We could this morning fill manus Island the Nehru.
And have enough to fill both again.
We are in very real trouble.
If only we knew the true cost to this country, how many new Hospitals, Schools?
Can we Blame the ALP if we must, for past foolish mistakes.
But with true hearts and minds think about solutions not convictions.
Parliament sat this week, a Bun fight within a riot, not one question about this massive debt making problem.
How can it be? that I think/know I see our money poring down a big bottomless hole.
And too no bias, that I see a man we one day will ALL be happy to see the last off Abbott watching it go, with a grin.
Here some would even support drowning them at sea, thankfully few.
Yet Malaysia waits, willing to be part of the resolution.
What other country, in what part of the would, is willing to help? to take these folk.
Our country is being out maneuvered by criminal smugglers.
Will we ever again stop the boats, is the unfairness to boat refugees, a term I question, worse than being unfair to those folk in need of a Hospital or School, maybe ten off them?

Belly,
This present Labor government must own up to directly causing the illegals problem. They stuffed it up big time and now the illegals believe we are so soft and stupid that they still come and we accept them. I read this morning that the Sri Lankan government has turned around 50 boats in recent times. We even gave in completely in the 'Oceanic Viking' fiasco and, to date about 1000 have died. Those we rescued in Indonesian waters, got a free ride to Christmas Island.

The starting point to stop the boats coming is to fully implement the previous governments policies, including TPVs. Try Malaysia as well if you like, but now far tougher measures are required.

What about no legal aid, no family reunion, no documents= no visa ever.

The expenditure and waste created by this government is ridiculous. It must be made not worth the illegals trouble to get here, and then they will stop. Do not give them what they seek.

Belly, I agree it is pointless playing the blame game any further, however, having said this, labor should do the honorable thing and walk away from governing this country, otherwise we face the prospect of them being re elected by default, for something like Tony Abbott upsetting someone, or some group.

That is step one.

Step two is to do what Banjo suggests, that being reintroducing EVERYTHING that worked in the past.

Unfortunately though, nothing other than a big stick will work now as this fiasco has been allowed to run virtually unchecked for several years now and no amount of soft alternatives will work.

Quite simply, this is us being peacefully invaded, a product of utter utter incompetence, almost singlehandedly by one power hungry man who woke up one morning and decided to fix something that simply wasn't broken.

With the figure being something like $4.5 billion, and counting, I fear we will have to cut many services and slash much needed financial assistance for our own unless someone grows some balls and treats this issue for what it is, a war, albeit a peaceful one, at the moment.

Gentlemen in a dispute we each grab our guns and hold our ground, and nothing changes.
Yes Labor bought this about, but holding on to that will fix nothing.
Let us first ask why Labor got it wrong.
International concerns, in all probability no less than now, made them want a softer solution.
They failed.
That international UNHCR and others, disquiet will grow if we turn the boats around.
Or fail to see the TPV will no longer work.
Both sides want to look better than the other.
And both betray us all.
Labor was told, and informed the Libs, Nehru would not work, it has not.
Both sides need a kick in the ring, now.
Malaysia is more cruel than TPVs, those holding TPVs mostly came here full time.
IF we send all 800-1600-2400 to Malaysia, and take [we already are taking 4.000 ] our up to 12.000, and they stay at the end of a list, for years.
Surely the boats will stop?
Tell me another solution, I would like the government, beg them! to implement every coalition wish bar sending the boats back, to prove it will not work.
To let us move on to an end to the boats.
How about we pay a $100.000 reward for every smuggler convicted and sentenced?

To hell with international concern, we have to stop this rot.

I don't think there would be much international concern either. Apart from a few bleeding heart & the UN most would cheer, & follow our example.

The UN is the crux of the problem. Idiot Gillard wanting a seat on the security council, & Ruddy a top job is what led them to the softly softly approach, & still stops our fool lady doing anything in Oz favour now.

Tow them back & be damned. That or warn a few, & sink them if they enter our waters after that warning, is probably the only solution now. The larger any outcry, the sooner boats would stop.

The only other choice is a slow one, but should work. We have to offer safety to those who make our shore, by this fool convention, but that does not entail resettlement, or any other services.

