David wrote: "You know what brings you back each time; it is the irresistible urge to prove you know what you are talking about and to prove that to others. "

Well I can certainly understand how someone who thinks of himself as rational educated and adult while those who disagree with him are irrational and infantile, would feel comfortable deciding that my motives are quite different to what I think they are. The zealotry that people like David personify seems to empower them, in their minds, to allow them to decide for others in all things....its what makes them dangerous.

Its been quite a journey but we've got there. It started out with David asserting that it was the church's indoctrination of kids in their schooling that was the route cause of all the detrimental effects of theism.
We've now finally got to the point that he acknowledges that culture is the real indoctrinator, that people get their religion from the society around them.

Now this is both good and bad. Its good that David is now closer to the truth. It bad since he'll now need to work out how to force change on the culture to achieve his utopian atheist democracy. Oops, maybe I did a disservice by gently leading him to the truth.

Just one final question before I move on....if belief in the supernatural is irrational, uneducated and infantile what of those like Obama, Blair, Rudd, JFK etc who held/hold such beliefs. The last time I asked that, David obfuscated with the incorrect claim that I was using these people to prove the deity. Just to be clear, that's not my assertion. I'm simply asking how belief in the supernatural can be irrational and infantile if such people believe it.

mhaze,

I suppose you realise that your posts are very adversarial and spit venom more than needed. I personally don't mind but you should consider how other perceive you. It's not a good look.

You’ll have to explain about the “dangerous” David. In what way am I dangerous? Are the words I use laced with some magic that is going to mesmerise all who read them or have I a secret plan involving Gulags and re-education camps? Tell me about it.

You don’t seem to get the cultural indoctrination process and I'm not going through it again. But no doubt you and all the Christians you know of were brought up in an Islamic, Hindi or Buddhist culture and have found the truth in Christianity. Hallelujah!

Again, some references to where I suggest others and I are planning a “utopian atheist democracy” would be nice.

Naming individuals who are religious is no proof of anything. Wider statistics need looking at and for the umpteenth time a survey at the Academy of Sciences showed only 7% of respondents who believed in any kind of god at all.

And again, and I ask forgiveness of those who are taking notice, it doesn't matter how many people believe something to be true because that doesn't make it true.

Since you are into questions, here is one for you. Is the Islamic Allah of the Muslim religion the one true god because numbers who believe that are very impressive? Is Krishna also true because, number again shows there are millions of believers?

Another question as I don’t think you have volunteered the information, to which particular sect of Christianity do you ascribe?

Is it young/old age universe creationism or something else?

David

mhaze,

David should be satisfied that the youth in the Western countries are becoming indifferent to religion where the Church is powerful (as he claims). From my obsevations youth in the West have generally lost their way and are living selfish lives.

Josephus,

<<From my obsevations youth in the West have generally lost their way and are living selfish lives.>>

Perhaps, but to suggest that this is because they are not as religious is quite a leap. Particularly when, rates of teen pregnancy, abortion, suicide, homicide and just crime in general tend to rise the more religious a society or community is.

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.pdf
http://globalsociology.com/files/2012/12/Religion-by-Behavior-29p2nsv.png

The world we live in is a far more complex place than it ever was in the past and this is more likely to contribute to what you observe. I would dread growing up now.

As for why the youth of today are less religious, I think the answer lies in the fact that there is now more information out there and that it is more easily accessible than ever before. The fact the each generation is more educated than the last probably plays a role too; religion is currently only flourishing in those places where the people are less educated and more superstitious.

AJ Philips,
So you are telling me that committed Christians are most responsible for rates of teen pregnancy, abortion, suicide, homicide and just crime in general. What utter garbage. Most of the situations you give are characteristic of youth roaming the streets with no committment to anything, not even atheism as a belief system. Though they might use it as a cover, if questioned, for their immoral behaviour

No, Josephus...

<<So you are telling me that committed Christians are most responsible for rates of teen pregnancy, abortion, suicide, homicide and just crime in general.>>

I'm telling you that societal health declines in correlation with the religiosity of a society or community. I even linked you to statistics and studies proving it. You didn't bother to look at them, did you?

It's probably more a result of the bigotry, encouraged ignorance (e.g creationism and lower education levels in general with higher levels of home schooling), poor sex education and the failed push for abstinence that all tend to be more prevalent in religious communities.

<<Most of the situations you give are characteristic of youth roaming the streets with no committment to anything...>>

Maybe, and this is something else you tend to find correlates with the religiosity of a society/community. Perhaps it's the ultra-strict and ultra-conservative parents who boot their kids put of home for falling pregnant or telling them they don't believe in God anymore? Or the kid's who run away from home because they don't want to go to military school? I could imagine there's many reasons. 

<<...not even atheism as a belief system.>>

Atheism isn't a belief system. This assertion has been discredited multiple times on OLO and has currently just been discredited again recently in another thread (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=5580&page=0). So why is it that you guys so stubbornly continue to speak as though it were? It just sounds petulant.