Dear SPQR,

Bob Carr as news reports testified at the time -
did not "see through it all" he merely used
statements that he thought would give his Party a
political advantage to help win the election at
that time. And according to given statistics by
government departments - what Carr was spruiking
was simply not accurate. News coverage told us the
same thing as well. The stats contradicted his
statements. You can Google this information for yourself
as it is available on the web.

Certainly, there are people who will and do abuse the
system, however they are not the majority as some people
want to claim.

As for accusations of one's feet being "set in concrete,"
I guess that insult can apply to quite a few on this
forum, especially those who are set in their own beliefs
and choose to ignore the facts when presented.
I guess that's life. Also, as we've argued in the past -
it also depends on where one gets one facts from - some
sources are more accurate and objective than others as
we know. Still the ABS and Immigration Department facts
are as reliable as we can get.

Regarding medical conditions in these processing centres
on the islands - there was a very good program some time ago
that showed an interview with an older Scottish male medical practitioner.
I believe it was on Christmas Island - who was very adamant
and upset at the lack of property care and the medical
shortages that existed. Medical supplies were greatly lacking,
and as he stated, if someone got sick, they were in trouble.

This somehow contradicts the picture that's currently being
presented - which should make all of us question whether this
is indeed a beat up.

Well, quite, SPQR.

>>Just check budget paper and ministerial briefings etc<<

Don't forget, your statement was "it equals BILLIONS of taxpayers dollars each year".

What you have pointed out is only one part of the equation.

Let's work through it a bit, shall we, rather than pretend that the screaming headlines tell the whole story.

>>Across all its operations, the department had contracts worth more than $8 billion last year.<<

Fair point. But where does that money go, exactly?

Into the economy, that's where. It provides employment for thousands. Those thousands pay tax, and cycle their money through other parts of the economy - food, housing, manufacturing etc. - that ultimately feeds our country's growth and development. The net impact on the taxpayer needs also to take into account how much you would pay in welfare to those who would otherwise be unemployed, in the absence of those contracts.

You are also ignoring those who are already, or will become, profitably employed taxpayers themselves.

Try to think of the money as an investment in our country's future. It helps.

Foxy,

<<Bob Carr as news reports testified at the time-
did not "see through it all" he merely used
statements that he thought would give his Party a
political advantage to help win the election at
that time>>
But why would saying what he did give him political advantage?
Because, he was confirming --'fessing up to --what the majority of well informed sources had been saying for a very loooooooog time.
The system was being abused in a big way.

PS: The sources you rely on don't count as "news" sources.
Your sources don't actually gather news, they edit & rewrite it to suite their narrow agenda.

<<And according to given statistics by
government departments - what Carr was spruiking
was simply not accurate.>>
How so?
You're surely not alluding to the 97% approval levels after Oz taxpayer funded appeals -surely not?
That was exactly what Carr was criticizing/debunking --a case of willy-nilly rubber stamping anyone who told a good story.Why, that approach even rubber stamped many who had been rejected by the UN in Indonesia --if the UN in Indonesia doesn't pass you, never-mind, hop a boat to OZ and resit an easier test! --LOL


<<Certainly, there are people who will and do abuse the
system, however they are not the majority as some people
want to claim.>>
Everyone--EVERYONE- of the middle easterners coming to us via boat have set out with the intention of abusing the system:
1)They flew into either Malaysia or Indonesia
2)They lied to immigration officials (in either Indo or Malay) about their intentions
3) They ditched their papers but significantly not their mobile phones
4) They conspired with criminal people smugglers.

<<Regarding medical conditions in these processing centres...>>
Red herring alert!
Whoa-up, the issue here is NOT about conditions in the centres.
That was introduced by WmTrevor in his ploy to side track things!

Nice to chat with you.

Cheers!

Woohooo Pericles

I think Philips actually made the statements you're attributing to me( though in truth I do agree with much of it)!
But it's only proper that I should let him have first crack at a response.

Cheers!

Apologies for the misattribution, SPQR.

>>Woohooo Pericles I think Philips actually made the statements you're attributing to me( though in truth I do agree with much of it)!
But it's only proper that I should let him have first crack at a response.<<

In my defence, it was an easy mistake to make.

But please, don't wait - have a crack.

Dear SPQR,

If you're really interested in the facts about Bob Carr's
statements and the reasons behind those statements you
should as I suggested to you earlier Google the information
on the web. It was fully covered by sources such as
The Sydney Morning Herald, The Age, The Australian, The ABC,
to name just a few. As for accurate stats on refugees -
try the ABC and DIAC sources.

Also the Tony Jones interview with Bob Carr on Lateline
will help clarify for you what political advantage Bob
Carr was trying to pursue.

I'm pleased that you'fe finally enjoying "chatting" with
me. It seems that we are making some progress.
Yay!