First I am not proposing Socialism.
And not asking for more or less Socialism than we have.
My thoughts are a review of what we have.
Australia and New Zealand, the British Ilse's to some extent have Socialism within the only system I know of that works,Capitalism.
But for this threads sake, while I may refer to Americas much less help for its poor I want to break a cycle.
In the years 1972 till 1975 Labor bridged a gap, the poor had not been well treated before then.
This trend, in my view has gone on too long and too far.
A truth is Labor gives too much.
Liberals take too much.
This and any form of Socialism must move in to the 21st century.
A sense of entitlement, stunning at times,seems to live in many who receive social welfare.
So what do we do?
I got the idea for this thread from a TV story about smashed housing, government low rent housing wrecked deliberately.
Who pays, we all do,but what if welfare payments had a deduction taken out, just the offenders, would it both stop the wrecking and pay for it.
Australia, in my view will never neglect its poor as America does but do we need to fix welfare and not pay those who do not need it social security?

Social welfare, Belly, is a sensible form of insurance. It's purpose is to make the needy sufficiently independent so they do not pose a problem to everyone else. Large numbers of poor people spread disease and disorder. They take to petty theft and other criminal activities. They become a huge burden on the police and force the wealthy to live in gated ghettoes. The USA is a perfect example of a society in which a desperately poor lower class is emerging along with the problems I just mentioned.
Of course there will be rip offs - they are as human as the executive who does the same thing, but that's peanuts compared to the cost of protecting society at large from predatory poverty.
An independent, non-political organisation should determine the level of adequate funding, and it must be administered by an independent authority. All welfare must be removed totally from religion. If you're concerned about fraud, ask to see the books of any religious welfare group. They are not obliged to divulge their financial status, despite the fact the all religious charities - so called- are funded by the taxpayer.
Only an accountable, non-political, non-religious organisation should be entrusted with welfare, because it is the most important thing if we want to live in a non-violent society, and the cheapest form of security by far.

America is so free they forget about the social well-being of unemployed and non insured persons. Lets hope we never take that road.
There are people that will take advantage of public housing, and welfare rorts.
As a society we must maintain a level of welfare and housing, if that is socialism, so be it. A mix of socialism and private enterprise is of benefit to all.
There are those that would deny a livable wage being paid for jobs that are seen as being untrained or jobs that have no value to an employer, but have to be done.
If that attitude took hold, the place would smell like a country dunny in no time. All jobs have value to a community.
Too far one way, the system won't cope and too far the other way, then society will fail.
We need rational thinking when we make laws and amendments to existing laws. We are lucky to have a balance of both worlds, where private enterprise and social stability can live together as one

ybgirp, I see your point, but I don't like it very much.

You are suggesting we pay "protection" money to the no hoper & the hood, hoping this will get them to leave us alone. Well mate, it sure doesn't seem to be working. The streets, & our property was much less at risk in days of yore, when the real threat of punishment kept these much safer.

During the depression the lady in an isolated farm house had no need to worry, when a swagy came to her door. He was not likely to knock her off, or down. He was not likely to rob her. I suppose it could be we raised better people, when there was more stick & less understanding in a kids life, Then again it could be he was more likely to be caught & punished, than today.

Giving handouts, as we do today, just gives the hood more time to plan his activities.

To put the unemployed to work building roads, railways, or simply cleaning up the mess out of national parks would be a better idea, & they would be too busy during the day for criminal activities. Even make work, painting rocks white is a better idea.

Then again, perhaps we would be better off spending that welfare money on much larger police forces. A cop on the beat on every street might keep us safer than protection money, & would generate much employment.

Well I asked for it!
Two posts from my side of the fence seeming to not want any review.
And dear old Grumpy hasbeen,who would on past records flog the lot of them.
Socialism has failed, in every country that ever tried it.
It too, has suffered by other things miss using its name, Nazi, Communist, and THINGS I can not call it a country,like North Koria.
I here in these pages , have been flogged by the left, because they quite wrongly, think Labor deserted its roots.
Behind my views a truth, they will hide from lives.
We pay for it.
And Blind to the pain views like Hasbeens are growing.
IF Socialism, in the minor for we have it, does not change, we face the electorate supporting the American system!
A western nation fighting health care branding it communism!
Letting it returned soldiers live on the streets.
In between left and right, reality lives.
We must re think what we want from our tax dollars.
You once saw women who had to stay with bashing husbands to feed the kids.
We have gone too far.
Now women. single women have kids as a source of income.
As the screaming comes about single parents having to find work after the youngest turns SOME WOMEN are out their trying for yet another unloved child.
We can do better than that.
Employ those who while on SS get more than they would working.
Stop the transition from long term unemployed to pensions, currently Doctors benefit as much as patient by this fraud.
Room exists to cut waste cut unneeded welfare and by stopping people walking away from fines imposed serving little time in prison, at our expense, take the fines from SS.

The way I see it is that instead of an over-generous welfare our authorities should focus on preventing the need for welfare. Give people opportunities & jobs & reward their efforts instead of what's been happening in the past few decades.
No wonder so many just say stuff it with all these regulations, permits, licenses etc.
A huge percentage of this dreadful situation is borne of authority.
Prevention is better than cure and a hell of a lot cheaper too.