Dear David,

<<May I suggest you stop playing the role of the wise prophet as you are not making any sense to those of us who value a rational approach to life.>>

It isn't enough to value the rational approach - one needs to live by what they value. Living by the assumption that the world is what it seems to be through the lenses of the human senses and mind, is irrational.

<<You are sprouting nonsense>>

You mean such as that molesting children is not part of religion but rather part of the corruption of religion; that Catholicism, indeed Abrahamism, is not the only religion on earth; or that theology need not logically conflict itself and science?

<<I can only guess>>

I write for two reasons:

The first is that I have been addressed and questioned. I do have better things to do with my time, and I did honestly believe that this discussion was over as there was no traffic for 4 days. I did mean it wholeheartedly when I wrote that you and the AFA ought to be blessed for your great work among those whose vision is, for whatever reason, so distorted as to believe God to be a monster.

The second is that religion has been attacked on this thread and as a religious person I am allowed to defend myself and my faith.

What is my life, what my life is all about was threatened to be made illegal in Australia. I am being told that I'm supposed to be content with science, human achievements, technological gadgets and that manner of rubbish. My life is full and rich without any of those, my life is happy and fulfilling, but I already had to leave the country where I was born and here I am told that I may have to leave this country as well and find a new home in my mature age because my religion is unacceptable, because some Catholic priests molested some children, without me knowing, and now all religious people are to blame and be persecuted.

Yuyu, your above post is illogical in the extreme. It's an utter corruption to absolve all religious belief of blame, by implying that religion is only good, and that anything that's bad regarding religion (and there's PLENTY of that) is not "really" religion. Some people apply the same illogical reasoning as you use to "their" versions of philosophy, religion, belief, political view, racial attitude etc etc.

Yuyu, you are religiously blind. You have scant understanding of religion. At the same time you are convinced that you have a deep understanding of religion. Trust me, you DON'T. Your very obtuse answers are your only defence, because the obtuseness allows you to explain your beliefs away via illogical thought and belief. You truly belong to an ancient, bygone era of uneducated superstition. Yes, I know this hurts you (you will deny this), but it must be said.

You have every right to have religious belief, and you have every right to defend your religious belief. Others have every right to see through religious belief, and every right to expose religious belief for what it actually is. These rights are the basis of freedom.

Yuyutsu,

“It isn't enough to value the rational approach - one needs to live by what they value. Living by the assumption that the world is what it seems to be through the lenses of the human senses and mind, is irrational.”

Observation – verification - repeatability – falsifiability or as we say, the scientific method had allowed humanity to see the universe as has only been dreamed of before this was employed. Explain your method…in words and not jumbled subjectivity?

“You mean such as that molesting children is not part of religion but rather part of the corruption of religion; that Catholicism, indeed Abrahamism, is not the only religion on earth; or that theology need not logically conflict itself and science?”

Religious power is possibly the best way known to be in a position to abuse children. They have total trust in it and its clergy. Theology and science are incompatible. (See my first response above)

“I did mean it wholeheartedly when I wrote that you and the AFA ought to be blessed for your great work among those whose vision is, for whatever reason, so distorted as to believe God to be a monster.”

Who believes the god you speak of is a monster? Not atheists, I can assure you. Atheists have the opinion that the gods of many religions as depicted by books and their adherents is a monstrous idea. Calling something a monster that does not exist is not an option.

Sure, you have every right to defend your faith but in the court of rationality others have the right to show your faith is baselessly asserted.

No one I know of who describe themselves as an atheist ‘blame and persecute’ religious people because of the aberrant behaviour of some Catholic priests. There may be the odd idiot who does this but it is not common. Have you some examples other than anecdote?

David

It's fascinating watching you guys debate Yuyutsu.

You take him on as if he's a typical representative of your idea of typical "institutionalised religion".

But he is coming from somewhere else outside the typical human sense-judging paradigm. His take on God and existence emanates more from a quantum level...the place where explanations for "existence" become hazy (as in 99 percent of an atom is vacuum, in a universe consisting of nothing but atoms, all connected and one)

I see his take on things as more akin to Buddhist thought, which is really a prescription for investigating one's own mind - from where one's reality emanates.

(Btw, I'm not "religious" - I'm merely enjoying the machinations of a debate with someone who's ideas don't fit neatly into conventional ideas of "religious thought")

For me, this is the most interesting part of your approach to religion, Yuyutsu.

>>Part of the illusion of existence, is that we are separate, that you and I are separate, that in fact any two "things" are separate - amid themselves and separate from God. That is not so.<<

Here's the thing.

Where does paedophilia fit into this scheme of yours?

Do you perhaps regard yourself as complicit with Catholic priests in their nefarious acts, on the basis that you and they are not separate? Are we to assume that paedophilia is therefore also approved by God, given that neither you, the Catholic priests nor God are in fact separate.

Where does that leave the victims of paedophilia, in your worldview? Was what they suffered merely an illusion too? And the pain they continue to experience, is that also illusory?

Or do you take the view that, because their very existence is an illusion, what has happened to them is also non-existent?

Personally, I find that quite distasteful.

Or maybe I am under the illusion that I find that quite distasteful. Either way, since we are not separate, you should find yourself under the same illusion.

Nope. That doesn't work.

Reality is what those victims felt. And having you dismiss the whole experience as having been enacted in their imagination is, most certainly, inhuman.

But perhaps you don't consider yourself human?

That would certainly explain a great deal.

Pericles,

I think you know that it's a man who commits socially unacceptable acts. That he commits these trespasses under the auspices of various institutional umbrellas is really a separate issue to what religious people believe.

I believe the RC is investigating the role of "institutional coverups". It's a human penchant to construct institutions...these constructions spread responsibility amongst adherents, therefore enabling a buck-passing, smoke-and-mirrors type of arrangement which work against transparency.

It's man who creates the institutions...and it's man who violates social taboos.