Last week 'social media' brought this in to my house.

“Islam and Muslims are a f-cking cancer of this earth! Slowly infecting every country in the world because they've f-cked up theirs, I'm sick of hearing about them. I would rather behead as many as possible and spend the rest of my life in jail than bend over backwards for those disgusting c-nts! There is more freedom in prison than there is living life under sharia law”

“The atomic bombings of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki quietened the japs down in the mid 40's i think history should repeat its self and wipe these disgusting cretins out”

“I just wish the world would wake up. Hitler should of put all of them in the ovens instead”

What has got this young country lad so fired up that he would end up using this sort of language?

It was this news report;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9875954/Muslim-preacher-urges-followers-to-claim-Jihad-Seekers-Allowance.html

“The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach, the clerics talking about claiming England for themselves, none of them work they just collect welfare and expect us to give it to them but as soon as we show some resistance WE ARE THE C-NTS! WHAT THE F-CK?!”

So a report about a crackpot, so called Muslim cleric, half the world away, talking to a 'crowd' of 30 people, has this aussie lad ready to behead, nuke or gas and cremate all Muslims?

What the hell? How has it come to this?

He would have seen some beat-up report on one of our 'current affairs' programs or perhaps one of Bolt's offerings and he is now voicing extremist views that are on a par with those he is condemning.

Who would claim this is healthy for our nation, for who we think we are, for the ideals we say we stand for?

Those who propagate this sort of poison to sell advertising or push agendas need to be held accountable, including those on these very forums.

csteele I would say he certainly is the most sociable person and his words are very extreme.

I will ask you one question who would you rather have as a neighbor him or Anjem Choudary on his Jihad Seeker’s Allowance.

At first you may say Anjem Choudary but after a few years and you play spot the Aussie in your area I will bet you change your mind. (especially if you have any daughters)

Dear Phillip S,

An inane question from you.

I compare Choudary to Fred Phelps Snr, neither of whom I would want as neighbours.

Last night I had a Muslim gentleman at my kitchen table. A top bloke, loves his mates and four wheeled driving. Two weeks ago he married his English fiancee, also a Muslim and once she finishes her medical studies will moving to Australia. My wife took the photographs at the wedding.

Both he and the lad I referred to earlier live fairly close by. You can probably guess which one I would rather have at my table.

I have absolutely no problem with him around my daughters but I worry for others in my community who might been exposed to your message of distrust, a pure example of fear mongering promoting division rather than unity, and how they might treat by him.

I see the actions you take in your continuous vilification as a direct threat to what this country stands for and how we view ourselves. You are part of the machinery that is radicalising our youth. It is dangerous, self serving and has the potential to wreak havoc on my society.

I am asking that you take a step back and really consider what you are doing. For all I know you may be as much a victim of our media as this young lad and when I get the chance I will be having some words with him.

csteele, "Last week 'social media' brought this in to my house"

There is your problem. Trolls on social media are not representative of the population. Yet you are trying to make that comparison. Some might say that is trolling too.

csteele - The question was not as you put it "inane" except in your mind.

Quote "For all I know you may be as much a victim of our media as this young lad" - No I am not but I am old enough to know the good Australia when people were safe in there houses or the streets, by comparison to now.

The problem is not all the fault of refugees but they are a significant enough factor that needs addressing. All people rioting and destroying property in the detention centers do you really want these people in Australia?

Projected arrivals for the next year 20 to 30 THOUSAND where do you think the money will come from to support them, TAXPAYERS.

What benefits or services will have to be reduced to support them?
Are you willing to have your taxes raised to support them?

We have nearly 13,000 in the community now guess who is paying for them TAXPAYERS.

How many homeless people do you see or know, now how many homeless refugees are in Australia, NONE.

Look at England and many other countries years ago now look at them IN NOT 1 HAS MULTICULTURALISM WORKED.

As I stated some are okay but this incompetent Government is unable to weed out the bad ones, there checking system does not work.

Dear onthebeach,

This incident was not from a troll but rather some heartfelt sentiments of a young chap echoed by a number of others within his friendship and relationship group.

It is pretty indicative of how far down this path we are that he felt he could do it without any reticence or embarrassment. The Bolt's and Jones' of this world have legitimised this kind of dangerous rhetoric and you are doing your bit to propagate this poison here.

Dear Phillip S,

Multiculturalism has most certainly worked in this country with different groups being able to make productive lives here without too much angst, but is under threat from the radicalisers like yourself. The Muslim gentleman I spoke of is now on very good money, paying considerable taxes and contributing to our society. You look to stoke distrust and division within my country and I condemn you for it.

I am extremely proud of that Australia holds out its hand to refugees, I am less proud of how they are now treating them but we have been able to hold our head high among the community of nations for our commitment to carry some of the load of the dispossessed and persecuted.

You want to trash that history.

Please don't give me any talk about the 'good Australia' when you clearly have little idea what that means.

I again urge you to consider your actions. Rwanda showed where unanswered denigration can lead. You are threatening my country with that.

csteele, when are you going to realize that you are a tiny minority, fighting a loosing battle.

I have two very simple questions for you, which I hope you do answer.

Q. Do you think there is a serious risk that along with any decent muslims we allow into the country, that there posses a risk that we may also 'unknowingly' allow a terrorist, or potential terrorist in as well?

Q. Now if you answer yes, then is it really worth the risk in your view, given that ONE SINGLE TERRORIST or potential terrorist IS ONE TOO MANY?

As for multiculturalism, I share the same views as Phillip, along with millions of other Australians I might add.

It appears our governments are slow learners, as I heard once that the definition of insanity, was to do the same thing over and expect a different result.

csteele - I notice there were a number of questions and point you failed to address, let me guess they were inane questions to you.
Further
Quote "Multiculturalism has most certainly worked in this country with different groups being able to make productive lives " We are talking about the recent ones THEY DO NOT WANT TO ASSIMILATE TO OUR CULTURE, they want us to adopt theirs.
I am sure some people here that live in certain suburbs would totally disagree with that statement.

Quote "I am extremely proud of that Australia holds out its hand to refugees, I am less proud of how they are now treating them but we have been able to hold our head high among the community of nations for our commitment to carry some of the load of the dispossessed and persecuted."
All I can say is you have been brainwashed, a number of countries including Israel have told the refugees not to bother they are not welcome.
So you want to hold out your hand to them 85% on welfare after being here over 5 years, nice big families like the one in your above link DOLE BLUDGING PARASITES.

Quote "You want to trash that history." They are trashing that history faster than I could.

You comparing this situation to "Rwanda" is ludicrous.

Just watch what happens to Gillard at the election, that will tell you how many people want these welfare for lifers.

Quote "Please don't give me any talk about the 'good Australia' when you clearly have little idea what that means." Now that is an inane statement.

Well lads in a couple of posts you have raised the fears of Muslims over running our neighbourhoods (in just a few years I might add) of assaulting our daughters and of being potential terrorists.

You really are committed, professional agitators aren't you. You claim comparisons to Rwanda are ludicrous yet it is not that big a leap to calling refugees cockroaches. By all accounts you have your incited, disaffected youth gathering, ready to start beheading when the time comes.

Actually I don't really think you are victims of our media, this is just your personalities. The grave danger is that your poison infects others, especially our more impressionable.

You and you ilk right now pose a far greater risk to the social cohesion of my country than any migrant ever could. I am becoming more concerned about an Australian Anders Breivik, incited by people like yourselves than I am about a Islamic terrorist act.

This has to stop. Really think about what you are doing. If you really value this country you will pull your heads in and temper the rhetoric. It is having nasty and virulent consequences and will surely end in tragedy.

Csteele, having read and reread your opening post, I am still not sure whether you are against the language used, with all its expletives, or the message, or both.

If the message was delivered in cool calm language, which would be reasonable under the principle of freedom of speech, would that be ok? I’m not asking if you agree with it or not, just whether you think it would make the difference between being acceptable or not.

Could you please clarify. Thanks.

csteele - It has to be noted that you still fail to address the questions people ask of you, and any point they raise.

Quote "You and you ilk right now pose a far greater risk to the social cohesion of my country than any migrant ever could." I beg to differ in so far as I pose no threat to Australia except in your narrow field of vision.

Here are some more questions for you.
1) Can you explain why on most boats there are 95% men only - whereas in Africa Syria and other places the refugees are women & children or whole families?

2)Do you think it acceptable that they travel at great expense past and away from other countries that could offer them sanctuary but not a golden welfare for life system?

3) Do you think it acceptable that when arriving a lot do not want to learn English when the opportunity is offered therefore rendering them-self unemployable for life. (It would takes YEARS of lessons to get them to an English level of competence to allow safe employment. The English level of the majority is ZERO.

Quote "The grave danger is that your poison infects others, especially our more impressionable." NO my big fear is that there will be no future for our descendants because of them.
The budget for this financial year for them is $6 BILLION dollars this does not include the billion to keep our navy out there as a taxi service, the hundreds of millions given to the charities to look after the approx 12,900 released into the community (NOT ONE HOMELESS REFUGEE) The $2 Billion dollars for drone aircraft to patrol for them and make sure they get here safely even though they are in Indonesian waters.

Even the UN has said a lot are economic refugees.

Would you also have the same opinion you have if your daughter was one of the 6 girls sexually molested by the refugee at the Darwin swimming pool or one of the other cases well known?

It was not social media but main streem press that bought to all our doors the following this week.
The reports of two was it more? gentlemen who wrote insulting letters to the famillys of our dead soldiers.
And those nice folk who in defense of a God that, like all Gods never existed.
Tied a man down to his bed and flogged him.
While no fan of csteele, and unlikely ever to be so, I think under different circumstances he would tell me my evidence is from a small section, not the whole.
May I say the rantings of one, in a medium that see,s a great deal of that, is not evidence our country thinks that way?
And highlight that far too many think as my quoted evidence tells us?

"I had a Muslim gentleman at my kitchen table. A top bloke, loves his mates, and four wheeled driving". Csteele, would you please not make this kind of post, as Phillip S will be upset, this person does not fit his 'hate mould'
Could you please say "I had Anjem Choudary at my kitchen table, a nasty bloke, hates Australians wants to destroy the Aryan race." I know this would not be true, but it would make Phillip S feel a whole lot better.

@CSteele,

As one eyed as usual CSteele, ay!

Why is it that you were able to find sites denigrating Muslims -- and took particular exception to sites denigrating Muslims -- but apparently were not able to find a single site run by Muslims denigrating non-Muslims!

Was it:
A) There are no such sites?
[If you can't find them I can give you pointers --and Radio and TV services too--that special in just that!]

B) There are such sites –but you are only moved by happenings less than half a world away?
[hardly credible since you spend over half your posts criticising one of the parties -–and ONLY ONE of the parties--in the Middle East]

C) You are just predisposed to taking offended at anything anti-Muslim?

My money’s on option C.

And there is deep, deep irony (or HYPOCRISY!) in you being moved by someone --some anonymous avatar-- on the web calling for << Muslims [to be] behead[ed]>>, since, I can recall a recent incident --much less than half the world away --when Muslims were openly, very publicly carrying placards calling for ALL who offend the prophet to be behead.And you saw fit to not be moved – but rather to hover in the corner criticising the critics!

Come Csteele own up it. You’ve been won over by the all those stories your “Muslim gentleman” friend has been telling you over the dinner table about 72 doe eyed virgins awaiting the faithful in heaven!

Actually, we should send Anjem Choudary our sincere gratitude for his announcements. Nobody has done more damage to Islams stealth than him.
He is actually telling the truth as to Islams intentions so we can prepare for these wa##ers. And what a reception in Oz they will never forget. H#ll hath no fury like the man from Oz.

csteel, I think the point you miss is the one emphasised by Geert Wilders.
The problem is not moslems but Islam.

He suggests that moslems are a prisoner of their own religion.

The problem here is that there is a lot of confusion around this issue. First, most Muslims are born into their religion, and therefore haven't had a choice as to whether they are a Muslim or not. Secondly, there are many degrees of practice of Islam, some are devout, but many are nominal Muslims, not actually carrying out all that is required by their faith.
Having said that, those Muslims who are nominal Muslims, are largely irrelevant to the conversation. They are like the vast number of Germans who were not Nazis, but enjoyed the return of German pride, and so did not denounce the Nazi philosophy.
Our argument is and should be with Islam, not the Muslim people in general. There are many Muslims who are admirable people. It is their Islamic ideology that is the real problem, because if the fanatics have their way, un-resisted by the moderates, they will institute a political regime at least as reprehensible as the Nazis.
The young man you mention has been “fired up”, because the Governments of the West don’t seem to recognise the threat that the West is facing with the wholesale immigration of people who have little appreciation of democracy and freedom.
I’m not sure that Islam can be reformed, as the Qur’an is said to be the unalterable word of Allah. Different interpretations of it can be made, but basically it is a fascist ideology covering all aspects of life. We don’t want to import this into the West.
I believe our borders should be controlled properly, the Labor Government dismantled a system which worked well, and they are now refusing to take responsibility for the mess they have created. It is particularly poor that those they have allowed to enter the community are not allowed to work, and are expected to survive on very little money.

csteele, by 'poison peddlers; do you include all those who shout 'death to the infidel' and similar hate-threats? How about those who send their kid out with a sign 'behead those who insult the prophet'? Poison Peddlers
As for 'Last night I had a Muslim gentleman at my kitchen table', did he make you eat halal?
I bet he refused any normal food.
It's time you and your kind took off your blinkers and stopped this appeasement of people who hate us.

Austin,
Csteele hates "us" too --he's just looking for allies.

The Left criticise religion, but they use the same storytelling to sermonise as any preacher. When the facts are not there and you want the audience to suspend their critical judgement, there is nothing better than storytelling with strong emotional appeal.

In other walks of life it is called hard sell: using the psychological levers that make us human to persuade the prospect to make a quick sale.

Sorry for the absence.

Firstly thank you to OLO and Matt Bisset-Johnson for the cartoon on the front page. It hit the mark beautifully. For future readers here is the link.
http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/images/cartoon/main-page/20130304_bissettjohnson.jpg

Dear George,

You asked if I was “against the language used, with all its expletives, or the message, or both”. The expletives did not bother me, in fact to a small degree they defused what was being said. It is when these sentiments are expressed in a cool manner such as a manifesto that they become even more troubling.

So yes it is the message that we should be exterminating people that I am against, justifiably so I would have thought though you may have a different take.

However, and this is definately a selfish perspective, I deeply resent that this has reared its head in my small country community. For some reason until it presents on your door step you have the ability to downplay its impact. But it is making its way into the fabric of my society and those who are spreading its message need to be confronted and condemned.

We still have little reason to lock our car doors or often our homes, feel perfectly okay with letting our children walking to school by themselves and have little if any racial stresses here.

Now I have to contemplate the fact that there are those within my community who wish this gentleman harm purely for the reason that he is a Muslim. That the places I feel more than comfortable with being in at what ever time may now present a danger to he and his wife.

This I what I am railing against.

Dear Phillip S,

I am not going to dissect each of your conflated facts, nor your half truths nor or your outright lies on this thread. If you wanted to start another I undertake to come and do so there.

You sir are a poisoner.

Cont..

Cont..

Dear Belly,

Thank you for your contribution. I think we have taken enough skin off each other over the years here so forgive me if I don't engage your points directly.

Dear Paul1405,

If I am not upsetting Phillip S then I am not doing my job.

Dear SPQR,

If you had bothered to properly read this thread you would have seen the person I referred to was not an anonymous avatar but some one living close with whom members of my family have had regular contact.

As you were part of the conversation back then you know full well I condemned the holding up of the placard.

Dear pepper,

Yep, jingoistic clap trap is just what we need.

In England this is what Muslim writers say of Choudary.

