And too a man who held his government together never giving an inch to the NSW FILTH.

That is the whole point of the cunning thing Belly.

He bought the green vote with those unfunded national parks, turned good forestry into vermin infested jungle, which is now burning.

If that is good government Carr style, god save us from it.

They should turn him over to the people who've lost homes, because he made fires in those areas unfightable.

Thanks heaps Bob

Carr is a bad man and we are better off without his ugly face in ours. He was power crazy control freak and his marriage was a good example of what not to do if you are a true Australian.