Dear David,

I fully understand. I guess organised religions have
become, in many cases, as calcified as other
institutions that form the structure of our modern
world. Our religious institutions
have far too often become handmaidens
of the status quo.

I've come to see that true religion is
internal, not external. The spirit within us can't be
blamed for the blasphemies carried out in its name.
What some have done in the name of religion, projecting
their neuroses, even perpetrating evil on the world,
does not make religion as a mystical phenomenon invalid.

I don't want to impose my views on anyone else, I think
whatever one believes - it's a very personal choice.
For me, I can't turn away from religion for the simple
reason that I find that life without a conscious awareness
of God is difficult and religion is theoretically where to
find Him.

Anyway, once again - to everyone posting - may you enjoy
this Festive Season with friends, family, and loved ones,
and may the New Year be filled with Goodwill towards all!

I absolutely loathe people who post threads like this. You do NOTHING of use to anyone and you only waste internet space. You are the lowest. Shame.

sonofgloin,

“…but we can’t let go of a creator for some reason as this discussion examples some 100,000 years after the first concept of a creator was sparked.”

Luckily, education is a part of the AFA’s mandate. A reasonably recent survey of the Academy of Sciences, top people in their fields, had a belief in a god at about 7%. Naturally enough, this wasn’t the young earth type god. The less educated population of the USA has a belief in a god at about 80%. Are you still with me as this is very simple but important? What this means is that a healthy education about science inoculates humans against both evolutionary proclivities to accept woo and enculturation that does likewise.

Unless there is a huge global disaster the increase in people who do not accept the god hypothesis will grow at the extraordinary rate we are witnessing right now.

What are these people in the majority who are giving away religion? Are they atheists agnostics? Early days but, the answer to that question is here. http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5547&page=0

Why is that so, well, it is because many folk can recognise the difference between reality and the unreality of absolute-notions.

So, saying “we can’t let go of a creator” is a personal statement that covers people who are uneducated in the sciences and philosophy. The nightly TV news shows this as true. Science education is the solution.

The AFA doesn’t go out of its way to offend religious people but the problem is, if there is a hint of any statement against faith held concepts, religious people become quite stroppy. The more basic the religion, i.e. some parts of Islam, the more likely such statements will attract a minority to object violently to them. But Christianity also gets jumpy when its tenets are questioned. We see it on this Forum. Only a century or so, as with the case of Charles Darwin, religion didn't allow criticism. Times have changed and religion has no choice in the matter.

Everyone should have the chance to be free from childhood indoctrination of religion.

David

AJP>> It's a position of intellectual laziness - and dare i say, cowardice - that hides behind a pretense of open-mindedness and virtuousness, while lacking the ability to ever accomplish anything.<<

C'mon AJ, where can this thread go given the ethereal nature of the subject matter? As I mentioned religions are called faiths for obvious reasons and the atheists thoughts are opinions for exactly the same reason. There is no validation, nor even fact based hypothesis, there are only opinions, yet theists and atheists claim the high ground with personal observations.

My personal observations are that the subject is centre ball, not proven or disproven

Firstly let me offer my sincere thoughts of goodwill to all for the 365 days of the year after year. So what, you might ask? Well as we all know there are many forces at work on the planet which in terms of commonly accepted humane values are counterproductive. I would wish that all people on the planet could be valued simply for their human potential and qualities. That they be free of oppression, slavery, exploitation, poverty, hopelessness, pain, murder and militarism, the list goes on.

One might ask where does the concept of human value come from, I cant answer for everybody but for me it came partly from family influence but more so from a learned understanding of the life of Christ as portrayed in the New Testament. I do not feel it necessary to practice religion but have no issue with those who do.

It is not the detail in itself that I subscribe to but the philosophical principles which I drew from the story. Put simply "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".

It is the political manipulation of religion by evil practioners that is the problem.

In terms of believing in any concept of an overarching Godhead the question hinges heavily for me in whether this incredidly complex universe of which we are a part has occurred and is sustained to this point, by accident or alternatively by some design and purpose, I would like to believe the latter.

At this time of artificial good cheer spare a thought for the poor sods whose lives will be destroyed by the bullets and bombs of warring factions, a carnage largely supported by our so called allies. Children and women and men who will not make it to Dec. 25 whether they believe in God or not.
Den71

Dave, it is no surprise that intellectuals flee from a creator.

It is no surprise that the humble, feeble, and lower economic strata flocks to a promise.

May I add that an IQ of over 130 is not solely the domain of the intellectual? There are a load of professors out there that never had the opportunity to be formally educated.

David>> Why is that so, well, it is because many folk can recognise the difference between reality and the unreality of absolute-notions.<<

Absolute notions? What does that mean tiger?

How can you bring the term “absolute” into a concept based on gossamer?

You have an absolute opinion, and that is about that.

Let me remind you of just one absolute from recent the past:

For two generations it has been a standard belief that the neutron, an electrically neutral elementary particle and a primary component of an atom, actually carries a positive charge at its center and an offsetting negative charge at its outer edge.
That changed in 2007 when it was discovered that the neutron has a negative charge both in its inner core and its outer edge, with a positive charge sandwiched in between to make the particle electrically neutral.

Big change from an accepted scientific fact that physicists held for 50 years.

David>> So, saying “we can’t let go of a creator” is a personal statement that covers people who are uneducated in the sciences and philosophy. The nightly TV news shows this as true. Science education is the solution.<<

Nightly news Dave…really.