The principle of National Service, some type of Land Army
or similar, would no doubt be the answer for the "terminally unemployed" as most of them are either people with social
handicaps, or simply do NOT want to find a job for reasons
known only to themselves.

A person can be trained for a multitude of occupations over
a period of two years, if this training is applied as it was
in the earlier times ( eg : National Service era), but of course
there is sure to be the odd "drop-out"(drop-kick),who will
refuse to be helped by this system, however he and his type
can be utilized cleaning the sides of roads (under supervision of course, to avoid sloping off, failure to attend, etc)

I am NOT advocating that the unemployed be simply exploited as "cannon fodder" by the war-machine, however the scheme would
be very benificial by instilling a reasonable sense of responsibilty
and self-discipline in persons seemingly lacking in these important
fundamentals, required by any succesful society.

The alternative option of continuing as we are today, can only
result in total collapse of the unemployment benefit system, due
to what will have to be strict fiscal restraints, applied by whichever Government to try to reduce our appalling defict, which
is now becoming very apparent!

Dear Individual,

<<Well, that'll make them salespeople then won't it ? For that they'll need to pay tax.>>

Assuming they will report it... you currently don't need to pay tax on those low levels of income. We are talking about just a portion of "newstart" income (well they still need to eat something) while the tax threshold is currently $18200.

- or they could simply "share a meal" directly, exchanging food for grog.

So here goes the 'cat-and-mouse' game, round #3. Perhaps you, the spectators, would like to bet on who wins: will the cat be able force the mouse to work in the end, or will the mouse have his cheese anyway?

Meanwhile the cat jumps wildly around, whiskers and Cheshire smiles seemingly flying in all directions at once, also knocking down and breaking dozens of bottles of milk and jars of cream as he whizzes.

Large contingents of police fly over in helicopters, using the most modern, cutting-edge infra-red surveillance gadgets to ensure that dole'ies do not exchange goods with the work'ies. Specially-employed doctors and nurses keep taking random blood and urine samples, constantly testing in specially-built labs to make sure that nothing but the supplied foods has entered the bodies of dole'ies while no supplied foods entered the bodies of the work'ies. Same for clothing and shelter, an army of clerks keeps checking that the dole'ies actually wear what they were given and stay in the public-housing apartments they received. Another contingent of university professors and social workers are paid to write volumes upon volumes of memos and procedures on how to better enforce the 'no-exchange' policy.

Each of the above 'special forces' receives over 10 "newstart"s in salary, especially if they had to relocate to a remote area for that job.

Any idea how much all these measures cost us, the tax-payers?

Why not just give the poor fellows their money and forget about them? so much can be saved!

Well Yuyutsu, sounds like you are an expert in methods of avoiding pulling your weight.

Middle eastern extraction old chap?

Dear Hasbeen,

<<Well Yuyutsu, sounds like you are an expert in methods of avoiding pulling your weight.>>

Thanks for the compliment, I always like helping others beating the system.

I just wonder what's that expression doing here, "pulling your weight", appearing for the first time on this thread.

So far we discussed the issue of whether, and if so how, should the state help those who do not earn money to feed themselves. It was never mentioned till now that the people being discussed necessarily do not pull their weight. They could help others in so many ways - their families and extended families of course, but they could also be caring for others in the community, they could possibly devote their time and efforts to help elderly and sick people; or to provide informal education to children; or to make peace in their neighbourhood; or console the dying and distressed; or produce nice and useful products, freely given out to others in need. They could perhaps give free legal or medical or sports-training or musical advice, etc. They could even be the JP sitting for free in your local library to sign your documents.

The only difference could be that those people, who contribute at least as much to society as anybody else, refuse to be formally employed for money, perhaps because they rather maintain their independence and avoid situations where their boss orders them to do things which they find unethical, or perhaps because they are not willing to play the dirty game of formal qualifications, perhaps because they know better than others how to help effectively and efficiently without bureaucratic disturbance. Perhaps because they have no heart to charge money from their needy clients.

I wonder: do you consider only those who earn money (ethically or otherwise) in formal employment and participate in the official economy as good and worthy people?

yes i think that too and belly i agree with you. I know that there are many unemployed but the hardest thing that an economy can face is that the disguise unemployable. If a person with the degree is not wiling to work then there is no way to boost the economy but too depend upon the foreign labor.

Good swerve there Yuyutsu, you managed to avoid answering with all that gobbledygook.

I know it might come as a surprise to you, but quite a few of us do these things "on the side". Yes we come home from earning our own living, then do our community.

A little list of ours.

1/ JP sitting at home.
2/ Rural watch coordinator, [community watch in the bush].
3/ Secretary then treasurer of little athletics.
4/ Treasurer of pony club
5/ Secretary of irrigators comity, member of regional water advisory comity.
6/ Original coordinator of the in school apprenticeship scheme.
7/ Co founder & coordinator of the high school P&C textbook hire scheme, which puts $170,000 into the school each year.

So old chap, we do a bit of that community stuff around here, but don't believe that entitles us to expect someone else should pay our bills for us.

No one, & I mean no one has any right to expect others to pay their way for them.

Yes we do hire some people to do jobs for us. People like cops defense forces, teachers, & prime ministers, & that is our choice.

Others who want a hand out should ask, nicely, accept the decision of the taxpayer, & be prepared to do what ever is asked of them to justify the handout