“Our sensationalist and irresponsible media has, in fact, been deeply complicit in the rise and rise of this fanatic, devoting quite disproportionate and counter-productive coverage to his various rantings. Is Choudary an Islamic scholar whose views merit attention or consideration? No. Has he studied under leading Islamic scholars? Nope. Does he have any Islamic qualifications or credentials? None whatsoever. So what gives him the right to pontificate on Islam, British Muslims or "the hellfire"? Or proclaim himself a "sharia judge"? Will he even manage to round up enough misfits to carry the 500 coffins with him? I doubt it – Choudary and co couldn't even persuade enough people to join a "march for sharia" that they had proudly planned to hold in central London in late October, and, at the very last minute, had to humiliatingly withdraw from their own rally. Pathetic, eh?”

You instead have him at the vanguard of some huge conspiracy of 'Islamic stealth'. The term w##ker seems emminately appropriate for you both.

Cont..

Cont..

Dear Bazz,

With respect I think the point you have missed is that those who are agitating here always feel the need to import the issues from other countries. As I stated in my original post a self inflated crackpot talking to a group of 30 people half a world away has caused a local lad to go off his nana. Just look at many of the examples quoted from above and you will find them imported. The importation of Geert Wilders to further inflame our aggrieved is just an extension of this. Why can't idiots like him take his poison just leave us the hell alone?

Dear Froggie,

You said;

“wholesale immigration of people who have little appreciation of democracy and freedom.”. Oh come on mate, that sounds as if it has been read of a cue card. The rest of your post was reasonable but then you trot this out? Hell!

Dear AP,

You asked;

“csteele, by 'poison peddlers; do you include all those who shout 'death to the infidel' and similar hate-threats?”

Damn straight I do. They need to seriously pull their heads in. I don't want either version, your or theirs, poisoning my society.

And no you clown he did not make me eat Halal. I will say though the way he cooks a steak is dynamite. I had three at the last sitting. Bloody magnificent.

Dear onthebeach,

?

Dear gentlemen,

Exclusively so I think. You may have got a toehold in my community but you are little better than those you condemn. You inflate perceived international injustices to incite fear and loathing in my country. You vilify, denigrate, spread half truths and outright lies, and call for drastic isolationist measures. Perhaps you will ultimately take the day but I have enough faith in what it means to be an Australian, to be believe in fairness, and justice, and inclusion, that there will be enough fellow citizens who will reject the poison you are peddling and see you exposed for who you are.

This subject, in different forms, aways gets heated.
Some place left of Philip s RANTS,and to the right of csteele,s cuddle them all, middle Australia can be found.
We, I inhabit the latter, have concerns, not racist, well not as much as the filth sending those letters.
But we are perplexed, what chance, if I felt the need to, of me living in say Egypt, [put and Muslim country there if you will, damning the locals, constantly interfering with their rights to? be as they wish in their own country!
Lets look, at the fish hook this thread is.
So poor old csteele wants to control what is said on social media?
What? end our freedom to say as we wish?
Best go live in that part of the world that did not fight, and die, for freedom csteele.

csteele - Quote "I am not going to dissect each of your conflated facts, nor your half truths nor or your outright lies on this thread. If you wanted to start another I undertake to come and do so there."

So basically you are conceding your arguments do not stand up and others and myself are right otherwise you would challenge them.
Furthermore you say lies and half truths but you don't seem to be able to invalidate anything others or myself have stated.

Why start another thread when this one will do fine.

We, all of us, should pause, look again at the title and the very substance of this thread.
Any one, who ever put a bait net across a creek, you can do so in QLD, Knows that is what this thread is.
Feeble and unattractive way to push us to?
Underline our rightfully held views
In cleaning that net, long ago, I some times found some thing in the net that caught me.
20-20 Vision seems to convict csteele of the crime in the threads title.

"""
All poison peddlers need to be held accountable.
"""

I agree! All those that have imposed these low life parasites on hard working Aussies should be be facing the guillotine for crimes against their own.

While our own suffer through fire and flood, these illegal imports are given a life of luxury with the stolen fruits of our fellow brethren.

Perhaps if they came here to contribute to all our well being and not sponge of the system, they'd be more welcomed.

Perhaps if the poison peddlers asked nicely for our contributions rather than lie, cheat and steal from us through violence we might be a little more accommodating.

Perhaps if the poison peddlers gave our own more thought and help we would be in a better position to show a little more compassion.

You're absolutely right, csteele. All the poison peddlers need to be held accountable. and all those that would silence anyone from exercising their god given right to free speech!

Belly, "Lets look, at the fish hook this thread is.
So poor old csteele wants to control what is said on social media?
What? end our freedom to say as we wish?
Best go live in that part of the world that did not fight, and die, for freedom csteele."

Well said. csteele does precisely what he alleges of others.

and G'day to you CSTEELE, young Lad...

'All these poison peddlers need to be held account' ? To who, and for what ?

Obviously CSTEELE it's true then ? You are indeed the proponent for an autonomous Muslim Province in NSW. As well as the senior intermediary for the proposed Islamization of Australia.

My only question, is this to occur before or after your pilgrimage to Mecca ?

Your initial indignation was for some of us herein (me included) who dared to exercise their right to express an opinion, as mature Australian taxpayers, and citizens ?

Who in hell's name do you think you are CSTEELE ? I see you as an individual, being no more nor less influential than any other subscriber on this Forum ! Yet you have the temerity to proclaim to us all, that anyone on this Forum should be 'held account' for 'peddling poison' ! Or perhaps what you meant to say 'advocating an opinion contrary to that of yours' ? Oh, I'm sorry, you must remember I'm quite 'dull witted', and for awhile there I almost believed you - when in fact you're just yanking our collective chain - with a bit of CSTEELE style humour ! I should've guessed, good one, young fella, good one !

CSTEELE, you'd be a real hit down at your local RSL, I'll bet ! Would you consider visiting and addressing ours ? You'd have your audience held in awe, with your sincere desire for the ultimate Islamization of Australia, I can promise you that CSTEELE.

'The Bolt's and Jones' of this world have legitimised this kind of dangerous rhetoric and you are doing your bit to propagate this poison here. '

And who has legitimised the demonisation of free speach? The lefties who hate their hyprocrisy exposed. I say thank God for Jones and Bolt otherwise all you would get is ABC leftist propaganda dressed up in intellectualism. Thankfully the electorate has seen through such sickening lies. And what of the violent protestors that proved Wilders had a point.

Dear OSW,

The last returned soldier I spoke with had done two of tours in Helmand Province and is still undergoing treatment for injuries suffer from an IED. He has Australians who came to this country as Afghan refugees fighting in his unit. He will eyeball you straight away if you have anything derogatory to say about them. We got rather disgracefully smashed on this New Years Day with some interesting results.

But I do think you are on to something. I would wager a penny to a pound that the vast majority who have contributed on this thread are male, white, bitter, and on the sad side of middle age.

I really don't have much of a problem with you flapping your gums among yourselves but the rhetoric is starting to have a very real impact. I certainly don't claim you are among the worst offenders because you are not and even Belly flails away without too much harm, but there is some real hatred and denigration that has been spewing forth from here for a while and it needs to be checked for the good of this place and our nation.

Are the current levels of immigration and refugee intakes are sustainable? No. I think the capacity for this country to accept those in need at current levels has been damaged, not only by the media and the politicians but by the way we are managing things like our schools where the mantra of 'choice' has seen Jewish, Muslim, Catholic and other Christian private schools proliferate thus dramatically diminishing the ability of our youth mixing in public schools and setting aside prejudices that now seem to flourish.

I want a reasonable debate on the issue not one that sees recent arrivals targeted within our communities. I don't want to see young people so consumed with hatred being fed from older, bitter, white, male media personalities like Bolt and Jones. The lessons of history show us tipping points can quickly be reached with tragic results. I do not want that for my country and neither should you.

csteele writes
'are managing things like our schools where the mantra of 'choice' has seen Jewish, Muslim, Catholic and other Christian private schools proliferate thus dramatically diminishing the ability of our youth mixing in public schools and setting aside prejudices that now seem to flourish. '

Instead of looking at the hopefully flawed and failed secular humanist dogmas, csteele can't help but to push his barrow. This is typical lefist tactic which prevent them from seeing what causes problems (usually their own failed dogma) and blame others for not fixing it. Secular schools based on humanism are bereft of any morals and that is why even unbelievers are voting with their money and feet. I suspect their is far more violence and divsion in secular schools than elswhere but that would be ignored by those wanting to use of worn out mantra of the need for more money and resources. Maybe just a little discipline and a few of the good old morals that csteele seems to despise might win back a few. Lefties detest common sense showing up their dogmas.

runner,

"...good old morals..."

Haven't seen much sign of "good old morals" in evidence so far on this thread.....

Have seen a lot of bigoted myopic ranting - but that's par for the course around here.

Yes steelie, we will catch up with these peddlers of poison.

All the promoters of the global warming scam, all those committed to destroying the ethos of Australia with this multicultural poison.

Those who want to "help" the aboriginals, & those who have made an industry of do-gooding. The whole damn lot will find themselves ignored & disregarded, the worst their egos could ever suffer.

But don't worry mate, someone knows who you are.

csteele - Quote "I would wager a penny to a pound that the vast majority who have contributed on this thread are male, white, bitter, and on the sad side of middle age."

So if it is the case (I am not saying you are right) WHAT IS YOUR POINT.

Let me guess they are not allowed to have a say, unless they agree with you.

Sorry but I am still waiting for the answers to my questions and what the lies and half truths are.

By the way if something is a half truth then it means it is HALF TRUE so you still loose.

That cartoon is unfortunate. Scott Morrison is one of the most level-headed commentators on asylum seekers that this country has.

Dear csteele, twas me who asked whether you are against the language used with all its expletives, or the message or both, not George. But thanks for the response anyway.

It sounds to me as though the dropkick who posted the stuff that you quote just wants to stir, wants a bit of notoriety and doesn’t really appreciate or give a damn about who he might be offending, just as long as he offends a few people and gets a reaction!

Crikey, any nobody can post stuff like that. I really don’t think you should be concerned about it. What you need to take note of is public opinion on the issue, not some extreme load of crap peddled by someone who has got no credibility.

I agree with Bazz and Froggie – it is Islam, not Muslims or at least not the vast majority of Muslims, that is the problem.

As a Veteran myself I'll 'eyeball' anyone, and state my position and opinion anytime, notwithstanding their ethnic proclivities, either inside or outside any damn RSL. I find it quite impertinent you telling me 'to beware', lest I upset some Afghan !

As I said in one of my earlier threads, it's my own, strongly held, personal view - The lifestyle, the beliefs, and the Sharia Law of Islam, is altogether, inconsistent, incompatible and diametrically opposed, to that of our Australian values, our culture, and our way of life !

Take a ride in a Patrol vehicle. Say nothing ! Then please, simply observe, witness and learn. Perceive clearly for yourself the deleterious effects of allowing Muslims to congregate and cluster within suburban areas. Areas that they've determined as their own. These Muslim enclaves, are occupied ONLY by those who are culturally and ethnically acceptable inhabitants. Then if you will, return and lecture us all, on the benefits of multiculturalism ?

CDSTEELE, I just cannot believe how absolutely parochial or insular you are. Even someone from the far left, couldn't be nearly so, doggedly entrenched in their beliefs, then you ? Mate, you've got me buggered, you really have !

o sung wu - Here is part of a story, how long till they try this here"

Monday, January 11, at 19:30 GMT:
Is Islamic law coming to London? A series of ‘Muslim Patrol’ videos have gone viral over the past few weeks. They show a group of young men attempting to create ‘Muslim zones’ in the city. Although their actions have been condemned by the East London Mosque, they continue to patrol neighbourhoods and stop people they believe are not conforming to Islamic law.

They have been condemned by the East London Mosque but still continue to do it, this is a prime example of what Australia DOES NOT WANT.

CDSTEELE - What is your opinion of them how would you like them as your neighbors?

G'evening to you PHILLIP S...

Ah mate, please don't remind me of this, won't we ever learn ? Surely someone out there in governmentland must realise where we're heading for goodness sake ? We need only to look towards Europe, Britain even Africa to see this 'scourge' occuring everywhere ?

By simply saying we DON'T want our country, Australia reduced to a Moslem war zone ? Surely that's not being raciest ? Are we being raciest by simply saying we don't want those troubles here ?

The trouble is PHILLIP S I reckon everybody is scared ? Polititians, community leaders, Talk-back radio hosts...everyone is scared of upsetting Muslims...why ?

Thank you, I appreciate the link.

Hear we are talking about embittered white males on the sad side of middle age and cue Hasbeen.

Dear Hasbeen,

“Yes steelie, we will catch up with these peddlers of poison...But don't worry mate, someone knows who you are.”

If you or someone you know is the anonymous clown with the yahoo account from the OLO forum that keeps dropping that rot in my email then give it up because it has been blocked.

Dear Phillip S,

Embittered white males on the sad side of middle age most certainly can have their say and they have been having a pretty free rein of it on this site. But as I am close, if not already there, to claiming that title myself I reserve the right to do the same so if you don't like it then you will just have to get over it.

Dear Ludwig,

My humblest of apologies for getting your name wrong.

For what it is worth, after a shaky start by him, I did think Morrison was starting to make good sense and was in fact poorly treated by some sections of the media. In my opinion he has pissed it all up against the wall and joined the rest of the poison peddlers and that cartoon is thoroughly deserved.

I'm afraid I can't accept that the person who is the subject of my original post is just a dropkick seeking notoriety. He was not countered from what I saw and even had some support. This is a cancer clawing at our youth but being fed by others. I have a very real fear that this extremism risks becoming an accepted norm.

Dear OSW,

Bloody hell, are you sure you are not on the sauce? Please read what I posted. It was a generic 'you' which included myself.

As to what is 'inconsistent, incompatible and diametrically opposed, to that of our Australian values, our culture, and our way of life' try the calling for the 'beheading, nuking or gassing and cremation of all Muslims'.

You have not taken the opportunity to condemn his words.

Dear Phillip S,

Back to the old tricks of importing these stories to stir up the locals? Wondered why you didn't include a link. Answer, because it was from Aljazzera.
http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/201302062143-0022530

You obviously didn't want others to appreciate how much their actions are condemned by Muslims and their organisations in London. Well OSW gobbled it up on cue. Even thanking you for a link you never gave.

I don't use the actions of the Westborough Baptist Church in America to call for the rejection of Christianity in Australia but you are doing your best Paul Revere impression because of the actions of some idiots in London?

I again condemn you as a poison peddler.

csteele - I see you are selectively reading again please note the following part -
"They have been condemned by the East London Mosque but still continue to do it," So I did include that part which you said I did not.

By putting in just a few of the words the page will come up near first in any search engine, SO AGAIN you are wrong. I have the page not the link, you managed to find it quick.

Their actions may have been condemned by Muslims but they still continue, to me making them a very dangerous group.

It has to be again noted that I am still waiting for the answers to my questions and what the lies and half truths are.

It is true, if you look at csteele,s post history, just here in OLO, you will see defense of the indefensible.
Defense of out standing acts by Muslims, act of some, appearing to be children of unwed parents.

Let us take a closer look, runner will be displeased.
Increasing numbers of humanity, in the developed world, believe in no God.
We teach evolution, and of the long history of this world,we look for life on other planets.
We, even I think if folk want the straw religion is, let them have it.
Entrench in our laws, their right toit.
We, at a cost to the rest of us, give tax breaks to the followers of many Gods, and in many cases, have that cread interffer with our daily life.
WHY should we, this creed wants its own laws, in my country, wants its right to hate the west, I understand it is not all.
Why is both this creed and the Catholic Church,able to give comfort within its heart,to folk like the hateful pedophiles and the equally hateful Islamists?
csteele is a defender of all things Muslim.
And I question again why, based on a never was never will be God, we bend our knee to the wishes of some who we opened our door to.

