Hasbeen, there is an organisation in the Vancouver Seattle area doing
goods delivery by sail. They started out small but I think they have
developed past that point.
I have forgotten its name but it had sail in the name.

SM,
That Crikey link, what a beat up, full of unnamed sources. The Greens in NSW are a united group with an outstanding senator in Lee, who will shortly be joined by Kate. Our MLC's. are the best in the chamber by a mile. Jamie Parker has the full support of the membership. There is no internal war that I am aware of, and most of the people named by Crikey I speak to quite regularly, no back stabbing there. I am a strong supporter of Lee and I placed her 1st on the DD vote. On the normal vote I voted 1 Mehreen 2 Kate as I believe most of the so called Lee Rhiannon faction did. I am total committed to helping Kate get elected to the Senate next year. I hope Mahreen gets the opportunity to fill Kate's seat in the LC, not too sure if she wants to. Mehreen is by far our best talent, male or female outside of parliament we have here in NSW.
Happy to see a Labor Green coalition in the ACT. despite the Mad Monk calling for a Liberal Green deal.
How about a genuine answer to this question I posed to you:
"SM a very hard question for you. Can you point to one innovation or reform in Australia over the past 100 years which you conservatives opposed and was implemented and later proved to be the wrong thing to do? There are many to choose from as conservatives tend to oppose all progressive innovations. here are a few to start with, widows pensions, child endowment, The Snowy Mountain Scheme." As I confidently predicted you would not have an answer. The only time we get whole heartened support from the conservatives is when a war is in the offing, your backers see war as a way to make big bucks, and bugger the dead. Can you name one post WWII conservative PM who was not a 'warmonger'? Here's the list. Menzies, Holt, McEwen, Gorton, McMahon, Fraser and Howard. I'll take it no answer means you agree all were 'warmongers'.

Belly,

Thanks – we all have our skills and abilities. What I find distasteful is when people who don’t know what they are talking about try and make out that they do - you know, someone who says "it's cr*p".

I used to frequent OLO, not now. A colleague of mine only last week said he “tried it too” but has since given up. I've popped in and see nothing has changed - much like WUWT (see response to Bazz following).

--

ManOfTheLand,

If you mean it would be prudent to tread carefully – I agree.

Bazz

David Archibald opens with this:

“The greenhouse gasses keep the Earth 30° C warmer than it would otherwise be without them in the atmosphere, so instead of the average surface temperature being -15° C, it is 15° C. Carbon dioxide contributes 10% of the effect so that is 3° C.”

Bazz, it is apparent that Mr Archibald and you (by extension) have not understood or taken into account (all of) radiative ‘forcing’. This misunderstanding (I use the term loosely) culminates in an error in the value of ‘climate sensitivity’ Mr Archibald uses in his equations.

For example; Mr Archibald thinks he understands the logarithmic function of CO2 concentration and its impact on TOA temperatures. However, he surmises (wrongly) that warming from our next 40 ppm of [CO2] will only be 0.04 degrees C.

As you seem to acknowledge, we are not talking about a CO2 saturated atmosphere. At the concentrations we are experiencing, any doubling from 200 yrs ago (280 ppm) to 560 ppm gives roughly the same ‘forcing’ as 380 ppm (today) to 760 ppm - roughly linear 'forcing', Bazz.

However, tripling the concentration gives about 60% more warming than if you doubled it. Needless to say, at those concentrations, the average global temperature would be at such high levels that life on planet Earth will look nothing like it does today.

Bazz, scroll down to the comments of John Finn:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/03/08/the-logarithmic-effect-of-carbon-dioxide/#comment-338723

He is someone you should be listening to Bazz, and he is a ‘sceptic’.

According to Mr Archibald’s own bio; he is a ‘scientist’ operating in the fields of cancer research, oil exploration, and climate science. Now he is involved in the financial industry as a stock analyst. Mr Archibald has been CEO of multiple oil and mineral exploration companies operating in Australia. He is a director of the Lavoisier Group.

Do you know who they are, Bazz?

Mr Archibald is also a member of the Australian Climate Science Coalition, a politically and ideologically motivated think-tank opposed to policies that impinge on the power and control the fossil fuel and mining industries wield.

Bazz
Seriously, Anthony Watts' blog site is just that - a blog.
Ok, it scores brownie points by people who just don't know, or who are looking for confirmation in their belief.
However, in the real scientific world - Anthony Watts just doesn't cut it.
If you really want to be a 'sceptic', follow the comments of someone like this guy (again):
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/03/08/the-logarithmic-effect-of-carbon-dioxide/#comment-338879
A bit of advice though: look at the 'opposing view web-sites' as well as WUWT (that's what real 'internet sceptics' do).
A good place to start for the layman:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-sensitivity-advanced.htm
Best wishes

Woodburn, on the north coast of NSW know it well.
Once packed my 4x4 fishing gear and off, every Friday night.
Fishing at Evans head with my best mate.
Nice old homes is it Dutch? in any case the roof on most showed European influences.
Ten are rubble now,after that storm, no one can remember one being destroyed before, or such a storm.
South coast, see the water spout? big wasn't it.
It, if true will not rush us over night, symptoms as we are told will come by degrees.
So why not take action? just in case?
QandA OK went close to leaving as an influx of newbys seemed to want to tear the walls down.
But staying has seen it get better, we must understand SOME will never be balanced contributors.
Not kidding about the book, authors note,humor sells .
First try reviewing CARBON TAX posts.
We out did Abbott here, blame useless Lil [Gillard] if it helps,
But the sky is falling due to this tax killed Abbott.
And to think, here some inflated the THING even more.
Re read and laugh,
PS my work is my garden,hard to take that from me.
My joy? had the Australian Workers dream exit
Told an extremely rude self inflated bad boss just what to do with his job, no detail left out in middle of a work day.
Joy, fun, HONESTY!