We could set up a compound in say the pilbara, similar to the UN refugee camps in Africa. Supply tents food & safety, with no chance of entering Oz as a citizen, & over time the flood will stop.

What ever we do, it had better be soon, My son tells me the navy is getting an increasing flow of resignations, from men who won't keep towing illegals into Oz much longer. The problem is now too large for Julia to avoid any longer.

Who said boat people is not working ? I think it works better than they could have hoped for. In fact, it's a marvel of a system. They've managed to get more people into the country than the immigration department's visa system.

How about we pay a $100.000 reward for every smuggler convicted and sentenced?
Belly,
I have a better idea. How about $100,000.- reward for everyone who can convert a Labor voter to come to their senses & help the Coalition to right Labor's wrongs ?
It would be more morally right to reward a sensible coalition voter to make things right than keep rewarding Labor supporters for snowballing this incompetence.

It's an exercise is futility debating you people on this subject. Your minds are already made up, based on your ideology. "Some" Australians are heartless and cruel, and they don't care ... they lead powerless lives and it makes them feel strong and in control by being anti refugee.

Just hope that Australia is never invaded, or involved in an internal war, and that YOUR daughter, son, uncle, cousin, child etc etc doesn't become a refugee. THEN you'd change your heartless and inhumane fixed attitudes.

By the way, they are NOT "illegals". That term is used as a personal abuse towards refugees by some people here on this forum. Most people here have the basic intelligence to know that it's 100% LEGAL for any refugee to enter Australian territory, via any means whatsoever. Why do they use it as a personal abuse? Well, what does "h a t e" spell, what does "f e a r" spell and what does "p a r a n o i a" spell? That's your answer.

But nonetheless, carry on with your insular attitudes. "Fortress Australia" is alive and well in the minds of "some" people ... the extreme and personal attitudes on this forum towards refugees represent only a small minority of Australians, and are ideologically based. Most Australians have more decency.

Hay Pete, I believe I'm, about as flexible as you mate. Do you think we can change your opinion? I guess you don't believe a democracy should be for the majority, unless you're it.

You see we don't believe it will take a warlike invasion, for our kids to become refugees in their own country, just more of your bleeding heart rubbish, & Labors incompetence, accidental, or designed, filling the place up with uninvited gate crashers.

Just hope that Australia is never invaded,
DiamondPete,
You can't be serious !! What do you think this whole ugly business is all about ? We ARE being invaded right now, right under our noses or is your nose that high up that you can't see past the bottom frame of your pink-coloured glasses ?
Geez, some people really need to have reality whacked into their heads before they understand.

Diamond Pete,
You are a fool. Being anti the illegals does not give me a feeling of power, frustration if anything. Frustrated because this bloody government stuffed up and put out the welcome mat for the shonks to gate crash our country. You are basicly saying that we should welcome these intruders or with your inside knowledge of Labor, it was a deliberate move to allow the illegals to invade us.

For you information, it is illegal for any non citizen to enter Aus without a valid visa, That is why we can and do lock them up. We do not lock up or detain persons that enter legally. This fact has been posted here many times with reference to the Immigration Act and reference from the DIAC website. You are obviously very ignorant.

The illegals are con artist cheats and frauds who buy their way here, and paying far more than the normal air fare to get in the back door. They do so with the deliberate intention of deceiving us. That is why I dislike them and want them stopped.

Belly>> Both sides need a kick in the ring, now <<

Why both sides? The Libs will vote for the Howard govt solution if Labor present it, it worked.

Thanks for identifying that the economic refugees are a problem and thanks for acknowledging that it is the result of failed Labor policy. But no kudos sport for blaming the Libs as well, they are not the majority.

Belly I have no issue with Malaysia, it may have worked and the deal would have seen genuine refugees finding a home in Australia as part of our annual intake.

But without temporary protection visas and off shore processing we still have an open boarder. Below is what a TPV dictates and it is a fitting deterent for a queue jumper who pays a smuggler and throws away their identification.