Csteel says....But I do think you are on to something. I would wager a penny to a pound that the vast majority who have contributed on this thread are male, white, bitter, and on the sad side of middle age.

Your probably right, but you must also remember that most in this age group had loved ones either effected by, or lost to, the several wars faught to protect our values and way of life.

They most certainly didn't go to war, with the knowledge that our great nation would many years later simply open the flood gates to the likes of the Muslim race, which like it or not, harbors terrorism.

Now as for immigration, you are simply trying to make out that people like myself are anti immigration, which I'm not, provided they are INVITED, but I am anti taking any risk of bring people into our country, who's folk have proven records of harboring those WHO HATE US.

The illegals are one such risk, as apparently, not even they (the illegals) know their own backgrounds.

Now if they don't know their age, origin or faith, then how would we know.
So There is a huge difference, don't you think Csteel?

On a number of occasions, not this thread, I have asked the question
"Given that wherever islam establishes itself, there are problems with
the existing population, why should we bother ?".

This latest exchange between Phillp S and OSW illustrates exactly what I am talking about.

Five clowns decide to take it upon themselves to be some sort of 'God squad' outside a Mosque in London, without the sanction of the Mosque officials who subsequently firmly condemn their actions, and then get themselves arrested for their troubles and suddenly Australia is in grave fear of being “reduced to a Moslem war zone”?

It just defies logic. It is startling how people end up processing facts in this fashion.

So why this hyper inflation of every small act to continually roundly condemn all Muslims? Because people like Phillip S and OSW have lost all PERSPECTIVE! They have become poison peddlers intent on using every small transgression to blight the whole and stoke fears within our communities.

We have Jewish communities well established within our country some of whom are living to a degree under their own laws. We don't use the fact that in Israel orthodox Jews stone cars that are driven on the Sabbath, or that Orthodox settlers in the West Bank have finally won the implementation of Palestinian only buses, to call them a 'scourge' or ask “how long till they try this here”.

The very real problem we are facing is the rhetoric being propagated by the likes of these two shows no sign of diminishing. It has become a feeding frenzy between their ilk, the media and our politicians. I'm not sure what is going to finally break this spiral, hopefully it doesn't take a Norway type tragedy to do so.

Below is a link to a video which is commonly coming out of Europe and the UK. I do not know if they are exaggerrated or not, but there are far too many for them all to be wrong. Written media reports all indicate the same thing. Anti social conduct, rape, bashings, car buirning and 'no go' zones are apparent everyday happenings in many countries.

OSW is correct, the local media and all politicians are too scared to acknowledge the problems of many European countries have with Islam, let alone take any action to prevent the same happening here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a1PM6YB8wg&sns=em

OSW asked;
.everyone is scared of upsetting Muslims...why ?

Well, as has already happened overseas, they might either assault you
or indeed kill you.

It only takes one.

Don't worry about them Bazz. They're only likely to attack you if they outnumber you 10 to one, & can sneak up from behind. That is of course if you are a girl. Those odds aren't high enough if the target is a man. If push comes to shove, they'll scatter like spilled chaff in a wind.

Me send you emails steely, why would I bother. You obviously don't understand anything you read. You must be almost the only poster here who could not find which way was up, if drowning in a bath tub.

In passing, were you born Muslim, or did you convert. They tell me the converters are the most rabid.

If you want to see "rabid", Hasbeen....just check out the majority of posts on this thread.

(Hint - they're not csteele's:)

Poirot and Csteele,
I wonder if both of you, or either, are prepared to acknowledge that the UK and some European countries now have massive social problems because of uncontroled and excessive Islamic immigration.

It seems to me that muslims are not prepared to integrate with any other people, irrespective of their ethnicity. They even have serious problems integrating with other muslims that belong to a differing branch.

So there is nothing we can do that will appease them and violence seems to be their only answer to those they differ with. Religion of Peace indeed!

@CSteele

<<Five clowns decide to take it upon themselves to be some sort of 'God squad' outside a Mosque in London…suddenly Australia is in grave fear of being “reduced to a Moslem war zone”?>>

You’re in denial CSteele –NO, NO I take that back.
To be in denial implies you know something but reject it –you are just plain ignorant.

It is NOT five individuals –nor even five thousand.
It is written into Islam’s holy books.
It been a feature of Islamic history from day one.
IT IS SYSTEMIC.

<< people like Phillip S and OSW have lost all PERSPECTIVE!>>
No. It’s you who has no perspective!

If you were at all able to drag yourself away from your on-going mad-hatter tea parties with Muslim gentlemen in quiet infidel suburbs.

And relocate --just for short time -- to one of the infidel suburbs bordering true believers suburbs in Nigeria, Pakistan,Bangladesh, Southern Thailand, Southern Sudan...or even, the southern and central western parts of Sydney. You might, might just -come to view Islam from a whole new *perspective*.

<<If you want to see "rabid", Hasbeen....just check out the majority of posts on this thread>>

Ah, true to form!

Hear no --see no --speak no, criticism of Islam!

SPQR,

The hilarity is that you guys on this thread are demonstrating EXACTLY the behaviour that you decry in the people you are criticising.

(You can't see that, of course - because that would require a modicum of maturity and humility:)

Poirot,

<<The hilarity is that you guys on this thread are demonstrating EXACTLY the behaviour that you decry in the people you are criticising>>

Poirot you are a person of remarkable contrasts!

When it's anything about Islam your sit demurely on the sidelines tut tutting.

But if the subject is climate change you're straight into it with boots, fists and elbows.

You must have been a ayatollah in a previous life.eh?

Aah.. csteel wageing jihad again.

Give it up luv. you lose again. If you like 'em so much why don't you find a country that you'll feel more at home in. Wow! look at that I can be politically correct.

Then Poirot, answer my question, why should we bother trying to adapt
to their philosophy and attitudes ?

csteele, if I'm a clown for asking you about your dinner date with your muslim hero, at least I'm not a knob making excuses for these hate-mongers that you lefties love so much, just because they are the antithesis of western society.

You must be a fat pig if you gulped down three steaks. Talking of pigs, when are you going to invite your non-halal mozzie over for a pork chop or three?

"...excuses for these hate-mongers..."

That's a laugh!

AP, did you read your post?

Good afternoon to you POIROT...

Ah gee, I wish I possessed your wisdom. Your stunning 'one liners', and your incomparable intuition. All of which pales in comparison with the overt anathema you display with any poor soul who dare oppose your views ? Through it all, seeps a real bitterness, made all the more toxic, with the poison that drips from that allegorical pen of yours, when one dares to admonish you for some cock-eyed notion you've sought to have enjoined...

I joined this little Forum, for a bit of fun, a giggle, and to 'kick around' everything and anything, with like minded people. And to that end, most of those who regularly contribute herein do just that, some with that mastery of talent of being able to launch into some feigned outrage at something someone's said, always with their tongue firmly planted within their cheek ?

Lately, some topics seem to have devolved into dreadful slanging matches, dripping with malice, and yes, poison, together with all the other appalling attributes that we humans seem so accomplished. And regrettably, I'm starting to join in myself, and engage in the same sort of behaviour. I though I'd left all that crap behind after retiring. The last few years of work, I was almost devoid of any human emotion - victim, crook, or goodguy ? Nothing. No feelings ever penetrated my psyche. Neither tragedy, nor horror, nor crime...nothing. The legacy of over thirty years 'in the job'. I wasn't a very nice person in those days, very aggressive and devoid of human compassion. A few colleagues reckon I'd be dead by seventy. Well I'm not ! Another former colleague, did *47 hard years* in uniform (only a Sergeant, never aspired higher) ! Amassed a huge Super/Pension and payout, healthy, tough as old rope. He died in a little under 5 months, from his retirement date ? His widow was inconsolable, she was always worried, her 'Ted' would be hurt or killed on the job ! Go figure ? Perhaps the time's finally come to review my tenure on the Forum ?

o sung wu,

"...bitterness...toxic....poison...."

Ho hum.

I have a bit of a say - as has everyone on this thread.

And because I disagree with you and the majority - I'm (apparently) afflicted in the above way.

Yep, one rule for yerselves and another for anyone who disagrees with you.

Poirot - Quote "The hilarity is that you guys on this thread are demonstrating EXACTLY the behaviour that you decry in the people you are criticising." TOTALLY LUDICROUS STATEMENT

If they were coming here and protesting by posting on the media, I would not care, you will find I have never done or been convicted of doing anything these people have for example causing $9 million dollars damage to property, rape, sexual assault, sending threatening letter to people, NOTHING so your whole argument defies logic.

csteele - Quote "Five clowns decide to take it upon themselves to be some sort of 'God squad' outside a Mosque in London, without the sanction of the Mosque officials who subsequently firmly condemn their actions, and then get themselves arrested for their troubles and suddenly Australia is in grave fear of being “reduced to a Moslem war zone”?"

A few clowns got together Hitler, Rohm, Himmler and Geobbels they were condemed by many people but still look what happened.

It has to be again and again noted that I am still waiting for the answers to my questions and what the lies and half truths are.

Well the bait has been taken, the hook firmly set.
Based on a thought bubble from an unknown on social media, csteele yet again lets us get hot under the collar, and too gets a chance to both damn us and protect Islam.
More than that is at stake.
A great deal more.
Poirot, a poster I respect, dashes in from the sidelines, tlay the slipper in, too any one with a different view.
About 800 years ago Islam was at its peak, we will hear about the crusaders, maybe much said about them was true, the bad parts.
Islam once lead the world, science and many things.
Now here, and world wide, MAKE NO MISTAKE, this is what this thread is about.
They DEMAND AN END TO? FREEDOM OF SPEECH!
We westerners by the way, are told even by our governments, and the United Nations, a dreadful group , that we must remain open to all views.
Csteele, by his post, wants to silence us.
No mention however of *our dead are in heaven yours are in hell*!

Poirot's political correctness would censor any criticism of violent Muslims while spinning stories of the moral superiority of the religion and traditions over the very lacking Australian culture. It is called the cultural cringe of the Left and the Greens are notorious for it.

Political correctness at work in the UK,

<Police 'covered up' violent campaign to turn London area 'Islamic'
Police have been accused of “covering up” a campaign of abuse, threats and violence aimed at “Islamicising” an area of London.

By Andrew Gilligan

Victims say that officers in the borough of Tower Hamlets have ignored or downplayed outbreaks of hate crime, and suppressed evidence implicating Muslims in them, because they fear being accused of racism.

The claims come as four Tower Hamlets Muslims were jailed for at least 19 years for attacking a local white teacher who gave religious studies lessons to Muslim girls.

The Sunday Telegraph has uncovered more than a dozen other cases in Tower Hamlets where both Muslims and non-Muslims have been threatened or beaten for behaviour deemed to breach fundamentalist “Islamic norms.”>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8570506/Police-covered-up-violent-campaign-to-turn-London-area-Islamic.html

In Australia, police are condemned for posting 'ethnic' descriptions of offenders sought for serious crimes. Gun crimes, murder and rape are trivial compared with the risk of offending against the PC decrees of multiculturalists.

O Sung Wu,
Don't even consider quitting OLO. Your posts are reasonable and well thought out.

Remember that OLO has many more readers than posters, so your views are reaching far more that the few you debate with. I am willing to bet that most find your posts ageeable as I do. It is good to read the views of someone that has many years experience in dealing with all sorts of people.

Good afternoon to you again, POIROT...

The fact that you have a need to resort to your quaint 'one liners' demonstrates you're bereft of arguement. Similarily, your continued resorting to 'links', ad nauseam, for the same reason ?

Come on POIROT, you can do better than that ? Or is it all becoming a little tedious for you these days ? I know what you mean ? It gets a little lonely doesn't it POIROT - reaching for that word, that phrase, developing good syntax, the careful use of adjectives, and my biggest error, the overuse of contractions and the ellipsis. And the most tiring of all; researching all those 'links' ? Indeed it sure becomes all very wearisome, doesn't it ?

Equally as tiring I should think, is aligning yourself with poor ol' CSTEELE and his peculiar consortium of (very) demented Islamic brethern ! All the while the Mufti's are loudly roaring away with laughter, at poor CSTEELE'S feeble efforts to be recognised by them ! At the very least you'd think they'd give him a little prayer mat ?

It all must be so exhausting for you, given you have little or no truck with anything that lad has to say ? Almost a case of CSTEELE being led around like a little puppy on a lead, being taken for his obligatory 'walkies' by you, (wearing your mandatory burkha, of course) ?

Someone out there, for goodness sake give young CSTEELE, his little prayer mat ! Nothing special you understand. It doesn't need a pattern, as long as it's servicable (without bullet holes, or any residual of AN60, please ?) Otherwise he'll pay out on us all, big time ! You all know what he's like ? Last time, he threatened to stand in the corner, hold his breath, until he turned blue ? None of us wish for that to happen eh ?

o sung wu,

Just read the end of your post (didn't get that far first time around)

Advice: - don't take it all to heart...even my my rants are only my opinion.

I do know how you feel, and more than a few times have felt the forum was rancid and that it would be best if I left.

But it seems I'm still around - for some unknown reason : )

And though there are quite a few here who wish I'd bugger off (or at least pipe down), there's nothing like a contrary view to keep the discussion rolling.

I hope you stick around because you're eloquent and reasonably well-mannered - even if I don't always agree with your stance.

Belly - Quote "csteele yet again lets us get hot under the collar,"

I am no where near hot under the collar, in fact I am mildly amused at the rhetoric coming from csteele and company and how they continually avoid answering any questions. Reminds me of the ostrich with its head buried in the sand

Interesting reading - this thread. Mr Steele's contribution is certainly from someone who either doesn't know what he is talking about, or in fact is a supporter of Islam. I would suggest that he live in Tower Hamlets or Luton (UK) for a few months, then he might start to understand that all the values that the Left usually claim are negated by the really "poisonous" ideology of Islam. For example, homosexuals needn't worry about "Gay Marriage" in a Muslim society, they would be lucky to escape being hanged. There are many other examples, but I'm sure most readers here are aware of them. One wonders then what is the purpose of Mr Steele's stirling defence of the indefencible? Go to any capital city in Europe, or Paris for example, and see the results of Islamic immigration in the "zones sensibles" where Police do not dare to go. The same is repeated in many other cities, Rotterdam, Brussels, Malmo just a few examples. The fact is that there is rapidly approaching a "tipping point" when there will be a tremendous backlash from the European indigenous population, feelings currently being suppressed by their lily livered and traitorous political elite. It is a pity because most Muslims are not extremists, and they will suffer badly. If I were a Muslim in the West, I would seriously look at leaving while the going is good. Sorry to have to say that, but the social situation is now a tinderbox, only a small spark is necessary to touch it off.

Posted by Ludwig, Tuesday, 5 March 2013 8:29:03 PM. I agree with Bazz and Froggie – it is Islam, not Muslims or at least not the vast majority of Muslims that is the problem.

I agree most Muslims I know are nice people individually.

Unfortunately it's when there is a great group of them it becomes a problem. Ask the police if they try to arrest a Muslim in a Muslim neighbourhood who has committed a crime. Within minutes there is a huge crowd of "nice individual Muslims" trying to rip the police man's head off.

Then there are the "nice Muslim individuals" that run the Criminal Bikie Gangs, peddling Drugs & Violence throughout Australia. They ARE competing with the Italian Mafia, The Triads, & Russians Mafia for our children.

All with the tacit support of our Islamic supporters on this forum. I won't say Muslim because they refuses to say whether they are or not.

Dear Banjo,

I got suckered into one of these presentations because it is only if you look carefully do you realise that the report doesn't come from CBS but rather CBN, which I now know stands for Christian Broadcasting Network.

It was founded by one of the most self-serving, nasty, Christian tele-evangelists that America has ever produced.

