Sustainability, so what do you guys consider as a sustainable Australia.

Surely, given you're so passionate about the subject, you must have a idea of what is sustainable.

Hi there SPINDOC...

I can only echo much of what several others have said herein about you. It would be very nice if we all could shed our public persona and speak without fear or favour. Unfortunately the world in which we live won't permit such candour and sincerity, thus we need to conceal much of our emotions and feelings for fear of ridicule and being taken advantage of.

Yes, we humans are a curious lot really with all our pretence, posturing, and deception. Funny thing, there are some amongst us who can actually see us for who and what we are. Despite all the masquerading we go on with ! Still I suppose that's what makes life doubly interesting, I guess.

Your belief that as a consequence of 'showing your hand' so to speak, you've rendered yourself open to all manner of derision and mockery may be unsubstantiated, and even if it does occur, so what ? Those who choose to attack others for speaking the truth, exposing a belief, they're nothing but banal and vapid stereotypes. So it's not worth expending the energy thinking about them.

You're to be admired SPINDOC, not mocked !

the alp is heading the same way as the liberal party (ie down the drain). Western society that was once founded on honesty and truth taken from Scripture is now becoming more and more corruptible. The complete failure at life at the personal level as shown by many pollies on all sides of politics is now working out in public life. Lies about climate, jobs for the girls, covering gross acts by trade unionist, running up huge debt while promising to be fiscal conservatives are all just symptons of fallen corrupt people in power. I am not sure if the Liberal party is that far behind in that regard. The Nationals had no problem endorsing someone to run against winsdor who was tied up with the NSW labour grubs. as we give people power who can't keep a marriage vowel, who think they are a law to themselves, push lies such as man made gw, steal money from those working hard, promote perverted lifestlyes through the national broadcasters, promote schools with godless values you can be sure that western governments are heading the same way as the Roman empire.
Who knows, people may come to repentance for their self deception, self indulgence and godless ways but it would take a huge awakening. People will be dumb enough to ask why are teens suiciding at record levels, why the sexual perversion, why the violence, why the breakdown of society. Nothing could be more obvious.

spindoc,

I've really been at a loss for words this evening. It's so rare on forums for us to lower our defences. We forge our alliances and berate our opponents, usually to gain a modicum of kudos from both.

I'm interested in the fact that you felt so vulnerable - and yet, what you received was support, not derision.

I do think it's often difficult for us to render ourselves vulnerable, whichever way the condition presents itself. For the record, I don't believe that talking candidly and kindly is letting your guard down. On the contrary, when directed at people with whom one usually finds themselves at loggerheads, it takes strength of character to divest oneself of antagonism and replace it with caring courtesy.

Rare to see around here - so well done!

I don't know how to placate Belly's heartbreak.

I suspect that the ALP in its present form may have gone by its use-by date. I'm incline to think that operating within the modern paradigm has made it lose its way. The labour movement is always at its zenith when its cause is great.

Strangely enough, it often takes a substantial operative degeneration to provide for the evolution of a vigorous hybrid - one which is pertinent to its moment in history.

Nothing could be more obvious.
runner,
That's about the gist of it all. In my LG organisation we have a top-heavy Labor management system which is breaking our organisation yet still they refuse to acknowledge their failure. All we on the ground can do is to watch our little show fall over in slow motion with every little detail plainly visible. Yet it is not Labor's fault in their eyes. We are Labor heavy & we have no future. We're probably very similar to the whole country.

Belly, this country owes a great debt to The Australian Labor Party, I say that with sincerity. Without the ALP and its industrial arm the trade union movement many of the benefits that we take for granted today would never have been realised. The ALP has provided leadership when called upon in times of war and peace. Great statesmen have lead the party, and consequently the country. In the past it has been Labor that gave a voice to the voiceless, and it was the Labor Party that showed the necessary compassion to help all Australians, many that the conservatives simply cast aside as economically nonviable. Labor has done far more for the Australian people than that mealy mouthed, pathetic bunch of conservatives will ever be able to claim.
However, most of the above is in the past, and sadly times have changed. Once upon a time The ALP was a political party with purpose and direction, we all clearly knew what it stood for and we all knew where it was headed. Today I see a party divided, a party that lacks purpose and a party that has lost its core principles. If Labor does not reform by introducing democracy within, and does not return to its core values I do not see a long term future for the party in modern Australia, certainly no future as a pale imitation of its conservative enemies. Factional disintegration will lead to, hopefully, a 'new' party of the left, one that takes the best of the old ALP and combines it with the needs of a sustainable modern Australia.