Belly & Phillip S, settle down children. We all can put in writing or say something that was OK in our head but it comes out wrong, however well intentioned. So leave off, you two. We have a greater enemy afoot.

Belly - I would like to remind you of something you posted before, Quote "Philip s it has been my intention to avoid you and you heated posts from your first day here."

Also you still have not acknowledged that maybe you were wrong insofar as my reply was directly below where you asked for a link a link was not provided because it was to a pdf file which some browsers can't open therefore the person looking had there choice of links.

Sorry Jayb I am not christian enough to turn the other cheek to have that verbally bashed again.

Dear Jay,

I'm so sorry to hear of your accident.
It does sound painful. I trust that you'll
get better soon and
that you won't be in too much pain for long.

Take care and All The Best.

All power to you too, Lexi....Get well soon : )

Jay - Ouch! - hope it heals quickly.

Dear Froggie,

No need to apologise, there continues to be plenty of distractions here.

I get a feeling we are getting closer to thrashing this thing out so happy to persist.

I do think the majority of our immigrants would prefer to leave sectarian and ethnic animosities behind them when they flee to our country. The second generation do not have the more visceral traumatic memories that lead their parents to uproot themselves and their families.

I would venture to say most of those involved in this incident; http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Tennis-Open-marred-by-ethnic-violence/2007/01/15/1168709659874.html

were probably second generation. Do we take incidents like these as an excuse to ban future Serbian migration to our country or do we quickly react by taking steps within our sporting codes and our policing to temper and defuse tensions.

Let us look at the London bombings which you used to claim “These young men, even though born in England, were not integrated at all. In other words, their religion and culture came first in their minds.”.

Firstly only three of the four were born in the UK, the fourth Germaine Maurice Lindsay “was born in Jamaica and had lived in Dalton, West Yorkshire, following his arrival from Jamaica at age five, where he attended Rawthorpe Junior School and Rawthorpe High School. A carpet fitter, he subsequently moved to Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_Lindsay

He converted to Islam in his teens.

From what I read of the others it would be hard to claim they were not to a large extent also integrated into English society before their radicalisation.

It is pretty clear that the fight should always be against the poison peddlers of whom the radicalisers are the worst, most extreme example.

There is a case to be made, admittedly tenuous, that John Howard was part of the radicalisation of Anders Brevik. Equally there is a case to be made that Andrew Bolt is part of the radicalisation of the young lad who was the subject of my original post.

We have to recognise it, condemn it when we see it and act when it crosses the line.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2829059.stm

Cont..

Cont..

You say “Therefore I support free speech, even that of people who promulgate detestable ideas.” but isn't it disingenuous to demand we keep out of this county those who may use that free speech to promulgate ideas that are detestable to us so we can claim we are 'unreservedly' in favour of the idea of free speech?

I feel neither of us are denying there is a problem, it is just our assessments differ on the causes and of where the solutions lie. I want for my country the continuing acceptance of peoples from different cultural and religious backgrounds, an acceptance which is admired around the world. What I don't want us doing is importing fly in fly out radicalisers like Wilders and al-Sudais.

And if the notion of the absolute right to free speech needs to be tempered slightly to ensure our youth are not the victims of the poison peddlers then that discussion needs to occur.

Now I just have to get use to the idea that Belly could even contemplate he is middle of the road on this issue. Got my work cut out there.