>> People granted TPVs are not allowed to re-renter Australia should they choose to leave, and their family members living in other countries are not allowed to visit or join them here. They are barred from accessing the Job Network and funded English programs. They have limited access to health, education and community services.
Temporary Protection Visas (TPVs) is a hot term when considered to be a disincentive designed for asylum seekers who arrive in Australia without a valid visa. Distress is caused to TPV holders by the restrictive conditions under which they have to live, the inability to reunite with their family, uncertainty of their future status and the potential threat of being deported to a country in which their safety is at risk.<<

It was Kev not Howard or Abbott that dismantled a working policy so the soft matey dig at "both sides" is a crock china.

We definitely need TPVs. And we need the definition of a refugee to be interpreted toughly instead of in the most lenient possible manner.

We definitely do not need the Malaysian carry-on. 800 refugees to be sent there in exchange for 4000 coming into Australia. No way!

Luddy, I think the 4000 are included in our commitment, not extras.

Soggy, I presume you mean that those 4000, to come here over four years if we were to implement this Malaysian thing, would displace 1000 offshore refugees each year, so that our total refugee intake wouldn’t change, but those 1000 people who would have come here will just get to wait a year or so longer or perhaps not get to come at all??

I say at best locate them in the outback, with tents, food and water. At worst, send them back, turn them around.

If It turns out they have something to offer, then look at them,as the last thing we can afford is more non contributing passengers, don't you think.

After all, surely we have a duty of care to see our own people are cared for before any who arrive illegally and uninvited as these lot do.

Let the insularity and inflexible anti refugee ideology here continue on ... nothing can change the ideology of the early last century "Fortress Australia" policy, that several people here religiously embrace. Cling to your inhumanity and continue living in a LONG past Australia.

The rest of Australia will simply move on and advance, and leave behind the old fashioned ideology of national insularity. Some radicals, and far right wingers, will forever be stuck in the past: No amount of debate, or logic, or common decency will convince them otherwise.

will forever be stuck in the past:
DiamondPete,
The past is proven, we have evidence, evidence which clearly shows that the future will be an intolerable mess if we don't take action now, action which has proven right several times already.

My point was ably demonstrated by individual's rely.

Thanks individual.

Well to those I am about to offend fore give me, this as are many of our subjects, is a dogs breakfast.
Many put their view in the form of a jack boot, and keep the mind closed.
I think just maybe, we are not representative of the real Australia.
If we are? God help us!
No TPV will help, show me how, based on it once working it can now.
Gee a child could see the 800 for 4.000 is a reason, THE ONLY SINGLE ONE, Malaysia would help at all.
Why else would they?
IT IS A REWARD FOR SERVICES every side wants a win.
Now the red neck beggar the world lets kick them, do we know what a trade embargo is, want one?
Malaysia will STOP the boats.
We will see Liberals stop them, even if by using this solution.
So, for Australia,s sake why not get both sides to work together now?
SOG sorry but you are over your head.

Ok Pete, so let's put aside the issue of whether or not we should help these people, or even care about there situation, and let's look at the situation from a logical point of view.

No name calling, no insults, just plain logic.

How do you propose we fund this ongoing arrival of boat people?

What do you propose we cut in the way of services, from our own people, in order to fund this?

Last I saw, we were at about the $4.5 billion mark, in way of funding this monster and, the numbers have increased significantly in the past year or so.

Now we will at best be in surplus in another year, although i seriously doubt that, however, this will only be achieved through the slashing of much needed funding, so there will be no spare cash.

So seriously,given that you are obviously so supportive of these arrivals, how do you propose we fund this, and what is it you think we can do without in doing so.

I think we would all agree that the likes of health, education and mental health are off limits.

BTW, while giving this your consideration, please spare a thought for our aging population, and the fact that the taxes paid by these baby boomers, a portion of which should have been saved for funding their retirement, have been squandered.

Pete,
You are slipping badly in trying to take the high moral ground.

How does luring about 1000 to their deaths fit into your 'more humane' policy?

Get real.

Imagine just for one minute if we used the resources we waste on this debacle on providing a safer place for these refugees in their own countries. We'd probably still be ahead financially & have less crowding here.
We do have some moral obligation to help those in need but don't have any obligation whatsoever to help them invading us.
The best desirable outcome would be not to have any refugees at all rather than what's happening now. But then again those who so desperately want to help them with our money, effort & our future would be dead-set against going into their countries & create peace. Naw, much smarter to wreck the rest of the planet. Morons !

