Belly, I don't target welfare it's self as you know full well I target WELFARE WASTE.

Ordinary people go out and work, pay their taxes, knowing full well a portion of their taxes, goes to people who either can't find work, or don't want to work.

Surely, given that many of these tax payers get zip, or next to in the way of support from the government, are entitled to demand that their contributions are not wasted.

Waste is my beef with welfare, not welfare it's self and, considering so much gets wasted, we need to address this.

After all, welfare is a gift, not an entitlement.

Not worth the effort rechtub.
You are pushing the same barrow I did from my first post.
But you are trying to push it side ways.

Belly,
here's one you could possibly understand;

Waste;
1 [ with obj. ] use or expend carelessly, extravagantly, or to no purpose: we can't afford to waste electricity | I don't use the car, so why should I waste precious money on it?
• (usu. be wasted on) bestow or expend on an unappreciative recipient: her small talk was wasted on this guest.
• (usu. be wasted) fail to make full or good use of: we're wasted in this job.
2 [ no obj. ] (of a person or a part of the body) become progressively weaker and more emaciated: she was dying of AIDS, visibly wasting away | (as adj. wasting) : a wasting disease.
• [ with obj. ] archaic cause to do this: these symptoms wasted the patients very much.
3 [ with obj. ] literary devastate or ruin (a place): he seized their cattle and wasted their country.
• informal kill or severely injure (someone): I saw them waste the guy I worked for.
4 [ no obj. ] literary (of time) pass away; be spent: the years were wasting.

Ok Belly, so how do you propose we address welfare waste?

Do you think it is reasonable for welfare dollars, much of which is provided as family support, to be spent on the likes of gambling, grog and cigs, knowing full well that many kids go hungry as a result?

Do you think the millions, if not billions of welfare dollars wasted on these three would be better spent on providing for some of our homeless?

Now of cause, you can choose any of the following.

You can give a straight answer. Unlikely!

You can accuse me of being abusive toward you. Can't see why!

Or, you can simply run away.

I'll leave it up to you.

Rechtub I get a grin out of your posts.
My so called running away is not to defend me but you.
Along with poor old indy.
You two get involved in a thread not to find answers and bring fresh ideas.
But to turn it in to a verbal tennis match.
Unfortunately you bring a huge racket, but it has no strings.
From post one my view said clearly welfare reform must be part of tax reform.
In truth much more reform too but not more than welfare.
I have for years warned vote buying by both sides,in middle class welfare, and sit down money at the other end is wrong.
You challenge me?
What welfare reforms would you introduce.
What tax reforms would you consider.
In your view what are the tax reforms Abbott will put in place.
You, and AUSTRALIA, scream for an end to the boats.
Give me your plan to stop them,
Sit down indy, yes you can have the bone, give me your views on each question.

Silence may not be Gold but it can be descriptive.
A debate, about a vitally important tool government has to meet our wanted things.
And a request to look at just what we want against what we need has failed.
Oh it has a few posts, but not much real debate, few real ideas and in the end? nothing.
Well respected MOTL left but a question must be asked, is the right to opinions other than ours ok?
Rechtub and Indy have not contributed answers even thoughts.
Just unfocused criticism
How many of us know that in the first world war, or just before, Great Briton first introduced Pay as You Earn tax?
And have contributors considered in depth why Greece is in its current shape.
Is it related to its reluctance to pay tax and demands YES DEMANDS for a big public service and very early retirement on excessive pensions?
So leave tax reform lets go back to Abbottism, no policy's, they may frighten the voters no real warning about what is to come.
Just line up to flog Gillard as a blind to not telling us their plans.