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The Forum > General Discussion > The Choice

The Choice

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Dear Individual,

<<that's all fine but you're still evading the main gist of the questions. How to deal with those who keep bludging?>>

Well, that's a trick question, the like of "have you stopped beating your wife?", damned if you say 'yes' and damned if you say 'no'. I do not perceive people who receive welfare without the will to be employed as 'bludging' in the first place.

Nevertheless, perhaps you are referring to the ugly issue that such people need to lie in order to survive, to pretend to be looking for work. If so, then I have already offered a solution:

My solution is that EVERYONE (including those who are working or have other income) should receive the same basic welfare benefit, unconditionally and with no questions asked.
No questions means no lying and cheating!

That can be achieved by merging the welfare and tax systems, simplifying both.

The tax system should be based on only two numbers: the welfare amount and the tax-rate. The actual numbers are open for discussion, but as an example I'll just throw in $13K p.a. (based on current 'newstart') and 30% (based on current company-tax).

Those who are in need may receive their welfare-money in weekly/fortnightly payments. The rest of us will receive it in our annual tax-return.

So depending on your income, here is the amount of tax you will pay:

$0 (unemployed): $-13000
$20000: $-7000
$40000: $-1000
$60000: $5000
$80000: $11000
$100000: $17000
...

Along, out-the-window go most tax-evasion schemes (because the tax-rate is flat and the same for everyone, individuals, trusts and companies alike); minimum-wage laws; Centerlink; many government positions that were needed to administer the current complexity; compulsory superannuation; most if not all tax-deductions and rebates; and what's most relevant to this particular discussion - the financial disincentive for those on the "dole" to start working: any extra dollar they earn by finding a casual or part-time job, ends up as 70 cents in their pocket.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 1 April 2013 1:58:30 PM
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Yuyutsu,
I tend to lean towards a kind of agreement there however, I'm totally against bracketing tax as it is discriminatory to those at the lower part of the bracket. If you want absolute fairness re paying tax you need to look at flat tax. Zero discrimination period !
Those who don't want to look for employment get drafted until they want to find employment.
There's too small a gap or indeed if any at all between welfare & minimum wage & that is the primary cause. There needs to be a substantial difference to make people weigh up the pros & cons of welfare vs menial job. Unfortunately, we won't get any move on that as long as our public service is saturated with pseudo academics.
Posted by individual, Monday, 1 April 2013 3:06:42 PM
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Dear Individual,

My suggestion has no tax breaks - it's a flat tax of say 30%.

If the income is I, the tax-rate is R and the welfare is W, then the tax is:

T = R*I - W

Which can be positive or negative.

The motivation behind my suggestion is to remove coercion and cheating from the system, not to re-introduce them through the other door. When someone is dishonest, they would convince you that they are looking for employment and whatever else you like to hear so they have their way, always full of excuses, then it would be the honest guys who suffer, especially those who will tell the truth: "I won't take this job because it is unethical" rather than lie that "my back hurts because I slipped on my grandma's wet floor".

There is no evil greater than conscription. Before immigrating to Australia I enquired and verified with the Australian consul that not only there is no conscription in Australia, but he assured me that it is even illegal to do so. Otherwise I wouldn't have come here, nor would I remain here for one moment if it were otherwise (so don't count on my taxes if they are to pay for forced drafting).

On a second thought, if supporting those who have no other income (but are not willing to be employed) with your tax money is so unpalatable for you, then you should be able to get an exemption, so long as I can also get an exemption from supporting so many other things that the government does which are unacceptable to me and directing it instead into welfare. It would be best if we could mark on our tax-returns what our tax-money should go into.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 1 April 2013 6:26:53 PM
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It would be best if we could mark on our tax-returns what our tax-money should go into.
Yuyutsu,
quite many posts ago I advocated exactly that. No bites from anyone though.
Posted by individual, Monday, 1 April 2013 9:03:29 PM
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