Stop squirming SM. You say a "lie" has been told, I say it hasn't. It's not up to me to prove you right.

A further quote from Graeme M's website which he used to "nail" me:

"Climate change is a global problem that requires a global solution. All countries will experience climate change impacts, and have an interest in preventing rising temperatures and taking action to better cope with any impacts. Australia is the world's 15th largest emitter of greenhouse gases, producing more greenhouse gas emissions than at least 170 other countries. Australia also produces more emissions per person than other developed countries. **Australia generates 1.5 per cent of global greenhouse gas emissions so our actions alone cannot avert the worst consequences of climate change.** Helping to shape a global climate change solution is one of the Australian Government's highest priorities.**It is one of the three pillars of Australia's comprehensive response to climate change along with efforts to reduce domestic emissions and adapt to climate change impacts."

Stop squirming, SM and say what Labor spokesperson has said Australia alone can avert/mitigate climate change or what official Government website claims this?

Well LF I think if I spent a little time on the challenge I could probably find such a statement but it's largely irrelevant. Labor has chosen to act strongly in favour of taking action on climate change. I do not fault them for that - governments must act on the best advice to hand.

However I DO think it's grandstanding to make Australia a leader in the game. This simply exposes Australia - a small nation and hardly influential in the broader stakes - to all of the risk for none of the return. As you clearly accept, Australia acting alone will make no difference to the climate.

Yet the carbon tax IS sold very strongly in terms of its necessity to combat climate change. SM is right - without global action we will see little mitigation of the projected impact of climate change.

Really, much of Labor's policy is about getting Australia ahead of the game in an economic and business sense so that when the rest of the world follows suit, we will be already there and hence in a much better position to compete in the world market.

But... what if the rest of the world DOESN'T move so quickly or effectively? And this is a question I'd like to see answered objectively because I find it hard to establish the truth. From my reading, it isn't really happening. The European carbon market is almost dead in the water, Germany is pulling back from its deep investment in green technology, the Eurozone's real concern is just staying solvent, America is making noises but hasn't really committed and China is paying lip service whilst engineering a huge boom in manufacturing and energy production to fuel its massive social migration into the 21st century. To say nothing of India.

Is the carbon tax and the Clean Energy Future really a bold step or will it be a foolishly naiive error of judgement? I suspect the latter.

Good Lord LF "Australia is the world's 15th largest emitter of greenhouse gases, producing more greenhouse gas emissions than at least 170 other countries. "

So we are worse than say Fiji? Can you post some figures around what exactly the tonnage per annum for Australia is when compared to the other 15? Geez, the other 14 would be nearly every other major industrialised nation!

Serious question because I've never actually seen Australia's output directly compared to the other 14...

LF,

I said a lie has been "perpetrated" I did not say a lie has been "told".

Before you get your knickers in a twist and start tilting at windmills, perhaps you should pick up a dictionary and look at the deliberately broad definition included in the statement. Then perhaps you will understand the irrelevance of your request for documentary proof.

For those illiterates, labor is deliberately trying to create the false impression that there is a direct link between controlling Australia's emissions and impacting climate change in Australia. To see what I am saying you only need to listen to any Labor MP being interviewed on the carbon tax.

I made a statement, if you challenge it, the onus of proof is on you.

Hmmm... just toddled off and had a look at the figures. As that quote of LF's says, Australia proiduces around 1-1.5% of the world's CO2 emissions. The big players are (based on 2010 figures I found) China at around 25%, USA 16% and India at 6%.

Now I am sure many of you here already knew that, but I didn't. So clearly, without the other 14 countries not named in that quote - or more exactly, the top 5 countries - doing anything, Australia's CO2 tax will have no effect at all.

So the big question is - will Australia's lead play a substantial part in leading those countries to enact serious mitigation strategies? What evidence is there that China, the US and India are following our lead in any meaningful way?

What a huge problem for the left.

Russian scientists are warning, & the countries official position is that we are, right now, entering the next little or full ice age.

China is not about to say they agree, not while the west is stupid enough to keep shooting itself in the foot, buying their solar panels & windmills, but their policies show they do.

I wonder if some of these AGW fools will still be proclaiming it's getting hotter, as they chip the ice off their lives made so much harder by the waste of the carbon tax, & alternate non-generating systems.