There is no point banging on about 'the good ol days', as far as law and order is concerned. We live in a far different world now, and we can't go back to those relatively innocent times.
Mind you, we haven't had a World War in recent times!

The only way anything re punishment for minors, or indeed for the increasingly violent adult criminals, will change is if the Government legislates for more fitting punishments.
But why haven't they done so by now?

Surely we have more people who want to be tough against crime than the so called bleeding hearts brigade?

I don't see Indonesia as a great leader in punishment for crimes. I think the death penalty should never be allowed here again, because it is an easy way out for nasty criminals, and it is too late if the dead person is later found to be innocent.

I don't have the answers, but I'm certainly not alone...

Suse,

Whatever the government legislates for will only ever be a band aid.

There is something very sick about a fortunate society that produces such behaviour - and unless we address the underlying causes (which means examining the route catalysts of anti-social behaviour) we'll always be playing catch-up.

Of course, that route would take a bit of soul searching, wise counsel and societal self-criticism - and even then it's unlikely we'd have the will to address the underlying causes in real terms.

Whatever bonded communities "in the old days" is certainly absent in the new - and unless we can find a substitute, we're in for a rough ride.

Hasbeen,

You jogged a few memories there. Remember when we went out we left a key in the front door. If a mate dropped by he could let himself in and make a cuppa, and leave a note.

Another one was how we could leave our car windows down, and not even think that someone would come along and pinch anything out of it.

And perhaps my most important memory of the corner deli was the one that started the brain cells banging around again. Today's youth have never experienced neigbourly rapport, or knowing that small communities help each other, and effectively keep watch over them - and act as surrogate police at times too.

Could the answer be as simple as creating smaller communites instead of sprawling soulless suburbs where there is little or no neighbour interaction? We've lost that old sense of community, haven't we? And it slipped away without us realising it.

The only thing that can deter an offender is the certainty of being arrested. That would reduce the frequency of their crimes but it would not stop them. More redundant laws and doubling or tripling penalties does nothing. Offenders do not believe they will be caught. Anyway, a custodial sentence is a holiday from responsibilities, and there are 'girlfriends' inside.

Cars in particular have made detection far more difficult. They offer many advantages to an offender, anonymity for instance. I would like to see some form of drivers licence restriction considered for all crimes. From surrender of licence for a serious crime, even if a vehicle was not used in the commission of the offence, to restriction for lengthy times to vehicle use only where necessary for employment. People should be of good character to obtain and hold a drivers licence. Anyone who isn't should have restrictions on use at minimum.

Overcrowding and loss of sense of community also ease the way of an offender. Intelligent town planning and design can reduce problem features. I don't mean taking the easy way out by putting video surveillance everywhere.

For offenders, the knowledge that they have full rights and more so than their victims and can use free legal representation to sue for damages if the homeowner's poodle nips them, and hopefully capital punishment for the vicious pooch, is icing on the cake. It suits criminals, especially sex offenders and burglars that the victim is at definite risk of arrest, public humiliation and a possible sentence if s/he defends vigorously against an attacker. Is it any wonder that sex offences and burglaries are in epidemic numbers and many (most?) cases remain on the books. That is certainly true for burglaries.

Returning to minors, police tell me that their call-outs are usually to the same families. For many minors the behaviour is being modelled in the home. That applies in spades to hated of authority and society. Substance abuse is usually involved.

I don't see Indonesia as a great leader in punishment for crimes.
Suseonline,
Come again ? I think a few slaps & 3 months in the clink for stealing a mobile phone is a lot better than letting them off. Australian Judiciary could learn a lot from Indonesia. One problem though that many new legal people up there are now being educated in Australian Law schools. Too bad because they have way more effective deterrents than here.

Punishment as a deterrent for minors?

I can just see irate and influential
upper-middle class parents insisting
that their son's vandalism was simply
a prank and his drunkenness only a
momentary "sowing of wild oats."

While at the same time - indifferent,
powerless, lower-class parents may
acquiesce to the law's definition
of their son's behaviour.

This pattern of deviancy is re-inforced
in our society and breaking away from it
becomes increasingly unlikely.

Once children acquire an image of themselves
as deviants, they might select new friends
who affirm that self image. And as that self-
conception becomes more firmly entrenched
youngsters may become willing to try new
and more extreme deviances. With their
growing alienation comes freer expressions of
disrespect and hostility for representatives of
legitimate society.

This disrespect increases the society's
negativism, perpetuating the entire process of
commitment to deviance.

Selective perception and labeling - finding,
processing and punishing some kinds of criminality and
not others - means that visible, poor, undiplomatic
"tough" kids will be noticed, whether their actions
are serious or not. Whereas other kids who have
established a reputation for being involved in
respectable activities will become invisible when
they deviate from sanctioned activities.

They'll "sow their wild oats," even wider and
thicker than their lower-class cohorts - but they
won't be noticed.

When it's time to leave adolescence most will follow
the expected path, settling into the ways of the
middle-class. Others, through being punished by the
police and the community will channel their careers
consistent with their adolescent background.

I'm not suggesting that nothing be done for serious
crimes - but looking at the causes rather than simply
punishing seems like a better option in this
complicated issue.