DP as do about 80% of contributors here, takes his own narrow path.
A path that is uninterested in majority's views wishs or want.
Most Australians want this trade to end, now.
We will except refugees/migrants, but want a say in who and when.
REALITY says if Labor does not stop the Liberals will.
Rechtub dumping them in the out back will not work, and should not be considered.
I think DP is a green in other clothing, no one can blame a green for hiding their true colors.
Avoid it if you must.
But in all truth Malaysia is the CURRENT answer.
Show me how the two in use can even hold these numbers.
The disjointed junk comment about bribing Labor voters comes from a dark place.
A place haunted by the darkest thoughts of no understanding at all.
We have a problem, how many want to wait for an election to fix it.
If 20 smugglers got trapped by the reward, we would spend 2 million dollars, cheap.
It may stop more trying.
We could put individuals post history, in every place refugees wait to come here, few would bother after that.

But in all truth Malaysia is the CURRENT answer.
Belly,
Typical Labor short-term view. look ahead mate, ahead for crying out loud. Geez ! Malaysia is way past the half-way mark, too close already.
Stop them from being refugees then no-one could claim refugee status. period !

My points have been proven by the content of the replies from the handful of people here who are anti refugee.

These few anti refugee supporters are amongst a minority of Australians who are paranoiac about refugees. Last century this minority of Australians had real power, and developed the White Australia Policy. Throughout the last 100 years or so these types of people resisted virtually EVERY influx of migrants and refugees (except from predominantly white countries like England , USA, Ireland etc). Basically they believe in an insular, Fortress Australia, and that we are being invaded by horrid, dangerous people.

EVERY long past influx of migrants and refugees has resulted in long term economic and social benefit to Australia. It's broadened our country's horizons and made Australia a better place. The long term economic benefits have always been WAY, WAY more than any initial, short term economic cost.

But the minority of Australians who are rabidly anti refugee, like the several people here, will forever remain closed minded to the worth of refugees as people and how they can benefit our great nation. Nothing whatsoever can change their minds. There always was, is, and will always be people like this who possess an insular view of Australia. So be it. They are a minority. They will never open their minds.

Diamond Pete are you related to Indy? both posts make little sense.
He wants the imposable you claim, on your green behalf we think differently than we do.
Down the back of the hall you will find a single seat, it is the greens place in history, face to the corner.
Constantly claiming mass support, as the polls show the opposite, a lost tribe.
Truth is, as HOWARD KNEW, Australians want an end to boat ECONOMIC MIGRANTS, using the word refugee is deceptive they are not.
Some surely more capable than Indy see more than a chance Malaysia will work?
If not tell me what will.
Tell me too how we return those without papers.
Now by all means, make it a crime, not for true refugees but boat people, to come without papers.
Ripping the ALP apart is fun, but how will it fix this?

DiamondPete,
I'm not anti refugee in the sense that some people are in dire need of help. I'm anti refugee in the sense that it is abhorrent that there are refugees due to political & religious persecution.
You are simply too silly & short-sighted to comprehend what I'm advocating. Why don't you concentrate on commenting on frisbee throwing or something similar that is more in line with your mentality.
You could also try & live in enclaves chocked up with anti westerners & write about that but I don't suppose they'd let you hang off their aprons like our authorities do.
Some of us have to express concern about the threat to our Nation because the silly ones like you don't due to a severe lack of sense & foresight.

Belly,
The presence of the ALP caused this mess so it's not too unreasonable to think that the absence of the ALP might actually fix it again.

Keep posting guys. Almost every time you guys post ... you prove me right. Thanks.

DiamondPete,
No point in trying to make us feel sorry for you.

Belly,
I think you are right about DP being a green,

I had him down as a rusted on ALP supporter but he is not as he cannot see how badly this is affecting Labor and the cost to Australia. I reckon that silly Hanson-Young sheila would be his pin up.

Imagine what position Labor would now be in if they had not altered things and the money spent on the Pacific and Bruce highways. At least Labor would have had some infastructure to show the electors.

