o sung wu,
I share your dispair. A few years ago, when we had a retail business, I got stuck into a customer I knew to be a hiogh school teacher. I lambasted him and his fellow teachers for not instilling disipline in schools and so on.

He replied, mate it is too late when we get them, only last week i had a kid who had a 14th birthday and you know what his parents gave him for a present, a bottle of jack daniels and a carton of smokes.

what hope have teachers got?

Well I'm back and there's some good news and some
bad news. It seems that I suffer from AF (atrial fibrillation).
Its a heart rhythm disturbance and I'm going to be
booked in for something called "Cardioversion," in about
six weeks time. Its a treatment used to restore heart
rhythm disturbance. Apparently it's what I need to get
my life back to normal. I've also been placed on a
new drug called "Pradaxa," which hopefully will prevent
me from suffering a stroke.

That's all I've got for now - and Thanks to you all for your
concern.

Now back on topic...

Thanks o sung wu - for this thread. I've learned quite a
bit from all the various posts and opinions. What I find
deeply moving is how much each and every one really cares
about this issue. It once again confirms my opinion -
what a decent goup of people we have on this Forum.
We may not always agree - but gee whiz - I wouldn't trade
any of you. You all really care! Bless You all!

Good evening to you LEXI and BANJO...

You're absolutely right LEXI. The good people who regularly reveal their thoughts, views and opinions are, without doubt the 'salt of the earth'. Personally, I've learned a tremendous amount, from each and every one of you, whether or not we agree or emphatically disagree. You've all totally enriched my life on every level. Not only with those topical issues that make their passege relentlessly through this Forum ! Even by the way you individually reveal your thoughts and convey your opinions.

Impossible I accept, but wouldn't it be fantastic if we could all sit resplendently round a huge round table, coffee in one hand and gesticulating vigorously with the other. All the while ruminating on how we can solve the worlds problems ? An issue that needs a solution well before our coffee's exhausted and we all need to return to our respective homes ?

Each and every one of you would have so much to share with us all. If not, no matter, perhaps then by listening quietly, to what others have to say. I've heard from so many 'experts' It's a real art to learn how to listen properly ?

And how are you tonight BANJO...?

He was quite right that teacher ? Then it's hard to know exactly 'how and when' to introduce meaningful discipline, to kids isn't it ? Start it too early, then the child fears you ? Leave it too late, then (apparently) it becomes the teacher's problem. And in my opinion, it's all too late then, I believe.

Also, from what I've read and heard, as a parent trying to instill a modicum of discipline into some kiddies. When ultimately at school, the child's allowed to run riot, without any discipline at all ?

Not sure if it's now prohibited, but a parent applying a reasonable amount of corporal punishment (a couple of smacks around a child's legs), render themselves liable to a charge of assualt !

A massive quandary for Society to embrace ?

If you don't mind, I'll bid you all goodnight.

o sung wu

The family and social environment they come from is dysfunctional. Governments serve for short terms, there are no statesmen to lead and political parties do not see any votes in youth rehabilitation and training centres.

I could go on, but suffice it to say that a dysfunctional system remains dysfunctional because so many of its stakeholders are deriving benefit from it remaining dysfunctional. There are many blacks and whites who get a jolly good income and other benefits including power. However even apparent victims can perceive benefit from remaining dependent on welfare and having an excuse for underachieving, or not even remaining sober that day.

How to sideline them, the blockers, is the problem.

But I reckon the first priority is the young mothers. Protect them and show them the way. However the precursor is that as girls they must have full protection of Australian law too. Otherwise the consequences as obvious.

Hi there ONTHEBEACH & BANJO...

BANJO happened to echo my earlier sentiments of 'despair' when he kindly outlined another unfortunate event that amazed and troubled him at the same time ?

And much of what you've said ONTHEBEACH, though abundantly true, will nevertheless fade into obscurity and allow our collective 'despair' to flourish unimpeded ! Unless or until a (powerful) political White Knight, even a Saviour, gallops onto the scene and quickly inserts some very strong measure(s) to assist in the many way(s) you and others have suggested.

As that immortal humanist, Martin Luter King once uttered, '...I have a dream...' not disimilar to that of Dr King's, rather 'a dream' to save our precious youth from ending up in a life of crime, and treading along that perilous path to perdition.

Thank you both, we can but hope ?