As always there is a modicum of truth that is then warped into bells and whistles fearmongering.

Dear Hasbeen,

Neither.

Dear Banjo,

I think massive waves of immigration can definitely cause problems, but that is not what we are experiencing here.

Dear SPQR,

That is just like me telling you to move to Israel where conservative MP's are inciting violence against Ethiopian Jews who have immigrated there. I'm sure you would fit right in.

Dear Jayb,

Good to see you. What link do you have for us today?

Dear Austin Powerless,

Not much to add to that post. Thank you.

Dear OSW,

Your post would have a lot greater traction if your opening post in this thread hadn't started with; “You are indeed the proponent for an autonomous Muslim Province in NSW. As well as the senior intermediary for the proposed Islamization of Australia. My only question, is this to occur before or after your pilgrimage to Mecca ?”

I think might be a slight credibility issue.

Dear Phillip S,

You wrote;

“A few clowns got together Hitler, Rohm, Himmler and Geobbels they were condemned by many people but still look what happened.”

Immigration became a vehicle to propagate hate speech, their poison gained traction, Hitler's book became a best seller, and the vast majority of the German people either committed, were complicit in, or welcomed the removal of 'undesirables' from their communities.

It is exactly what I don't want for my country.

Dear Belly,

Same rules apply.

Dear onthebeach,

Talk to me about banning all rabid evangalisers, including Christians and we can have a conversation.
http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/04/13/evangelical-christians-beating-gays-in-the-name-of-god.htm

csteele - A few clowns, or a few extreme radical Muslims stirring up conditions that will potentially make areas of our country unsafe for everyday Australian. It is close to that now. Hitler started with a few clowns.

Quote "It is exactly what I don't want for my country." Then can't you see this is what is coming from some of the so called refugees.

Give them TIME and NUMBERS then you will regret everything you thought about them. (but again I say not all are bad but the bad are the vocal minority with a very loud voice and violent tendencies.

csteel: Dear Jayb, Good to see you. What link do you have for us today?

& If I did post a link csteely, would you look at it. NO.

csteel: Talk to me about banning all rabid evangalisers, including Christians and we can have a conversation.

Now that's something I agree with, but does that include your rabid Islamic Imrams too. No, I thought not. I'm all for banning all radicals of any description. Well, banning? fortunately, in this country, unlike the places you admire & aspire Australia to become, we're allowed free speech here..

I think I've seen most of the posts on the thread, I'm a little disappointed that the thread has not touched on some of the other issues raised by the opening post. It seems to have bogged down into and Islam to and fro from the usual camps.

I was more bothered by the implications of holding to account those deemed to be spreading poison.

A cure that in my view is worse than the poison.
Not sure how neatly I can summarise my thinking on that but I'll have a go.
- Concerns about who gets to decide what is poison. Is it poison to suggest that the earth is round, that all things don't revolve around it? Both claims have been considered poison in the past. Who is spreading the poison around ACC (anthropic climate change), those who believe the models and those who either reject them or have serious doubts? Action or inaction could have very serious consequences depending on who is right. Roll on with any contentious issue where views have changed over time and you should see the point.
- I don't think it generally helps to suppress dissenting views, I'd rather have them out in the open where they can be challenged and rebutted.
- I think we can learn from dissenting voices at times even if their analysis of risk or solution turns out to be wrong. Sometimes there is enough truth there that we should be questioning our assumptions to find better answers.
- I don't want our country to be one where only government approved views are allowed to be expressed. I'd much rather have the rude and offensive carry on than have the thoughtful but contentious silenced.

R0bert

So Mr Steele's latest observation boils down to "Christian fundamentialists are nastier than Muslims". That may or may not be so, but it is entirely irrelevant.
We see again the "moral equivalence" logical fallacy reflex of the left. The fact is he started the discussion which was about a leaflet threatening vengeance on Muslims. So we are talking about Islam here, not Christian fundamentalism, which I agree is also misguided.

Hello there POIROT...

I was for once, right. Not a resounding feature of my life thusfar ?
I've always believed you have a real potency within your rhetoric, it's just a shame we don't have the opportunity of seeing it as often as we should !

Between you and LEXI, you're both a powerful influence on the Forum I reckon ? Keeping the lid on us thoughtless males, with our arbitrary bursts of testosterone ! A skill that can only manifest itself with people who possess a keen intellect. Thank you POIROT, thank you very much.

Hello there BANJO...

I've been following your threads with considerable interest, and I must say how relieved I am to observe that you're not in reality, amongst the misanthropic radicals of the left ! And I really appreciate your kind sentiments too, thank you very much. By the way, a small wager, that you or someone close to you can play ?

May I ask then, how does it feel to be pragmatic BANJO ? To be conventional ? To wish that our great country, our culture, our lifestyle, and the Aussie people, are to remain unyieldingly within our own (Australian) grasp ? Then, beware, you may well be perilously close to being identified as having a 'racial' predisposition, similar to me ?

Your see BANJO, I'm casually observing the unintelligible and incoherent mutterings, of that great plenipotentiary for 'An Islamic Australia',...CSTEELE ! Still, he does retain the right to articulate his own brand of irrationality, that is of course, until we're all under the intolerable, IRON grip, of Sharia Law.

csteele,
So are you claiming that All media reports of Islamic problems in UK and European countries are wrong or exaggerrated. If you believe that you will believe anything. There have been many, many credible reports coming from europe all indicating the same thing.

Also are those claims made by Islam representatives about wanting polygamy, sharia law, rape is the fault of the victim, etc. all false.

Reckon the girls in the sixty gang rapes in s/w Sydney, in 2000, all feel enriched by multiculturalism. The cops only caught a few.

The question still needs to be answered as to why a muslim would come to live in a country that is completely at odds with his social standards and culture.

Dear R0bert,

A fair question. Is the cure worse than the poison?

Firstly please understand where I am coming from. It is not the fact that this lad posted what he did that is so offensive to me. He would be unlikely to know any Muslims personally so all of this hatred has come to him via media that is determined to take minor incidents in other countries and ramp them up into dire warnings for his consumption.

I too would rather see his take out in the open.

When I talk about holding people to account I mean exposing the views and hypocrisy of the poison peddlers for what they often are, abhorrent and vile hate-mongering of exactly the type they accuse others of.

Yet even with a ratio in their favour of around 5:1 on a thread like this there are cries of 'he wants to shut us up and deny us our free speech'.

Yet I have not called for any sanctions based around racial or religious vilification laws.

However here is an interesting exercise we might conduct with this group of self styled 'defenders of free speech'. Ask how many support sanctions against the self appointed Muslim cleric Sheik Haron and his off-sider who sent the letters to the families of our soldiers killed in combat. I certainly do although the ultimate penalties here of a couple of decades in prison are in my opinion vastly excessive.

The Westborough Baptist Church in the US is far more aggressive in their attack on the families of the slain lining the route of funeral processions with their hateful messages. Yet while many Americans are utterly disgusted by the group they are allowed, with some restrictions, to continue their protests.

That is a commitment to free speech which in one sense I admire, but its absolutism is not something I'm sure I want for my country.

So let us see who from this bunch are true to their claimed ethos and are prepared to stand up for the 'Sheik's' right to free speech and the right to offend.

Oh yes csteele, the sheik has the right to say it and even write it.
However in an Islamic society how far would you get if you said about
Mohammed that he was a killer and pedophile.
Actually say that here and you could be disappeared or beheaded.

Belly, I suggest you read this, it is about the Labour Party in the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/7333420/Islamic-radicals-infiltrate-the-Labour-Party.html

I guess it was to be expected but the party will need to be vigilant.

csteele - Quote "He would be unlikely to know any Muslims personally so all of this hatred has come to him via media that is determined to take minor incidents in other countries and ramp them up into dire warnings for his consumption."

1) Rather than what you say don't you think it is possible he has seen the numbers that are coming was approx 2200 per month
+ the amount of money is being spent on them
+ the amount of money that is wasted by the navy being used as a taxi service
+ the $2 Billion being spent buying drone aircraft to find the boats + the anti social behavior within detention centers
+ the fact we have tens of thousands homeless but there is not 1 homeless refugee
+ the federal Government is giving $156.5 million towards alleviating homelessness Australia BUT the bill for refugees for 2012/13 is estimated at $6 Billion dollars.

Just seeing the above which are only a small number of FACTS readily available maybe he can see what you can't which is a total in-balance in favor of refugees which the UN has said are economic refugees and knows his future is in jeopardy.

Just go and talk to any homeless person, pensioner or welfare recipient what they think, The majority will say they are not wanted.

Corrected
Just seeing the above which are only a small number of FACTS readily available maybe he can see what you can't which is a total in-balance in favor of refugees which the UN has said a lot are economic refugees and knows his future is in jeopardy.

o sung wo please do not even think about leaving.
You are one who all sides can find pleasure and enjoy talking to.
We have lost good posters, but are well served by folklike you arriving and staying.
I so very many times, have thought about leaving.
The fault however has,always been mine, not the forum and not some, true fools who inhabit it.
You know, from your past job, as I do from mine, some are incapable of truly understanding.
Back on subject, we know a thread about this subject, boat people God, climate change will be a big one.
And draw the attention of all types.
I want as a Labor centrist, to highlight a truth.
We should contemplate that truth.
Some groups can only get a voice by using sites such as this, and we feed them if we let them get away with a fraud.
We need only, do not more than reprint the dreadful things said at that demonstration in Sydney about us.
Or the awful things said to rape victims,you deserve it because you are Australian.
To answer the threads title.
Even then, unlike the primitive hate filled flogging a car already on fire we saw, we must not silence free speech.
And ignore at our peril csteele is asking for just that.

Read this article and tell me what you think of the idea of paying the "Jizya Tax" which is protection money paid by non-Muslim minorities in Muslim majority countries.

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/islam/al-azhar-scholar-christian-copts-will-pay-jizya/

Then tell me where the true poison lies?

When earlier in this thread I pointed out that CSteele was one eyed because he was noticeable less moved by the antics of Islamists –like these below:
http://choiceindying.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/behead-all-those-who-insult-the-prophet1.jpg
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/video-of-8-year-old-jihad-girl-urging-islamic-uprising/story-fndo317g-1226476305453
Than he was by the antics of a lone infidel pamphleteer he protested his innocence: <<Dear SPQR…you know full well I condemned the holding up of the placard.>>

So I went back and checked. And this is what I found. This was his first post on the “Islamic Riot” thread—and the closest he ever got to *condemning* them:<<Well it would seem the actions of the intolerant have given the intolerant on OLO a call to action. Fear is playing its part in both the initial protests and the responses…Many of the post above are touting regressive, violent, nationalistic, racist solutions but are born from fear and ignorance>> [Posted by csteele, Sunday, 16 September 2012 1:12:55 PM]

[More in the way of a criticism of the critics]

And his second response:
<<You silly duffer, I'm sure Butcher could find a few cattle cars from the 'decimated' live cattle trade and combine that with Bazz's expertise in genetics…>>

[More criticism of the critics]

And his third:
<< when one looks at the history of the 20th century with Christians delivering the Holocaust and the genocidal mass slaughter in the Yugoslav conflict which was well into the later half of that period, all within 'modern' Europe, then any objective analysis hardly puts Islam at the head of the pack on the violence score>>

[More an attack on Christianity]

Now contrast this with his heartfelt indignation on the receipt of the brochure:
<<All poison peddlers need to be held accountable…Those who propagate this sort of poison to sell advertising or push agendas need to be held accountable, including those on these very forums>>

Hmmmm…I rest my case.

Belly, please do not think about leaving. I need an old Labor conservative like you, who I can box around the ears, metaphorically speaking, even now and then. The Nazis on here just don't cut it, no sense of humor, they are always thinking about concentration camps and gas chambers, not much fun in that, don't even like Jewish jokes.
Anyway, one for you; How is Milton and the rest of the gang doing time in The Rex Jackson Memorial Wing out at The Bay. Are you visiting this Sunday, Julia might be there?

One for you;
The ALP announced today that they are changing their emblem to a condom.
They believe that it more clearly reflects their party's political stance:
- A condom stands up to inflation
- halts production,
- discourages co-operation
- protects a bunch of dicks
- and gives one a sense of security while screwing others.

O Sung Wu,
I have an old, slow speaking, friend who plays banjo mandolin like you could not believe and i am a lover of colonial/bluegrass music. In my next life I WILL be a hot fiddle or banjo player.

I am also a lover of Australiana and greatly admire the works of many former poets. Banjo is among the best so is fitting to use his nick name to help keep alive his memory. My imagination would take me way out of the classroom.

On topic, being against the ideology of multiculturalism and high immigration, I have been labeled racist and xenophobic hundreds of times on OLO and that usually tells me that an opponant cannot argue against my point of view.

I have nothing against immigrants and have worked with many of all nationalities, but it is best if we select ourselves what cultural aspects we adopt rather than government imposed MC as we have had. Our culture is constantly changing and we, the people, are the ones to determine the changes.

Most immigrants integrate and are no problem, but the are just a few groups that hold our social standards and laws in contempt and in my view we should stop allowing those groups to come here. We have our own experience to go on in this regard and the few groups I refer to aimply cannot or will not change their cultural practice. The aim being to enhance community cohesion.

I see the changes in UK and Europe and dread the same happening here.

poirot, your selective PC (muslims good, white men bad) will come back to bite youe 4rse someday.

Dear Bazz,

Thank you for the reply. The others seemed pretty keen to avoid the question.

Do I then take it you don't think the 'Sheik' should have been sanctioned for his actions? If that is the case then I tip the hat because at least you are being consistent. It is something I strive for too but not always successfully.

As I said I would want the man to receive some form of sanction for what he did. What I have trouble with are those trumpeting about their own free speech but wanting to restrict others from exercising the same.

At this stage you appear not to be one of them.

For Banjo,

It was over at Coolgardie that a mining speculator,
Who was going down the township just to make a bit o' chink,
Went off to hire a camel from a camel propagator,
And the Afghan said he'd lend it if he'd stand the beast a drink.
Yes, the only price he asked him was to stand the beast a drink.
He was cheap, very cheap, as the dromedaries go.

So the mining speculator made the bargain, proudly thinking
He had bested old Mahomet, he had done him in the eye.
Then he clambered on the camel, and the while the beast was drinking
He explained with satisfaction to the miners standing by
That 'twas cheap, very cheap, as the dromedaries go.

But the camel kept on drinking and he filled his hold with water,
And the more he had inside him yet the more he seemed to need;
For he drank it by the gallon, and his girths grew taut and tauter,
And the miners muttered softly, "Yes, he's very dry indeed!
But he's cheap, very cheap, as the dromedaries go."

So he drank up twenty buckets--it was weird to watch him suck it,
(And the market price for water was per bucket half-a-crown)
Till the speculator stopped him, saying, "Not another bucket--
If I give him any more there'll be a famine in the town.
Take him back to old Mahomet, and I'll tramp it through the town."
He was cheap, very cheap, as the speculators go.

There's a moral to this story--in your hat you ought to paste it,
Be careful whom you shout for when a camel is about,
And there's plenty human camels who, before they'll see you waste it,
Will drink up all you pay for if you're fool enough to shout;
If you chance to strike a camel when you're fool enough to shout,
You'll be cheap, very cheap, as the speculators go.

Dear SPQR,

Pray tell what case are you resting?

From a post of mine the same thread;

Quote...

Dear Jay of Melbourne,

You wrote;

“Some more footage shot by a mate of mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJAp4eBV720
He's saying that Socialist Alternative were involved and were directing people to the protest and egging them on, the Commies actually recognised him as a Nationalist and attacked him, but he lost them in the crowd and ran behind the Police line.”

