ONTB>> Speaking for myself, while I do not necessarily share the beliefs of others I am more than happy to be accepting and tolerant. Most seem to do no harm and there is a lot of good done especially for old and vulnerable people, especially during Christmas. As far as your group is concerned, I can't see how being rude and offensive to people for their beliefs could assist your credibility and standing in the community at all <<

That’s the way I see it too.

David,

From your personal abuse representing the grandiously titled "Foundation" I am left with the impression that it is a cowboy outfit probably only comprising yourself and a PC.

I notice that your web site gives precious little information on the "Foundation", but it does have the begging bowl prominently displayed.

For the record, exactly how many signed up current members does the "Foundation" have, who are the office holders, who are the sponsors, what is the annual operating budget and what reports are available on the disbursement of money collected by donation?

Yes I known, inconvenient questions and more insults will be incoming from you.

Dear Sonofgloin,

<<The term atheist is a logical nonsense, as is the term theist. How can you be a committed believer or non believer with absolutely no proof one way or the other?>>

Why so? There's this trivial primary-school proof (with numerous variations) that God does not exist:

{Can God create a stone that heavy that He could not lift?}

If God existed, then He could create that stone, which He could both lift and couldn't lift - a logical contradiction, therefore God does not exist (unless you consider God to be limited - we shall look at that case in a moment).

God's non-existence is essential for faith and spiritual development. Worshipping God on the grounds that He is believed to exist (or even likely to exist), is mundane. Performing certain activities such as prayers and sacrifices for the sake of receiving material benefits in return (either in this life or thereafter, it makes no difference), merely amounts to trade. Only pure worship that is performed for God's sake, for the love of God without expectation of rewards, counts as religion or spiritual progress.

As for the case of worshipping a limited god, one who is bound by the laws of physics or in the least by the laws of logic, I find no interest in such god.
Yes, one should probably be agnostic about it while leaning in the direction that such a being does not exist.

Perhaps, against all reasonable odds, there's such a being who, despite certain limitations, created a universe or two: so what?!
Would there be a reason to worship that being? perhaps, but then it would just be an ordinary material reason, not a spiritual one.

If a limited god existed, then despite him/her being, from a material point-of-view, much stronger, much faster, much more knowledgeable, much more intelligent than us, etc., despite even creating and maintaining this universe, still from a spiritual point-of-view, he/she would be equivalent and no different to any of us, thus not worthy of worship - one should worship God alone, rather than existence or any part thereof.

SoG writes: "The thinking man adopts the consideration that physics is not all there is."

Yes, and the thinking man also understands that this doesn't make the existence of gods any more likely.

The thinking man would understand that it is a fallacy to think that gods deserve more consideration than fairies and goblins just because a lot of people have believed in them for a long time.

The argumentum ad populum fallacy, to be precise.

The thinking man would also be able to spot important distinctions between mythical creatures and Gods, such as the fact that fairies and goblins tend not to make very good celestial dictators for authorities to exercise control over populations, or populations to exercise control over each other, or celestial father figures to comfort those who have not otherwise been provided with the adequate tools to cope with the hardships some of us may face in life.

Nor do they provide an explanation - however fallacious and unsubstantiated - for why we're here; relieving us from the discomfort of not knowing something.

Merry Christmas to all and a safe and prosperous New Year.

To the odd naughty goblin intent on wreaking mischief.. well, have a few cold ones anyway and try to at least enjoy your own company.

I might add, SoG, that it's quite a stretch for you to claim the position of a "thinking man" when all your position on this matter does is relieve you of having to think.

It's a position of intellectual laziness - and dare i say, cowardice - that hides behind a pretense of open-mindedness and virtuousness, while lacking the ability to ever accomplish anything.