I need to say the ALP has some great and good folk in the house it too has put great policy,s in place.
Mixed with the dead hand of Gillard, how dare her supporters tell us she is one strong lady?
When did strength over take intelligence as a required measure.
Crean, after a recent total change from her slug like follower, is setting him self up, may even get my support, as leader post train wreck.
What future for the party on 15/9/13?
Can it be the begged for reform dies with our party, Shorten is a product of the current system, will be be able to cut the legs from under the suits lined ten deep to feed on both movements?
Who wants a party that gifts 50 in every hundred votes to unions.
Tell me why 22% of us are union members but 50% control my party.

Belly you can't rebuild the current labor party, it is too slimy to work with. Like all slime, it runs off the shovel back into the pit, when you try to dig it out.

For gods sakes man, go get that man Turnbull you love so much, grab whatever is worthwhile from Labour, & start a new party. If Turnbull is not up for it, at least you have learnt he is a useless self serving slob, as many of us have believed for years.

Luddy now you do have me worried mate. Carr is bad enough, but Faulkner & Latham to rebuild anything. The Hindmarsh island man, who wanted lies sealed in an envelope to be accepted as evidence in court. God help us mate. And Latham, a destroyer definitely no builder.

Then you use that word again, sustainability, a totally meaningless word suitable only for the chattering classes to throw around around dinner parties, or a university hall.

You have your idea of what it means, I'm sure mine is somewhat different, I'll bet they are both different to david f's, & bear little resemblance to the meaning some who will attend his public forum would apply.

That some would apply the word to that total stuffup, the Murry Darling Basin Plan, proves the fairies have escaped again, & need to be rounded up, to be returned to the institution.

Hi there BELLY old Chap...

Ordinarily, if I were to witness a Labour stalwart so thoroughly disillusioned with his Party, I'd probably snigger away to myself quietly with a sense of '...I told you so...'.

Yet with you BELLY, somehow I can't ? You've always impressed me as a very sincere individual, a resolute aficionado of the Labour cause. Regularly proclaiming all those qualities, virtues and objectives your Party has cherished since time in memorial.

Champion of the worker, prepared always to stand up against those oppressive, ruling class tyrants, who are the bosses ! With that famous Labour tenet as their enduring dictum - '...a fair days work for a fair days pay...'.

If you can draw any comfort from what's happening to your own Party, just take a quick look at the Liberals ? Who's actually running the show over there ? Tony Abbott or Malcolm Turnbull ?

There's no doubt, there are those in federal Labour, who should be thrown so far out of the Party, they'll never be heard from again. Including your alienating PM and her schismatic Deputy. Start with those two, and you'll be on the way to cleaning up the mess that's paralysing the Labour Party at the moment.

And just a personal thought BELLY. You could do worse than electing Simon Crean into the position of PM. What are your thoughts on that suggestion ?

Hi Belly, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. You have every right to be both proud of your union affiliations and bitterly disappointed at the current betrayal of your feelings.

Believe it or not I was once an official for a UK union for engineers and yes, I did have cause during negotiations to twice act to withdraw labor. In those days the union officials were very much part of the workforce they represented. We worked along side each other, we knew each other, we shared mutual trust, openness and most of all loyalty.

Management had a great deal of respect for the membership and representatives because above all else we worked together as a team to get things done to the satisfaction of all parties, for us and not them.

I remain a firm believer that these conditions must exist if negotiations are to be conducted in good faith, openness and honesty.

My employer was very supportive and enrolled me in diploma courses such as Industrial Psychology, Interpersonal Communications, Negotiating Skills, Decision Making and Leadership.

Our trade union came to the party and offered me and many like me, a place in their negotiation skills training titled “Power Negotiations”. To my great alarm the courseware was titled “Soviet Negotiation- Niet”, (Russian for NO).

Of all the techniques and principles available to union negotiators at that time, the only thing the new elite union leadership was interested in was a very narrow and confrontational negotiation style.

These new union officials of the “leadership elite class” who had never worked in any industry let alone ours circulated the membership about the negatives of having professional management types close to the membership such as me. They poisoned the well and I eventually declined to stand as an elected representative.

I mention this because I think you will already have seen these processes take place over several decades within your own union membership.

Cont’d

Cont’d

This was 40 years ago and this process has continued inexorably for decades. The net result is that the unions to which we once belonged and the ALP you once loved no longer exist, they are changed forever. The only thing that has remained true, are the trust, openness and most of all loyalty within the membership. These values no longer exist anywhere else.

This is particularly sad because it is the union membership that created the unions and subsequently their political arm, the ALP. It is also sad because the new breed of union officials have used and abused the values and collective strengths of the union membership for personal/political gain rather than serving the interests of that membership. They have made the membership the means for their personal progress and the membership has become the victims.

I don’t wish to get into the usual ideological differences with you. I say these things because I have experienced the grinding change of ownership of the movement I think we both admire. I say this because I don’t want you to feel you have to defend that in which you believe. I am definitely not trying to provoke you into a response. What I am trying to do is demonstrate that I am expressing the values of the trade union movement we both once knew, shared and valued.

I get the feeling sometimes that you hold yourself and many like you, responsible in some small way for what has happened to the trade unions you rightly value so highly.

I am fully aware that by being open and honest with you, I am exposing myself to ridicule and accusations of insincerity, but you will know what I’m saying is from the heart and a deep understanding of the membership. The greatest compliment you could pay me, in spite of all the dialogue we have previously had, is to accept the respect and understanding I offer you in this post and to say nothing in response.

Regards,

Spindoc.

P.S, o sung wu, nicely put, my unequivocal sentiments. Thanks.

spindoc,

It's a shame you feel that you are exposing yourself to ridicule and accusations of insincerity....

That's the best post I've read from you, because it comes from the heart - and I think articulates well a frustration with changes in Labor and the labour movement.