Your mate goes under the nickname of 'SussToTheJew' on the White Pride website www.stormfront.org where the main topic of conversation seems to centre around who they need to get rid of first; jews; muslims or nergos.

He posts his video here;
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t913464-4/ 

What name to you use on this site? Galactica71?

You and your ilk thoroughly disgust most thinking people, the poison you are so determined to spread through our communities needs to be resisted at every turn. This is Australia mate and just as we are not an Islamic state neither are we the Third Reich. A lot of Australians gave up their lives ridding the world of the Nazi scourge yet you lot have the swastika as your screensavers?

As to other posters here do you ever stop to think of the bedfellows you are keeping?

End Quote.

I think this was the first time I talked about poison.

As to bedfellows lets look at our Philip S.

“Jay of Melbourne, I will agree with a lot of what you wrote”

“Jay of Melbourne, What you say is correct”

“Jay of Melbourne, You are right”

csteele - It is easy to see when someone is loosing like csteele because they fail to answer any questions put to them, but continually come back with the same boring rhetoric.

As I said before just like an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand.

Paul1405 while stepping around the product of csteele,s camel I found your post.
Yoy hit the nail on the head.
What this country needs is free condoms, for every member of the greens.
Now too, in the past mentioned thread, or the one before it, we found was it jay?
some one told of a shop refusing to sell anzac somthing or other.
It has grown wings, that lie is all over the net.
Only mention it because csteele is using the same dog whistling style here.
However if researchers want to visit the former thread about a convert lieing to try to convict a policeman, you will see a posters in my view every bit as bad as the one this thread is about, one we can all see actually exists.

csteele, I don't believe anyone should be prosecuted for writing such
a letter in such poor taste. Mind you I have not seen the text of the letter.
However if I was the deceased soldiers father I might take some sort
of action.
The best thing to do is to publicise what he wrote as widely as
possible in the area where he lives.
In olden days communities had their answers to people like that.
Tarring and Feathering.
This was done to show the communities distaste for the offender without
giving injury.
They were more advanced than us !

G'day there BELLY my friend...

Come on now don't be too hard on young CSTEELE, otherwise he'll send his mates to pursue us all over the place with their ideological scimitars waving about their veiled heads. Besides he's kinda running out of puff I should think, trying ever so vainly to fortify his waning sanity, in the face of overwhelming and irrepressible rationale and logic ?

What do you think BELLY, shall we ? OK, OK... come on home CSTEELE, all's forgiven, none of us are utterly devoid of compassion, but I still think, you shouldn't proclaim your continued desire of retaining a connection with these Islamic Fundamentalists. If you must, I can tell you, there are several links with Hizballah, of the Shi'as movement, in the Lakemba and Bankstown areas, amongst ors. Check the 'phone book, I suggest.

Though I suppose it's incumbant upon me as an older fellow and perhaps a little more worldly then you, that I should at least gently remind you of the unwelcome consequences of your hitherto strange conduct, together with your somewhat unwise and brusque talk, talk of a kind that can only lead to inciting trouble ? And none of us want our peace shattered with unwanted and unnecessary trouble !

Perhaps too, in time you may care to revisit your resolve, and perhaps that all consuming credo of yours ? For no other reason then to examine your continued, emotional support, for this bizarre Australia wide, Islmamic Religious Zealotry you're proposing !

Surely then, you have no desire to totally alienate yourself from your friends, colleagues and more importantly, from the broader Australian community ?

Of course you don't CSTEELE. So lets stop all this nonsense now, and come back into the welcoming folds of the Forum, and we'll continue to discuss your penchant with all that partisanship, associated with the Australian media. OK ?

Dear Bazz,

I'm not sure tarring and feathering can quite be deemed 'not sanctioning' but fair enough.

Dear Belly,

I had forgotten you were quite an expert in the law back then, deeming the Judge a 'fool', an 'idiot' and 'challenged by mental illness'.

So do you defend the 'Sheik's' right to free speech and to offend without state sanction or do you think, like I, he should cop some penalty?

Dear OSW,

I ask the same question of you but will not be holding my breath for an answer.

But I note that it is a little hard taking talk of sanity, rationality and logic from a bloke who thinks 5 fools outside a Mosque in London means we are going to see “Australia reduced to a Moslem war zone”.

But hats off for your last effort. A nice couple of flourishes. I felt “ideological scimitars waving about their veiled heads” particularly had real merit. A little tightening up and you may have the makings of a truly decent post. I would like to see more of this from you in the future, sure beats maudlin talk of giving it away.

csteele - You have now shown yourself to be a total hypocrite.

To quote you "I ask the same question of you but will not be holding my breath for an answer."

You sarcastically remind someone (Dear OSW) they have not answered your question,
BUT ON 3 OCCASIONS I REMINDED YOU YOU HAVE FAILED TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.

Belly, get you own jokes, the condom joke was mine, no second prizes.
How about this one.
What is the difference between a Greenie and a puppy?
A: A puppy stops whining after it grows up.

Yes Philip, getting answers is difficult.
My question is still unanswered.

Why should we bother ?

Dear Bazz,

I can't find where I have failed to answer a question directed at me by your good self. If you do so and it is germane to the issue of poison propagation then I am more than happy to address it.

What I am not going to do is provide a soap box for its further spread by answering questions purely designed to do just that. It would be rather self defeating one would have thought.

csteele - Being selective again, please just admit you are out of your depth here, if you read my questions a number were directed at your statements so by your reasoning your statements were not relevant to your own thread.

Dear Philip S,

You know full well that most of your questions were designed to further propagate your poison.

But since you have been so persistent how about you answer the question about the 'Sheik's' right to free speech and to offend without sanction by the authorities and I will answer one of your past questions or a new one, poisonous or not.

Dear Mr Steele
In accordance with the ideal of free speech, I support the right of the Sheik to free speech and to peddle his brand of "poison" as you put it.
I think all ideas should be allowed into the light of the public arena, whether they be "poison" or not, but I reserve the right to examine them critically and be free to comment in any way I choose about them.
I will not submit to any law which says that I cannot speak out for fear of hurting anyone's feelings, and I don't agree that anyone should have the right to sue at law for any such "hurt feelings". And that goes for me too. Of course there has to be some limitation such as incitement to murder...but I don't think that is free speech in the way it is generally accepted, and in any case is currently proscribed by law.
It seems to me that you see very clearly the "hate speech" of the anti-Islamist posters, but not that of the Islamists. Curious, isn't it...

csteele - My answer is easy it has been expressed more eloquently by Froggie just above here, but it is also my answer.

The Gillard Governments proposed laws will kill freedom of speech.

Also what gives Muslims the right to put a death sentence on someone who draws a cartoon they do not like or say something they do not like.

Regrettably free of speech in some instances is already lost in western society, namely America but other countries will follow.

Froggie: It seems to me that you see very clearly the "hate speech" of the anti-Islamist posters, but not that of the Islamists. Curious, isn't it...

Exactly Froggie. I hit csteel & a few others with this in many different Posts on the same subject every couple of weeks. In fact I'm getting a little sick of these Jihadists supporters. They take advantage of Australia's idea of a fair go & use it against us for their gain. I have know idea why we accommodate their crap.

Dear Froggie and Philip S,

You claim;

“It seems to me that you see very clearly the "hate speech" of the anti-Islamist posters, but not that of the Islamists.”

Crap!

What a perfect example of an absolute spin on the facts.

I do not support the so called 'Sheik' having the right to send those letters to the widows of our fallen soldiers. You do!

I consider it hateful and deserving of sanction. You don't!

As to your hate speech aren't I utilising “the right to examine them critically and be free to comment in any way I choose about them”?

Dear Jayb,

Got a link for us?

Gday o sung wo, well csteele is no stranger to that part of Sydney.
I got a look myself in my job as union official.
Turned up at the Lidcomh office of the CFMEU, for a combined EBA half wit, that is praising him, ex Secretary would not let me in, so sent delegates in and held a one man sit in , in his main gate.
Had fun! told his delegates as they arrived to tell him I had doubts his mum and dad wed, walked around those streets, shear boredom,and met many nice folk.
But what I thought to be a black letter box, turned out to be an aggressive woman dressed to hide, walked in to me, on purpose, trouble maker.
I just informed her she should move on I would not engage in her spite.
She left, in a street I walked as a young bloke and never want to again, wounder if it was csteele?
Rest mate, this country still produces good men from every ethnic back ground they let us know we are in safe hands.

csteele - quote "Of course there has to be some limitation such as incitement to murder...but I don't think that is free speech in the way it is generally accepted," That part would cover what you say, the letters are clearly the work of an ar*#@**e there are laws in place to deal with that character.

Mr Steele, you have it completely reversed, and have misunderstood me. I don't support people sending hateful letters to recently bereaved people at all. That is why we have a law concerning misuse of the postal and telecommunication services. As Philip S said, I covered that in my response. I support the Sheik's right to freedom of speech in public, for which I believe that most fair minded people would rightly castigate him.
I accept your assertion that you are in favour of free speech, and I hope you will continue to do so.
You are entitled to examine examples of hate speech critically and be free to comment in any way you choose about them, but you appear (maybe I'm wrong) to want to take that right away from anyone that raises the least criticism of Islam. Bear in mind that it is the ideology of Islam that we are criticising, and also those that advocate it.

csteel: Dear Jayb, Got a link for us?

Yes, csteel I have, but will you watch them. NO, of course not.
Here are some questions you won't answer either.
1. Do you believe in the Qur’an?
2. Do you want Sharia Law in Australia?
3. Do you believe in Jihad for Australia?
4. Do you want Australia to become an Islamic Caliphate?
Simple, straightforward, to the point. Will you answer, “yes” to all of these or will you deflect the questions.
Here are some video’s for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKs7oi_-NUo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvHt94EGrac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOlOq8-qQlI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpM6QKaAgP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsiKVc028I0
Here are some nice video of good people helping Islamists meet your Allah.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qhbdGxDrxI
http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/air-strikes/truck-carrying-weapon-vaporized/2013908066001/
http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/air-strikes/ac-130h-engages-taliban-from-above/1954284308001/
http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/air-strikes/a-10-warthog-strikes-taliban-patrol/1571349755001/
http://www.military.com/video/operations-and-strategy/air-strikes/apache-30mm-vs-insurgents-boat/2165515334001/

Jayb, judging by all those links you posted, one could be excused for thinking you are one under god born again.

csteele my often repeated question was not specifically asked of you.

"Why should we bother ?"

Has been asked a number of times but no one has ever given a reason
why we should accept Moslems into this country.
They are just too much trouble, so why should we bother ?

csteele, it is a crime to advocate anyone commit a crime.
Any moslem advocating the killing of anyone for any reason whatsoever
has committed a crime and should be imprisoned.

rehctub: Jayb, judging by all those links you posted, one could be excused for thinking you are one under god born again.

Aah! but which "God." ;-)

No, csteel asked me for a link. (Twice.) So I obliged him. That is all. I don't expect that he will look at them or answer any of my questions. Do you? Nah!

Xin loi.

Dear Froggie,

I didn't assert you supported the act but that you supported the right.

Be that as it may we both know that getting the man on 'misuse of the postal and telecommunication services' is the equivalent of nailing Capone on tax fraud. If he had of hand delivered the letters then he could not have been charged.

You wrote;

“I accept your assertion that you are in favour of free speech, and I hope you will continue to do so.”

No I am not in favour of unqualified free speech, I think there are limits that should be imposed the likes of which would have covered the 'Sheik's' actions even if he had hand delivered the letters.

You wrote;

“Bear in mind that it is the ideology of Islam that we are criticising, and also those that advocate it.” I have no problem with anyone criticising fundamentalists of any religion. It is when it is hatefully and maliciously extended to all who profess a particular faith then it deserves to shown for what it is. Poison peddling.

Dear Bazz,

You wrote;

csteele, it is a crime to advocate anyone commit a crime.
Any moslem advocating the killing of anyone for any reason whatsoever
has committed a crime and should be imprisoned.

So when my acquaintance in the initial post spoke of “The atomic bombings of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki quietened the japs down in the mid 40's i think history should repeat its self and wipe these disgusting cretins out” I assume you are happy to acknowledge he is advocating killing people.

Therefore should he be imprisoned?

Or were you referring to Muslims specifically?

As to why bother I can only answer personally, the Muslims I know are kind and gentle and whom I am happy to accept as Australians wanting to lead productive lives and contribute to this country.

Again, you are wrong, Mr Steele. I do not support the right of anyone to directly harass bereaved people in the guise of free speech. I hope I have made myself clear. The recent court case confirmed that such action was illegal, in any event

Csteele is a bit lost using things like the end of a war that saw Japan commit so many cruel mass murders and rape.
Yet conveniently only remembers its end, not the deaths of hundreds of thousands of soldiers in an invasion, but a quicker end.
Not even getting close to that country's hate filled cruelty even to its own.
Helpful however, in taking the spot light from those csteele defends,and from the thought they, by inference,are free to say as they wish,we are not.

At the end of the day, Australia is not a place for the Muslim faith, as we are, and should always remain, a peace loving nation.

Now if the Muslims didn't support those within, who support violent acts, such as beheading, it may be a different story, but their religion does support such acts, so the only option for us, if we wish to continue our peaceful existence, is to ban the religion, not the people as such, but the religion.

Of cause if the people wish to continue practicimg their religion, then we won't stop them, they just have to find another country to do it in.

There is enough evidence from countries that have been open to multiculturalism, far longer than us, to suggest multiculturalism if a failure, where Muslims are involved, as they (or a large portion at least) simply will not assimilate and will not respect us for who we are.

Do we have to be slow learners all the time!

Beautifully said rehctub. I was composing the very exact thing when I read your Post.

Csteel: “The atomic bombings of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki quietened the japs down in the mid 40's.

Deflection! again! The World was at in a horrific War at that time. The decision to drop the bomb was the lesser of two options. When you only have two options, you take the lesser. Unless you follow Islam of course. Strange thing about those two cities. The prevailing thought is that no one can live in a nuclear devastated area for thousands of years. What, Nagasaki & Hiroshima?

Answer my questions please. I'm sure everybody here is waiting, with baited breath, for your answers. Let have a show of support here.

Jayb; csteele's question to me was not about Hiroshima at all but
about the unnamed mass of people referred to loosely as moslems.

csteele;
I don't think the case you used would be sufficiently specific to
support a charge, and it could not be shown that the speaker had any
possibility of causing anyone to act so.
However an imman in a mosque saying that those that insult Islam or
the prophet etc etc should be killed is very different.
He may well have followers that would do just that and it can be
shown that is just what they did do in other cases.
Also the Koran tells them that it is their duty to do so.

I presume that you can see the difference.
Further I think that the Koran may well be an illegal publication
because it does advocate the killing of Jews and other persons not
of the Islamic faith and those that oppose it.

It would be an interesting exercise to publish a "New Bible" that
advocated the killing of moslems under certain circumstances such as
the destruction of churches. It could lift chapters from the Koran
and just change the appropriate words.

I can only presume that there would be an unholy uproar, (pun intended).

Just because the Koran has a first publication date in the 7th century
does not excuse it from our laws.

An interesting exercise, for a lawyer that wants to take the risk,
would be to initalise a case against an islamic bookshop !

Sorry Bazz. Interesting case about the Koran you bring up. Charges; incitement to riot. Incitement to kill. Incitement to paedophile. Incitement to bestiality. Incitement to commit Treason. Bloody 'ell, the list would be endless.

Csteel: I find your refusal to answer my questions insulting & I am offended by your lake of response. Did you watch any of the Video you asked for? After all I did go out of my way to accommodate your request. Please, I implore you to give a straight yes or no answer to my questions.

csteel & others of your ilk. I just see one of your friends has killed 5 innocent civilians in Kabul, but I suppose you would think that it was OK because it was for Allah & the cause.

