Lexi - To me if someone is caught (for serious crimes) and whatever happens they do it again there is little or no chance for rehabilitation, I would rather spend billions locking them up than risk someone being hurt.

For theft and lesser crimes whatever they steal they give back plus big fines or lock them up you hear of some offenders 5th or upwards times to have committed the same type of crime again there is little or no chance for rehabilitation, lock them up and make them work.

The only way it will change is if they start to steal of or bash the politicians or do-gooders, but they live in the suburbs with disproportionate numbers of police to poorer suburbs.

Dear Philip,

I got this from a bit of research on the web:

"Punishment can change behaviour
while they're under lock and key. But if guiding
someone towards responsibility and well being
is the goal as it should be with a juvenile
justice system then other means are needed."

Things like giving them skills useful in the job market,
would help. Discipline of course is important, especially
among violent or anti-social young people but it's no
silver bullet. As someone remarked on the web:
"Viewed simply as an end in itself it treats offenders as
objects rather than people and the problem is that's
how they often already see themselves."

Bashing someone into being good is an outmoded point
of view that today most people would find unacceptable.
As I stated in an earlier post on this forum - my husband
went to Christian Brothers Schools - where daily floggings
were the norm. And a visiting chaplain from Melbourne
Pentridge jail told the class that the largest population
at Pentridge came from Christian Brothers. Bashing
them into "goodness" had the opposite effect.

Here's a few suggestions (again from the web) that may
work:

1) Early intervention with families and in communities
with high crime rates.

2) Programs such as mentoring, involvement in activities
such as volunteering, sport, and community-purposed events.

3) Teaching kids leadership; creating a sense of
connection to their community and helping them succeed
in sport and school can help kids from engaging in
crime-related activities.

In short, success, support, encouragement and above all
activity, keeps kids - occupied, fulfilled and focused,
which reduces the chances of them becoming involved
in crime.

Baden Powell introduced Scouting in the UK after the
Boer War which took off world-wide and probably put many
young lives on the right track.

Bashing someone into being good is an outmoded point
of view that today most people would find unacceptable.
Lexi,
You can't bash goodness into anyone, period. No-one's even suggesting that. You only get two options when dealing with people who have only contempt & no respect for others. Rehabilitation or punishment.
If the former has no effect then concentrate fully on the latter. You can't somehow make a bad person good. Only academics think that.
Those against punishment never once give any consideration to the victim & therefore are no better than the offender.
I have had my share of theft to the total tune of $100,000 over 40 years and, as you may gather I have run out of tolerance with both offenders & defenders. It caused me to literally having to live a totally different life to what I planned.

Dear Individual,

I've stated in my previous post that punishment
can change behaviour while they're under lock
and key but if guiding someone towards responsibility
and well being is the goal as it should be with a
juvenile justice system then other means are needed.

I've listed suggestions for what may work. You obviously
want to stick with punishment. That is your point of view.
Based on your experiences. That is fair enough.

My experiences difer from yours, therefore so does my point
of view.

See you on another thread.

Good evening to you INDIVIDUAL...

You're right when you say there's much interference of police (trying) to do their job. Next to matters of Domestic Violence, dealing with young persons, are probably amongst the hardest of all jobs you're required to do.

No longer are Kids respectful/frightened/intimidated by either the police, the courts even juvenile detention. I've had jids look me in the eye, as a detective sergeant, and tell me without mincing any words whatsoever, that I can't touch 'em ! Laughing in my face as they do so. In reality, they're often quite right.

The reason is, they're taught (mostly at school) from an early age all their rights. Rights concerning their parents. Rights concerning the police, the Courts...but do you know what INDIVIDUAL, they're NEVER taught their responsibilities to the above group(s).

Our education system is doing them no favours either. Regrettably !

Good evening to you LEXI...

Whenever you write something, I'm constantly amazed at how well you totally encapsulate the topic, together with sound reasoning and cogent arguement. Are you sure you're not in Chambers somewhere practicing postulatory juriprudence ?

You argue your case so well, I tend to be left bereft of any contradictory reasoning or rationalization. Of course you're right when you assert that every component of society must play it's part. Not only the parents, teachers, police, in fact everybody and anybody who's capable of inculcating trust, together with some positive influence upon the young person - I'd even go as far as saying, even the Church may have a part to play ?

I had this girl who was in a mess - won't even touch on specifics, suffice to say she was in a real mess. It was a mainstream Church group who kind of rescued her ? Their bona fides satified police, so we were happy, and so was she and the Church as it turned out.

So many problems, so few answers, and so many, (apparently) insoluble impediments ?

Yes LEXI and INDIVIDUAL, we've got to do something, and do it soon I'm afraid.

Cheers...Sung Wu.