Dear Bazz,

Please don't worry about Belly and Jayb, both have faux misconstruing down to a fine art and are just baiting. The alternative is that they are a touch challenged, hard to completely rule that out of course.

You wrote;

“However an imman in a mosque saying that those that insult Islam or the prophet etc etc should be killed is very different.”

I agree but only in the sense that he has an identifiable set of followers.

Rwanda is one of the most Christianised countries in Africa but the poison being propagated against an ethnic group grew within the community to such an extent that it started being touted from the pulpit.

If an Imman in a mosque in Australia is calling for the death of those that insult Islam or a Christian preacher is promoting violence against gays then I want them sanctioned by my community and those we have delegated power to do so, full stop.

If a young male in my community is calling for the killing of Muslims then I would want those views challenged. Our attitudes toward our indigenous folk have changed dramatically in the last 20 years, much of it through community members letting poison peddlers exactly what they deemed was unacceptable vilification. What we have created in this country has been achieved through a lot of hard work. I want the blow torch put to anyone who attempts to threaten it.

Dear Jayb,

Sorry my friend I didn't open any of your links. You have a track record for posting things you have claimed as factual and we have shown them to be any thing but. Slips can happen to all of us but the fact you refused to apologise for any of them has labelled you as someone not worth the bother. But post some more if you like.

So, csteel, you are admitting you are an Islamist. You do want Australia to become an Islamic Caliphate. You do support terrorists & the killing of innocent civilians by Islamic bombers. You do support the idea of forcing Australians to become Muslims. What a peaceful person you are.

Csteel: Sorry my friend I didn't open any of your links. You have a track record for posting things you have claimed as factual and we have shown them to be anything but.

You have not shown anything of the sort. There has only been one thing of which it was not proven I was wrong, but you tried to make a mountain out of a mole hill out of it & that really didn't work. It had nothing to do with this subject any way. This is deflection again. but that's exactly what you are a champion at doing. Isn't it.

These videos are Islamic people telling the West just what Islam is & what they are going to do to us. You are deflecting again. But that's what Islamist do. One of the videos has lessons in how to do it. I gather you have studied that video before any way.

Csteel, Master of Deception & Deflection. Aah.. I luv ya sweet pea. You are so funny it terrifies me.

.....If an Imman in a mosque in Australia is calling for the death of those that insult Islam or a Christian preacher is promoting violence against gays then I want them sanctioned by my community and those we have delegated power to do so, full stop.

Ar Csteel, and there in lies the problem, THE MUSLIM LEADERS HERE IN OZ CAN'T CONTROL THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

This is why I say the religion must go, as if their leaders can't control them, what hope do we have.

Now while I don't have any time for gays myself, I don't think they should be attacted as such, however, I don't know of any Christian preacher suggesting that all gays be beheaded, do you?

Rechtub a truth, some times the leader has too much control over those he preaches hate to.
Csteele has a view, most disagree.
But let us drop the curtain and see the whole picture.
Muslims have lived in peace here for generations.
And in truth given no one reason to hate or fear them, many new arrivals will be like that.
Surely we agree.
But them term Muslim covers many Nations and many country,s.
Some well educated some far from it.
Australia is and will remain a country that keeps its politics separate from religion.
Many followers of Islam can not do that, the very holly book they live by demands they do not.
In increasing, numbers teachers of hate, teach add ons, things the Koran never once said, not that we need look further than that book to excuse our feelings.
We in the west, increasingly, are moveing towards science, not religion.
Yet face some we housed, who demand sharia law, in our country.
Csteele set us loose, to give our thoughts, but the thread was never an honest one.
IF it was it would have included worldwide horrible things said by uneducated primitive car flogging bigots, against us.
It too would address the evil done to women in some Muslim country,s.
These things will one day be addressed, the day Muslim hate takes the world in to a war.
Unlikely? well we can can progress mankind if a God that never existed rules such a big part DEMANDING OUR DEATHS, war will come.

csteel: As requested by you. More links for an Islamic hypocrite to ignore.

More Good Islamists committing peaceful acts in name of Allah. Oh well. It saves the West a job. Allahua Ackbah!

http://news.yahoo.com/mob-pakistani-city-torches-christian-homes-110658171.html
http://news.yahoo.com/afghanistan-two-suicide-bombers-strike-first-day-hagels-140356778.html

Good Morning Gentlemen,

People who enjoy the rights of free speech have
a duty to respect other people's rights. A person's
freedom of speech is limited by the rights of others.

All democratic societies put various limitations on
what people may say. They prohibit certain types of
speech that they believe might harm others.
Urging violence, libel, slander, offending public decency
by using obscenities or by encouraging people to commit
acts considered immral - all fall under the major
restrictions on free expression and should be adhered to
by everyone in a civilised society.

The development of freedom of speech in most Western
countries has been brought about through the growth of
democratic governments based on the rule of law.
That is something that we should not want to change.

Lexi: All democratic societies put various limitations on what people may say. They prohibit certain types of speech that they believe might harm others.

I agree Lexi, but there is one word there that makes a big difference. That word is "Might."

Scenario. Take an unrelated group of people at any venue. Someone comes in feeling very happy & just starts to sing. One of these PC types confronts the person & says, "Stop that you "MIGHT" offend someone," or they feel offended. Nobody says anything & the person stops singing. Then, one person stands up & asks the question, "Who was offended by this person singing." Strangely no one puts their hand up. Not even the the person who demanded the happy person stop singing. When confronted, they say that they were only thinking that others "might" be offended, that's why they spoke up.

These PC types take unfair advantage of “The Rule.”

The "assumption" that someone "Might" be offended is a bad one. As I was taught in the Army, "Never assume." There-in lays the dilemma. Do we NOT do something just because "someone might" be offended. Do we stop doing something just because a few people in a large crowd "Might" be offended. When most people in the large crowd clearly are not offended. If only a few people are offended then THEY should leave. That goes for breast feeding problem as well.

If Islamists are offended by other belief systems in Australia or our customs & want us to change, especially by using covert & violent means, then they should leave or made to leave forcibly if necessary.

Lexi,

How dare you interrupt the momentum with a reasonable and well-balanced post.

Now, if you don't mind, we'll get back to the hysteria.

: )

Dear Jay,

This isn't about political correctness.
As I stated in my earlier post - most
democratic countries have four major
restrictions on free expression:

1) Laws covering libel and slander prohibit
speech or publication that harms a person's
reputation.

2) Laws that forbid speech that offends public
decency by using obsenities or by encouraging
people to commit acts considered immoral.

3) Laws against spying, treason, and urging violence
prohibits speech that endangers life, property,
or national security.

These laws in most Western countries have been brought
about through the growth of democratic governments
based on the rule of law.

Dear Poirot,

To many Westerners Islamic fundamentalism seems like an
almost scandalous return to a medieval morality. It
conjures forth images of women behind veils, of
adulterers being stoned, of theives having their
hands cut off, of public floggings and executions, of
martyrdom in holy wars, and, in extreme cases, of
political fanaticism exemplified in aircraft hijackings
and terrorist bombings.

Thsi picture is rather distorted, for it is based on
what is newsworthy rather than what is typical.

Therefore it isn't suprising that some posters buy into
what a small minority does and tars the majority with the
same brush. We've seen it all in the past. Certain politicians
make political mileage out of it. That's the way the game is
played.

Then there are those whose notions of nationhood
are seen as incompatible with diversity. These beliefs are
expressed in various stereotyped views of who the "real"
Australians are. This is an ideology of national culture
in which minority cultures are regarded as alien and a
threat to social cohesion. It consists of pervasive cultural
assumptions where the customs and beliefs of the domiant
group in society are presented as the norm.

As a result, the status and behaviour of minority groups,
particularly those who are more visibly different,
are defined and judge with respect to the
dominant group of largely
British and Celtic backgrounds.

These attitudes are widely discussed in the media where
they are presented as reasonable and commonsense.
They don't accurately portray Australia's
cultural diversity.

Lexi: This isn't about political correctness. As I stated in my earlier post - most democratic countries have four major restrictions on free expression:

But Political Correctness is used by minorities to force the majority to change their culture to a less desirable culture, Like Islam.

1) Laws covering libel and slander prohibit speech or publication that harms a person's reputation.

That covers a lot. No one is allowed to debate in a reasonable manner the Cons or make a genuine criticism of a minority under the threat of Racisms or such like from a minority. Therefore Free Speech is stifled.

2) Laws that forbid speech that offend public decency by using obscenities or by encouraging people to commit acts considered immoral.

Well when it comes to obscenities in public, that would put a lot of young women on the spot now, wouldn't it. Immoral means different things to different people. Immoral to a Westerner would be putting people into Slavery, Sex, and Drugs etc. To an Islamist Immoral would mean being a non- Muslim.

3) Laws against spying, treason, and urging violence, prohibits speech that endangers life, property, or national security.

Well that buggars your Habeebi & that other traitorous clown & most Islamists in a mob. Doesn’t it.

These laws in most Western countries have been brought about through the growth of democratic governments based on the rule of law.

Exactly & we live in the 21 Century. Islam has yet to reach that. They never will because their Koran forbids it. It is a publication that encourages, spying, treason, and urging violence, prohibits speech that endangers life, property, & national security. Islam is an alternate form of Government under the guise of a peaceful religion, which it is not.

It now appears people have 2 main points of objection to the present refugees.
1 violence & crime.
2 failure to assimilate.

Another factor which is to me reasons for wanting them stopped.

1 85% still on welfare after being here over 5 years.

minor reasons.
The failure of some to even want to learn English

This one will be contentious - The size of the family, which is much larger than the average westerner. (this could be a potential problem but years away)

Don't you get it? Am I the only one that gets it? It's a trick.

All this hand-wringing about Islam is a smokescreen intended to distract us from the real danger:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83tnWFojtcY

Cheers,

Tony

Until comparatively recently our free speach laws were not a problem.
No one ever mentioned them or discussed them.
It has all changed, now everyone seems to be worried if something they
might say will offend someone.
Did all this start with, OH you cannot have Santa or Christmas decorations
because someone might be offended.
I wonder if the someone could be moslems ?
If not who ?

Is it not time to say, if you don't like it, tough !
It is has got to the state where the government is going to legally gag us.

Dear Jay,

I'm back from hospital recovering from a most
unpleasant procedure and my apologies as I
don't want to argue at great length with you.
Suffice to say that I can see we're not going
to see eye-to-eye on this issue. I judge
people as I find them. Tarring everyone with
the same brush does not allow for individual
differences. Fundamentalists can be found in any
religious group - not only Muslims.

Dear Bazz,

A person must be both stupid and uncharitable
who believes there is no virtue or truth but on
his own side. I don't believe that you're such a man.

Philip s while we do not get on, such is life, your quoted figure that 85% remain on welfare is of concern.
I too think we are being defrauded by sections of the refugee/Migrant community,and our own on welfare.
But if you are right,and I am not saying you are not, this is a betrayal of us all.
Any links?
And while wasting my time, to point out a few, on one side of the debate, not all sides, to in effect want to stop free speech? what next csteele. Poirot?
Do these exponents of harnessing a fools right to free speech, do you folks agree with the quick death that would come in say North Korea if some spoke the truth.
Or is this thread strictly about Muslim rights?

Belly - Do a search for "settlement outcomes of new arrivals" You should find it will be the first result.

Further from Denmark the Government issued a report suggesting migrants from non-Western countries cost the state $3.5 billion a year, while those from the West contributed $450 million in taxes. Now you see why Wilders was so concerned.

Lexi: I'm back from hospital recovering from a most unpleasant procedure and my apologies as I don't want to argue at great length with you.

I sincerely hope all went well & I'm sure you'll be feeling better in no time.

Lexi: Suffice to say that I can see we're not going to see eye-to-eye on this issue. I judge people as I find them.

I do to Lexi. It's not the individual that is the problem but a group of individuals that make a mob. Except in the case of PC, where a group if individuals haven't got the guts to stand up against one PC nutcase.

Lexi: Tarring everyone with the same brush does not allow for individual differences. Fundamentalists can be found in any religious group - not only Muslims.

Oh I agree with you whole heartedly. One only has to look at the Christian Fundamentalists (especially in America) to see a big problem. Some friends of mine went on a paid evangelist trip to America. They stayed with local Baptist Church people. Their house & the houses of these peoples friends were armed nightmares. All they ever talked about was the Coming of Jesus to save them from all the other Christian Groups, Anti- Christs & The Government coming to get them. Apparently the Basement of the house was filled with explosives & arms of every description. They have since ceased to be Baptists.

Hi csteel, Piorot, & other like minded folk. Still haven't answered any of my questions csteel. Piorot & others if you would like to answer the questions, please feel free. I feel that it's very rude & not at all PC to ignore my reasonable request.

Once again here are the questions.

1. Do you believe in the Qur’an?
2. Do you want Sharia Law in Australia?
3. Do you believe in Jihad for Australia?
4. Do you want Australia to become an Islamic Caliphate?

Simple, straightforward, to the point. Will you answer, “yes” to all of these or will you deflect the questions.

This is an interesting debate from the BBC about this very subject...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfxNG_TM8J4

OK Blokes maybe we should retreat.
The lady,s are upset with our brand of free speech.
Maybe we should leave them to the cucumber sandwich and leave the Field of battle.
Unless we change tack,stop defending something they do not approve of, free speech mumble Allah Akbar and leave.

It is interesting repeatedly seeing examples illustrating my point continuing through this thread.

The peddlers are disingenuously grabbing statistics to propagate their poison then the ignorant and gullible consume them to reinforce their preconceived stereotypes.

For instance Philip S. writes;

“Another factor which is to me reasons for wanting them stopped... 85% still on welfare after being here over 5 years”

And Belly reacts in with; “your quoted figure that 85% remain on welfare is of concern.
I too think we are being defrauded by sections of the refugee/Migrant community,and our own on welfare.”

So where does the 85% figure come from? The pen of one of our greatest poison peddlers Mr Bolt. “85 per cent of refugees on Centrelink benefits in their first five years here”. Note here he was being a little more circumspect. That is because as the report from which he got his figures states;

“It must be understood that Centrelink payments are not only unemployment benefits but also include Youth Allowance, Austudy and child care rebates.”

So what is what is the unemployment figure, those receiving unemployment benefits from our humanitarian refugees after 5 years?

Answer 12.6%

I will admit that it is not ideal and virtually double that of the rest of the country, but the fact that many have limited English and other issues like health when they get here I don't think it is too dramatic.

The number directly employed in their first year is around 20% but within the first few years this quickly doubles to around 40%.

One should remember even the number of skilled migrants receiving Centre Link benefits is nearly 30%.

http://www.immi.gov.au/media/publications/research/_pdf/settlement-outcomes-new-arrivals.pdf

Poison peddlers!

I take it csteel, by your refusal to answer a few very simple questions that you answer "YES" to all of my questions. Now we know just who you are & exactly what you stand for.

See, if you say no,& you do, you are deigning Allah & that would be
a xin in Islam, wouldn't it? Your friends would have to come around & cut your head off, wouldn't they? Now that was easy, wasn't it? ;-)

Now we know just who the real "poison peddler" is, don't we?

Excellent, Jayb,

You construct many strawmen questions...and then (!) you answer them yourself in the affirmative!

How illuminating : )

Poirot: You construct many strawmen questions...and then (!) you answer them yourself in the affirmative!

How is that a strawman question poirot. It's a valid question, there is no trickery. They are simple, straight forward & to the point & only require a yes or no answer. Any 4 year old could answer them. If csteel refuses to answer then "One can only Presume to Assume." as the old saying goes.

I pose the same questions to you dear poirot. Will you answer them? I think not.

1. Do you believe in the Qur’an?
2. Do you want Sharia Law in Australia?
3. Do you believe in Jihad for Australia?
4. Do you want Australia to become an Islamic Caliphate?

Jayb,

Further reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Belly.....And in truth given no one reason to hate or fear them, many new arrivals will be like that.

Remember, it only takes one terrorist. Is it really worth the risk?

Lexi....People who enjoy the rights of free speech have
a duty to respect other people's rights. A person's
freedom of speech is limited by the rights of others.

Try telling this to the radical Muslims that our governments have let in.

Jayb, they seem to be reasonable questions to me, I would like to know the answers as well.

csteele - Having a discussion with you is like talking to a brick wall on 3 occasions I reminded you of questions I asked that you did not reply to.

Then to quote you "I will answer one of your past questions or a new one, poisonous or not." Seems like you are chicken to get into any type of debate as you call everyone's questions poison. You only want to answer 1 question. What a joke.

Your 12.6% figure is irrelevant because 85% were still on welfare after being here over 5 years which is money from the taxpayer, in other words we give them more than they give to Australia.

Also with the Government cooking the books a refugee could only work a few hours and then he would be classed as not on centerlink payments even though he was getting a large proportion of the payment from centerlink, or doing work for the dole.

85% ON WELFARE IS 85% ON WELFARE NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.

Last year we had 17,202 people arrive on boats put 85% on some form of welfare for 5 or more years WHY SHOULD OTHERS AND MYSELF HAVE TO SUPPORT THEM, you pay for them this year they expect 25 to 30 THOUSAND to arrive NO WAY, don't forget we are already BILLIONS in debt.

Rechtub I stand by my thought, many are no threat.
Good lawd bloke we are not that xenophobic.
Let us not feed csteele and those who say we are, by such claims.
I am willing to bet you could even get to like some Muslims if you knew them.
This thread farms over the top comments.
In truth ISLAM needs conflict its part of the very DNA of the radical side of this faith, a day will come they force it on the world.

Belly - Quote "many are no threat." with propensity to violence I would agree but it only took four Islamist home-grown terrorists in London to do the damage and 19 hijackers so on 911.

Economically they are potentially a massive future problem considering we are now BILLIONS of dollars in debt.

85% ON WELFARE IS 85% ON WELFARE NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.

We only have to look at Islamic state to see that the radicals DO force their fanatic ideology on the ordinary Muslim that just wants to be left in peace. The Taliban, in Afghanistan & Pakistan & the other stans around that area. Al Qaeda in Iraq, Yemen & Oman, Nigeria, Mali, Chad, Somalia, North Africa, Sudan & now Syria. The Wahid in Saudi Arabia. All these places suppress their citizens (innocent civilians)using terror, or are terrorizing them into becoming fanatics or killing them as Al Qaeda did in Timbuktu

I take it that csteel & poirot are OK with this & think it should be happening here.

Lexi, I have never misrepresentation csteel's position. However csteel has done exactly that with every argument anyone has put up. You have it all upside down as usual. csteels position is all to plain to me. He is an Islamist. He does follow the Koran. He does want Australia to become an Islamic Caliphate by violent means if necessary & it would be necessary. Therefore, he gives me impression that he is very possibly a terrorist. Otherwise he would have said that the Koran is not his Book, etc.

Belly, I domt hate Muslims and I habe seen some really good ones, here in Oz.

But, even they can't filter out the good from bad, so it is for that reason that I hold my position, that Australia is no place for this type of religion, a religion that KNOWINGLY harbors EXTREEM VIOLENCE towards anyone who dares disagree with their views.

Now if they wish to practice this type of garbage in their country, go ahead, knock themselves out for all i care, BUT NOT HERE!

Dear Jay, rehctub, and others,

I'm not trying to be deliberately contentious here.
Nor is it my intention to disrespect any of your
views. We're all entitled to our opinions - as long
as they don't harm others and of course people who
break our laws should be held responsible - same as
anyone else. What I do object to however is people spreading
hate speech and inciting violence be they Christian, Muslim,
and so on. I don't think that anyone is arguing for the
allowance of violence. Perhaps we should all take a deep
breath and start our conversations again in a more
civilised manner?

Dear Lexi,

Just to ease the pain;

"A British woman convicted of racism after calling her New Zealand-born neighbour an Australian has had her name cleared.

Last November, Petra Mills was arrested after calling her neighbour a "stupid fat Australian" during a drunken tirade on her front lawn.

The neighbour, Chelsea O'Reilly, says Ms Mills knew she was born in New Zealand but used the term "Australian" to offend her.

Ms Mills was charged with racially aggravated public disorder and fined $162.

However, the local court in the city of Chester has overturned the decision, ruling that using the word "Australian" is not a racist slur.

Ms Mills has since moved to north Wales to escape the embarrassment caused by her conviction."

ABC news

csteele - So what is your point?

Hi all,

It is pretty standard practice that those who have their favourite talking point demolished through the application of facts quickly develop a tendency to get rather shrill.

This is someone getting shrill.

“85% ON WELFARE IS 85% ON WELFARE NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.”

If it is something they have been really fond of and forms a substantive part of their attack then they get doubly shrill and sometimes, on quite rare occasions, if they keenly feel its loss, they will go on to repeat their message, again in the same shrill style.

“85% ON WELFARE IS 85% ON WELFARE NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.”

Shrill denial is most often a trait found in fundamentalist preachers and clerics but extends to other poison peddlers as well.

Dear Lexi,

I am sorry if this post disappoints you and your call for civility which I truly respect. However of late I am of a mind to challenge this type of thinking head on. I deeply abhor it and the risks it poses for our society. I deliberately withheld from a couple of obnoxious article threads but floated this one after seeing some of the poison striking too close to home.

Best to give me up as a lost cause over this issue I'm afraid.

csteel: It is pretty standard practice that those who have their favourite talking point demolished through the application of facts quickly develop a tendency to get rather shrill.

And boy have you become shrill lately, almost defining defending terrorists.

Still haven't answered the questions.

For my mind the Koran is a vile book calling for violence & the over through of Democratic Governments by violence. Therefore it is a traitorous book & should be banned in Australia along with those who follow that book & the w@N#3r who wrote it.

Answer my questions steely.

csteele - Now it will be 4 times I have to remind you regarding questions you have failed to answer, do you have something to hide that warrants your avoiding the questions?

Now to be consistent you fail to answer my question above instead you try to divert attention away from yourself.

It is also noted that you have no negating facts to the statement that you classify as shrill.

Every time you put fingers to keyboard you forget to activate brain first. Try answering the questions maybe then you will be able to win people over to you side.

csteele's lesson is obviously that countries who accept migrants must always be diligent in screening them.

The drunken Czech–born Petra Mills who kicks English Bobbies in the shins, engages in domestic affrays with her spouse and says rude things to neighbours is not the sort of person one would invite home for tea. London to a brick she is also on welfare.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9693082/Guilty-of-racism-the-woman-who-called-a-Kiwi-a-fat-Aussie.html

It is worse of course where violent SOBs who will not accept our laws are imported, but some are. What to do about that is the question.

csteele - To quote you "However of late I am of a mind to challenge this type of thinking head on."

I like your tactic for challenging something "head on" by refusing to answer any questions you are asked.

Dear Philip S,

My apologies.

After a number days and half a dozen posts without a question from you to answer as I had promised, you finally did indeed ask me one that to be perfectly honest nearly slipped me by.

And congratulations to you, it wasn't one loaded with poison as I had thought it might be.

You asked;

“csteele - So what is your point?”

Why point was to cheer Lexi up with a post that told of the term 'Australian' being deemed to be offensive. I found it amusing and I hoped she did too.

End of story.

csteele - Typical you failed to answer the hard questions, I will reiterate what I previously said before "Having a discussion with you is like talking to a brick wall".

To anyone reading this thread from the start you have lost any credibility, you have simply avoided many questions asked by various people.

Philip s have I missed it?
I asked for evidence 85% remain on welfare 5 years after they arrive.
Now lets not get too far away from my thoughts, not what you think I think.
I think Muslim migration, is an unwanted danger to my country.
Not because all Muslims are a danger, but the exclusiveness of most.
The radicalism of many, the demands of the faith, are un-Australian, and not comparable with western life styles.
But you, and Rechtub, use it only takes, as a reason to exclude the whole.
It only takes!
Do you understand we, almost certainly have more than four would be terrorists who are WASP here now?
I am solidly against the migration of these hard liners.
But remember the lie, a shop would not sell was it Anzac biscuits?
I fancy no evidence can be found to support you claims.
And that mate is providing me evidence of your extremist views.

Mr C Steele talks about "poison peddling" and how such "peddlers" should be held accountable. They ARE held accountable in the court of public opinion. Personally, I think it is better that these views be exposed to the hard light of day, and not allowed to fester in secret. Therefore I support free speech, even that of people who promulgate detestable ideas. As for the "social media" rant that brought this to Mr Steele's attention, it was that of an obviously ill-educated person, who was reacting on a purely emotional level. I do think the reaction was extreme, but unfortunately the nature of Islam does tend to provoke that kind of emotional reaction, in both its followers and its opponents. These emotional reactions lead to all sorts of bloody consequences, which are regularly reported.
I hope and assume that Mr Steele would not agree with the sentiments espoused by the Imam of the Grand Mosque of Mecca. This article is from the Australian, I reproduce it in full because it is behind a pay wall

"THE imam of the Grand Mosque of Mecca, who has called for the annihilation of Jews, is scheduled to give the keynote address at the Australian Islamic Peace Conference in Melbourne this weekend.

The attendance of Abdul Rahman al-Sudais will come despite calls from the Executive Council of Australian Jewry and several Christian groups for the imam to be denied entry to Australia.

Sheik Sudais, who has called for violent jihad, has been denied entry to the US and Canada after describing Jews as "the scum of humanity" and "pigs and monkeys". The 53-year-old's name and face do not appear on the event leaflets, which were posted on the conference Facebook page on Sunday evening.

Instead, they denote him as "Imam of Makkah" and show the Saudi in profile, with a cloth obstructing his facial features.

They also note that conference guests "are subject to visa approval as well as their personal circumstances". Federation of Islamic Councils assistant secretary Keysar Trad said there was no comparison to be made between calls for Dutch anti-Islam activist Geert Wilders to be denied a visa on his recent visit to Australia, and similar calls regarding Sheik Sudais.

"One person may have made comments in anger. The other has made it his personal mission to go around the world telling lies about Muslims," Mr Trad said.

An Immigration Department spokesman was unable to confirm whether or not Sheik Sudais had been granted a visa for privacy reasons, but he said anyone who wished to enter Australia must be assessed against character and health requirements.

"It is not illegal to hold radical views, but visitors to Australia should be aware we do have laws against inciting violence and racial vilification," he said.

Other invited conference guests include Australian Sheik Abu Hamza, who ridiculed laws that prohibit rape within marriage, and Sheik Assim al-Hakeem, from the United Arab Emirates, who has called for homosexuality to be punished by death and on his website compares gay people to "animals that seek only their sexual satisfaction through their weird ways".

Sheik Sudais is not listed among the speakers on the conference website, which touts the occasion as the "largest, biggest and best ever Islamic event in the history of Australia" and says it aims to build links with other faiths and the broader Australian society.

Conference organiser Waseem Rizvi, of the Islamic Research and Educational Academy, had previously been recorded boasting that Julia Gillard was among guests who had accepted invitations to speak at the conference.

A spokesperson for the Prime Minister yesterday confirmed she had received an invitation, but conference organisers had been advised she was unable to attend.

Ms Gillard will be in Melbourne on Saturday morning, attending an event at Essendon Airport, two suburbs away from the three-day conference. Conference organisers have declined repeated requests for comment from several media organisations including The Australian.

Mr Trad said Sheik Sudais was renowned for his recitations of the Koran.

"People can change and sometimes they say comments out of anger which they would retract when they calm down," he said.

"I would hope he would retract these comments and reconcile with the people he may have offended."

End of article. Here we have the unelected spokesman for Islam in Australia, Mr Keysar Trad, dissimulating and trying to deflect any criticism of Islam, as he regularly does. This Sheik is not alone in his views, as is noted in the article. Mr Trad calls Mr Geert Wilders' views as "lies' about Islam. How can they be "lies" when they are drawn directly from the utterings of people like Sheik Sudais, which in turn come directly from the Koran? Geert Wilders uses videos and quotes coming from Islamists themselves. Are the Islamists ashamed of their views, that they need to retract them in order to present a more reasonable image to the Western Society? Maybe Mr Steele could take a hard look at the real "hate peddlers" and not just focus on the, admittedly, extremist reaction to those people.

Belly - Are you completely stupid you say I never provided the source, to quote you further "I fancy no evidence can be found to support you claims. And that mate is providing me evidence of your extremist views."

NOW LOOK AT THE COMMENT DIRECTLY BELOW WHERE YOU ASKED FOR THE LINK.

HERE IS MY REPLY.
Belly - Do a search for "settlement outcomes of new arrivals" You should find it will be the first result.

Further from Denmark the Government issued a report suggesting migrants from non-Western countries cost the state $3.5 billion a year, while those from the West contributed $450 million in taxes. Now you see why Wilders was so concerned.
Posted by Philip S, Sunday, 10 March 2013 6:10:24 PM

An optometrist would be a good place for you to visit today.

Dear csteele,

It's only natural to react when the right
buttons are pushed - especially on such
emotive issues as those that arise on this
forum. I've lost it many times. Yet, at the same
time - I've also learned that no matter how
heated things can get - most people are decent
human beings - even though we don't happen to
agree at times.

We've seen that people in different walks of
life will interpret the same phenomenon -
whether it's a riot, a PM's policies, a
religious doctrine - in very different ways.
In other words, people tend to see the world from
a viewpoint of subjectivity - an interpretation
based on personal views and experiences. Inevitably,
like anyone else we're all guilty of some
measure of bias - the tendency, often unconscious, to
interpret facts according to one's own values.

I guess what we should try to recognise is that
subjectivity and objectivity are not two neat and
separate categories, they're really matters of degree.
By exercising scrupulous caution we can attempt to be
as objective as possible.

In my view you have always presented your opinions -
giving as objective an
account as possible. Your arguments are always well
reasoned and fair. And I enjoy reading them.
My earlier post was merely a plea to those who are
tempted to stoop to personal insults on issues to
try to refrain from doing so. I don't see you as one
of those people.

Dear Froggie,

Thank you for posting the article.

I have on many occasions on this forum railed against Saudi Wahhabism. I have asked repeatedly why we are kicking the crap out of a weak, blighted country like Afghanistan when it is the poison coming out of Saudi Arabia that was directly responsible for events like 9/11. I have exposed the fact that hundreds of millions of Australian dollars are being spent in Indonesia just to try and counter Saudi dollars poisoning Indonesian children. I have raised some of the brutal incidents of foreign workers being beheaded in Saudi Arabia for so called crimes that would have seen them free from sanction here. I have spoken of them funding hard-line Islamic groups and the amount of money that found its way into the hands of Al Qaeda.

Why do we let them get away with it? Purely because of the money. It is the reason George Bush Senior was sitting down with Osama Bin Laden's family for breakfast on the morning of 9/11. It is the reason they were spirited through out of the country through military controlled airspace.

It is not just the oil but the fact that Saudi Arabia is the largest purchaser of US armaments creating thousands of American jobs. This particular gentleman was a direct appointee of the Saudi Royal family therefore he still has access to the US and the UK.

New migrants, especially those we accept for humanitarian reasons, are always going to present us with challenges yet I am confident that as a country we can work through those difficulties and stand taller for having done so.

What I deeply resent is any one making that job harder and the likes of Wilders and this character have the potential to do just that.

I apologize, csteel. I seemed to have missed where you answered Phillip S & my questions. I can't find them anywhere.

May we have those answers again please?

I see the 3 Muslim apologists are all in agreeance again. You know, if you like the Muslim lifestyle so much why don't you all go & live your idyllic lifestyle in an appropriate Muslim country & take the pornographic & violent book you would die for with you.

Dear Jayb,

Lexi has kindly spoken about my objectiveness for which I thank her.

Yet I acknowledge a degree of subjectiveness with which I have approached this thread.

I feel that 'exercising scrupulous caution' in an 'attempt to be as objective as possible' is probably been beyond me on this issue. It is why I have chosen to ignore those who wish to engage purely to further promote their poison. However watching you spiral into hysterics and stain your credibility with others has not been edifying and I am feeling a little guilty.

I will answer any three questions you now put to me and will attempt to be as objective as possible even if they are poison promoting.

csteele - I like your new approach if you don't like a question you call it "poison" thereby giving you in your mind the right to ignore it.

Just like I said before like talking to a brick wall.

csteel: I will answer any three questions you now put to me and will attempt to be as objective as possible even if they are poison promoting.

I don't see how you would consider these three questions as poison promoting. There is no need to be objective or deflective either. They are just 3 simple questions that only require a only a simple "Yes" or "No." I'm sure that is all that anyone on this forum would require to any question asked of you.

With that said. Here are my 3 questions;

1. Do you believe in the Qur’an as the only holy book?

2. Do you want Sharia Law to become the Law in Australia at some time in the future?

3. Do you want, or like to see, Australia to become an Islamic Caliphate at some time in the future?

The questions are simple, straightforward, to the point. There is no trickery or poison involved. You only have to answer, “yes” or "No" to them. There is no reason for you to deflect the questions with meaningless prattle on a different topic, as is your usual manner.

I've left room for a simple "cut & Paste" to make it easy for you. Just a simple "Yes" or "No," is all that is required. Thank you.

Dear Jayb,

1. No
2. No
3. No

And I thank you for moderating the tone of your questions.

Dear Philip S,

Do you beat your wife?

Csteel has answered my questions at last. Her answers are as follows:

1. Do you believe in the Qur’an?
"No"

2. Do you want Sharia Law in Australia?
"No"

3. Do you want Australia to become an Islamic Caliphate?
"No"

As for his question to Phillip S. I do believe the question should be;

"Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" Isn't that how it goes. ;-)

Logic Questions 101. #6.

Dear Mr Steele

Thank you for your response. You are right, new migrants will provide us with challenges. However I do feel that for some nationalities, integration and assimilation into the Australian way of life is much more difficult than for others.
Culture and religion can be insurmountable obstacles to successful integration. For example, I refer you to the 2005 London underground train bombings (plus one bus) in which 52 civilians died and seven hundred were injured. The perpetrators were four young Muslim men who were born in England. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_2005_London_bombings

These young men, even though born in England, were not integrated at all. In other words, their religion and culture came first in their minds.

I don't attribute the problems we are having with Islam only to the Saudis, as you do. This friction occurs all over the world wherever there are significant Muslim populations living in close proximity to non-Muslims. In addition, it has been going on for a very long time.

I do believe that the West needs to severely limit Muslim immigration.

Dear Froggie,

Fair enough but can I ask you how do you feel about us accepting Christian Serbian people into Australia when as a nation they ran concentration camps, the first since WW2 in Europe, slaughtered thousands of unarmed Croatian men and boys and ran rape camps?

Where would this stop??

No Sri Lankans? No Sudanese? The very reason a lot of these people are displaced is because of the violence within their homelands.

Should we instead look to our own circumstances rather than those of other countries and work out our own solutions. So far we have been pretty successful.

However I am dismayed about the closing of so many TAFE places. I think it severely limits the pathways for disaffected and disadvantaged youth of which understandably our migrant population is overly represented. Given the wrong environment risks of radicalising second generation migrants is increased. Some of the areas in England are really problematic and disfunctional. We have done and can do much better here.

Dear Jayb,

Tut Tut!

So instead of doing the cut and paste you so kindly offered you changed the wording of the questions and then applied my answers.

Some might call that underhanded and low, I prefer typical.

For instance;

“Do you want Sharia Law to become the Law in Australia at some time in the future?”

Became;

“Do you want Sharia Law in Australia?”

This is what you lot do all the time and it is disgraceful.

While I might not personally want Sharia Law I do want the rights we extend to some members of our Jewish community which allows them to live their lives, if they so choose, under their religious law and be judged by their religious courts, without negating in any way the primacy of Australian law, to be likewise extended to Moslem Australians.

I'm sure you knew that which is why you framed the initial question quite specifically.

As to the question I put to Philip S you need to learn the difference between presupposing the facts as well as trapping the answerer into a single answer which your version did (a clumsy tool at best), and using loaded language which was illustrated by mine.

Your questions are also of this variety.

“Such a question may be asked merely to harass or upset the respondent with no intention of listening to their reply, or asked with the full expectation that the respondent will predictably deny it.”
Wikipedia

So I think it might be my turn. Do you defend the 'Sheik's' right to free speech and to offend without state sanction or do you think, like I, he should cop some penalty even if he hand delivered the letters?

csteele - Now you have another way to divert attention away so you do not have to answer questions

To quote you "Dear Philip S, Do you beat your wife?"
A really intelligent comment from you you have excelled yourself trouble is it is only in your own eye's, to anyone with any sense you have FAILED, you now have no credibility.

I would have posted earlier but have reached 8 posts in one thread.

I apologise csteel I was only to make thing easier for you to understand but I see now that I did infact confuse the issue.

I can see that by adding "in the future" might be confusing if you wanted it now. The same thing with Australia becoming a Caliphate "in the future" if you want it now. And, with the Qur'an being the "only" holy book.

So I will ask my original questions in simplest manner of which they were first asked. I thank you for pointing this out to me.

1. Do you believe in the Qur’an?

2. Do you want Sharia Law in Australia?

3. Do you want Australia to become an Islamic Caliphate?

I do expect you not to answer these questions under the guise that you have already answered them. I am only replying to your complaint so answering them should be acceptable.

csteele you and I will never get along.
But you have been hooked with your own bait.
Do you see, no one thinks more than a few of your protected species wants those things, thrown at you here.
Just maybe, in defense as always of free speech, we need to hear the foolish/nasty/wrong things too.
How else will we know?

Belly - You are quick to accuse people of things and make snide comments but when you are proven wrong you fail to reply.
HERE IS A POST AGAIN
Belly - Are you completely stupid you say I never provided the source, to quote you further "I fancy no evidence can be found to support you claims. And that mate is providing me evidence of your extremist views."

NOW LOOK AT THE COMMENT DIRECTLY BELOW WHERE YOU ASKED FOR THE LINK.

HERE IS MY REPLY.
Belly - Do a search for "settlement outcomes of new arrivals" You should find it will be the first result.

Further from Denmark the Government issued a report suggesting migrants from non-Western countries cost the state $3.5 billion a year, while those from the West contributed $450 million in taxes. Now you see why Wilders was so concerned.
Posted by Philip S, Sunday, 10 March 2013 6:10:24 PM

An optometrist would be a good place for you to visit today.
Posted by Philip S, Tuesday, 12 March 2013 9:14:26 AM

Lexi: I'm back from hospital recovering from a most unpleasant procedure.

Well Lexi, not to be outdone I, too, have just come back from hospital from an unpleasant procedure. Although not of the same category.

I just chopped the top off my left ring finger with a Jointer, sort of large upside down Electric Woodwork Plane. The trouble was I was being overly careful. It's fine at the moment. We'll see in the morning. It'll take about 6 months to heal. I lost the nail & the tuft, which is the top half of the little bone at he end of the finger. Now don't go weak in the knees, it's fine. It makes typing somewhat difficult though.

Change of pace with a little Aussie humour.

Don't really care who the victim is but damn I hate a bully, always have always will.

Dear Philip S

That was not a link. Leaving aside the fact that Google returns search results often skewed by an individual's search history so someone may well have a different link at the top of their page, a link is something one can click. You are the one making the claim about the 85% and it is incumbent on you to furnish the source. While we don't require Harvard referencing citations on this forum it is good manners and good practice to at least provide a click-able link.

I managed it, so should you.

Dear Jayb,

Don't like hearing of anyone hurt so commiserations. Sounds bloody painful. I've had a few close shaves on the 3 phase panel saw, one that had me really spooked. These things happen so quickly.

As to my Lexi inspired acquiescence to answer your questions consider it now done and dusted.

csteele - The search info gave the url as the first link, you found it easy enough, Belly did not even try he just came back with this quote "I fancy no evidence can be found to support you claims. And that mate is providing me evidence of your extremist views." EVEN THOUGH THE INFORMATION WAS DIRECTLY BELOW HIS COMMENT.

Your whole argument above just defies logic as the search has the link first, maybe it is more a case of you thought you may be able to appease another poster by attacking me, like usual you fail.

Quote "Don't really care who the victim is but damn I hate a bully, always have always will." Try looking in a mirror you may find one. Also Belly attacked me first so that makes him the bully.

I personally hate people who post comments like this one of yours when in fact you know nothing about me. Quoting you "Dear Philip S, Do you beat your wife?"

As stated before having a discussion with you is like talking to a brick wall.

Dear Mr Steele
Thank you for your response. Sorry for the delay in mine. You asked whether I would be happy to accept Christian Serbian people into Australia. I would certainly be happy to accept those that weren't involved in the activities you describe. An important proviso would be that they don't bring their ancient enmities with them. Or at least don't manifest them in Australia. This is a prime example where Australia must give careful consideration to whom they allow into this country. We don't want a country where there are enclaves of people who refuse to learn the language, and refuse to adopt the Australian way of life. Multiculturalism often means that people have been encouraged to maintain their own culture, but not to integrate themselves into Australia. The Greeks, Italians, Dutch, Vietnamese have all maintained their culture but nevertheless have integrated, by and large, into the Australian identity. The culture of most immigrants allows them to integrate, but as I said before, the Islamic culture seems to prevent this, unless the person themselves, renounces in some way, Islamic precepts. I think we should be happy to accept anyone who is willing and able to adopt the Australian way of life.
The following is an example of non-integration, once again from the UK: http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2013/03/sexual-segregation-at-a-ucl-event-a-scandal-say-students

This article should be read, in the context of this discussion:

http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2013/01/muslim-patrols-are-a-sign-of-things-to-come

Philip s you appear by your own posts to be a hot headed right wing fool.
Just as dangerous in my view as csteele from the oposite side.
You spit and sling at me and as a result I have no need to insult you, your words have done it for me.

Belly & Phillip S, settle down children. We all can put in writing or say something that was OK in our head but it comes out wrong, however well intentioned. So leave off, you two. We have a greater enemy afoot.

Belly - I would like to remind you of something you posted before, Quote "Philip s it has been my intention to avoid you and you heated posts from your first day here."

Also you still have not acknowledged that maybe you were wrong insofar as my reply was directly below where you asked for a link a link was not provided because it was to a pdf file which some browsers can't open therefore the person looking had there choice of links.

Sorry Jayb I am not christian enough to turn the other cheek to have that verbally bashed again.

Dear Jay,

I'm so sorry to hear of your accident.
It does sound painful. I trust that you'll
get better soon and
that you won't be in too much pain for long.

Take care and All The Best.

All power to you too, Lexi....Get well soon : )

Jay - Ouch! - hope it heals quickly.

Dear Froggie,

No need to apologise, there continues to be plenty of distractions here.

I get a feeling we are getting closer to thrashing this thing out so happy to persist.

I do think the majority of our immigrants would prefer to leave sectarian and ethnic animosities behind them when they flee to our country. The second generation do not have the more visceral traumatic memories that lead their parents to uproot themselves and their families.

I would venture to say most of those involved in this incident; http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Tennis-Open-marred-by-ethnic-violence/2007/01/15/1168709659874.html

were probably second generation. Do we take incidents like these as an excuse to ban future Serbian migration to our country or do we quickly react by taking steps within our sporting codes and our policing to temper and defuse tensions.

Let us look at the London bombings which you used to claim “These young men, even though born in England, were not integrated at all. In other words, their religion and culture came first in their minds.”.

Firstly only three of the four were born in the UK, the fourth Germaine Maurice Lindsay “was born in Jamaica and had lived in Dalton, West Yorkshire, following his arrival from Jamaica at age five, where he attended Rawthorpe Junior School and Rawthorpe High School. A carpet fitter, he subsequently moved to Aylesbury in Buckinghamshire.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_Lindsay

He converted to Islam in his teens.

From what I read of the others it would be hard to claim they were not to a large extent also integrated into English society before their radicalisation.

It is pretty clear that the fight should always be against the poison peddlers of whom the radicalisers are the worst, most extreme example.

There is a case to be made, admittedly tenuous, that John Howard was part of the radicalisation of Anders Brevik. Equally there is a case to be made that Andrew Bolt is part of the radicalisation of the young lad who was the subject of my original post.

We have to recognise it, condemn it when we see it and act when it crosses the line.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2829059.stm

Cont..

Cont..

You say “Therefore I support free speech, even that of people who promulgate detestable ideas.” but isn't it disingenuous to demand we keep out of this county those who may use that free speech to promulgate ideas that are detestable to us so we can claim we are 'unreservedly' in favour of the idea of free speech?

I feel neither of us are denying there is a problem, it is just our assessments differ on the causes and of where the solutions lie. I want for my country the continuing acceptance of peoples from different cultural and religious backgrounds, an acceptance which is admired around the world. What I don't want us doing is importing fly in fly out radicalisers like Wilders and al-Sudais.

And if the notion of the absolute right to free speech needs to be tempered slightly to ensure our youth are not the victims of the poison peddlers then that discussion needs to occur.

Now I just have to get use to the idea that Belly could even contemplate he is middle of the road on this issue. Got my work cut out there.

Dear Philip S,

You wrote;

“my reply was directly below where you asked for a link a link was not provided because it was to a pdf file which some browsers can't open therefore the person looking had there (sic) choice of links.”

What kind of pathetic lame-arsed excuse was that?

Which browsers now can't open pdfs?

And how circular is a link 'was not provided' so any person looking would have 'their choice of links'?

You really do have form on this don't you. Your post about 'Muslim Patrols' was taken from an Al Jazera piece but you felt it expedient not to provide a link then either. You equally lame-arsed excuse was “By putting in just a few of the words the page will come up near first in any search engine, SO AGAIN you are wrong. I have the page not the link, you managed to find it quick.”

What rot.

Typical poison peddling mate. Incite and inflame but make it difficult to fact check.

I think you owe Belly an apology and then we can move on.

csteele - Looks like the brick wall has come to life in support of Belly, why can't he talk for himself? Probably not as he can't read a post directly below where he posts.

Quote "What kind of pathetic lame-arsed excuse was that?" It is better than some of the diatribe you have inflicted on people on this forum.

Quote "Typical poison peddling mate. Incite and inflame but make it difficult to fact check." I have always provided info when asked UNLIKE YOU who can't even answer questions even though you are reminded 4 times.

Quote "I think you owe Belly an apology and then we can move on." Sorry I am not a fan of the belly appreciation society as you are. So NO!

Anyone who reads your comments in this thread will easily understand what you are really like.

A nice song to cheer you's all up :~)

Brand New Leather Jacket
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wq_lhlIn1e0

Dear Raw Mustard,

Your video was created and posted by one Nick van Reil.

This is what he had to say about the tragedy in Norway;

Quote;

Many people say that Norway lost its innocence after these attacks, but Norway isn't that innocent at all!

It's terrible that these attacks killed so many people, but we have to stay with reality.

By subsidizing these Youth Camps – with tax payers money – the Norwegians themselves created the base for growing not so innocent socialistic leaders.

So the youngsters killed in this vile attack weren't that innocent at all.

THESE YOUNGSTERS WERE IN BED WITH ISLAM ALREADY

End quote.

Just beautiful mate. What else do you have for us?

Poison peddler!