I notice 579 has not commented on this thread as i think even he can see the damage this continued saga is doing to Labor.

The vast majority of people want the boats stopped, full stop.

DP is an excellent example, but not the only one here, of the folly of both over valuing your own opinion and under valuing others.
Some need no mirrors they are too self assured.
Now lets think, try to at least Indy, so Labor bought this on.
YES IT DID.
How does that resolve the issue, gloating about it is as handy as an ash tray ona Harley Davidson.
How do we fix it and when.
Wait another 12 months as our young Indy says, what another ten thousand people.
Some here could not move the milking cow to the home paddock without three guides four dogs and mum,s help.

The facts are labor are to blame for this mess and, they have pussy footed around, playing the blame game for some four years now, only to finally adopt libs policies, except the main one that worked, costing billions along the way.

The real question should be, do labor actually deserve another chance to fix this self induced train wreck, or, should
they do the honorable thing and resign to the fact that they are simply incapable of finding a workable solution and step aside.

After all said and done, this is just one (albeit the worst one) of the dozens of stuff ups that this government has caused.

Even as we speak they are hel bent on returning to surplus (at any cost) where the cost will most certainly be jobs, and lots of them as the conditions now, along with the uncontrolled waste means that the numbers they relied upon in formulating their budget forecast are no longer relevant.

They are simply worried about yet another backflip, rather than what's best for the country.

Now consider this, if they were a board of directors, they would have been sacked.

If they were company directors they would have been charged, some perhaps even jailed.

If they were a business, they would have filed for bankruptcy a long time ago.

If they were a home buyer they would have been refused credit, given their poor record.

They have simply proven beyond doubt , in my view, that they are completely out of their league.

How do we fix it and when.
Belly,
Are you really that obstructive & unwilling to solve that problem? You ask the above question yet you are vehemently against the start of solving that problem. Let's
begin by removing incompetent Labor politicians who simply are unable to see reality because they chose to screen reality with their unworkable do-gooder ideologies.
Rather than focus on a solution Labor are focussing on the game of vindictiveness. Not that the other mob is entirely faultless of that either.
Those who support flooding Australia with non-genuine boat arrivals should be had for treason & sent to those countries who send the people to Indonesia on their way here.
I'm certain if enough do-gooders go to the refugee factory countries & help the people to build a better life there they'd become the biggest supporters against the boat people.

Belly,
I must ask, why is Labor just fiddling around and not implementing ALL the recomendations of the Houston report, like TPVs and the Malaysia scheme. I am getting the impression that they really do not want to stop the boats.

This government is trying to gain a seat on the UNSC and I wonder if the increased refugees is deliberate, to appease some sections of the UN. They have spent $3 billion in buying the support of Carribeen and African nations.

Does labor see a seat on the UNSC as a very high prize? I do not as I do not think very highly of the UN anyway. The vote apparently takes place very soon.

Even if successful, will electors here think it a great achievement and will Labor be able to gain electoral support in the time left to the election?

Or should I continue to put the whole thing down to the adoption of ideology over practicality and Rudd's stupidity, as was his easy caving in during the 'Oceanic Viking' incident. I can understand Gillard cowtowing to the greens on this. Remember both Rudd and Gillard promised to 'stop the boats'.

I think it is fair to say Rudd & now Julia were playing around with this long enough for everyone to realise it is no accident.

Rudd wants a UN job, we all know that.

Julia wants a seat on the security council. We have spent hundreds of millions on that for her, & keeping the flow of gate crashers coming on boats is another part of the price of that desire of hers. She also needs the green vote to stay in The Lodge.

It is not reasonable to believe that even one as incompetent as Gillard could not have stopped this flow of these shonky immigrants who call themselves refugees, if she had wished to.

It becomes obvious that both Rudd, & Gillard are simply using Oz & it's people to feather their own nests, one way or another on this issue.

To think that there are still people (people for want of a better word) who want these two egotists & their cronies ruining this country is simply beyond belief.
Don't these beings have any conscience at all ?

Banjo are you just being funny??
IF Abbott would let Malaysia go it would have been used already.
Gillard has it ready to start, do most of us know we are keeping our side of the bargain?
We are taking the 4.000 REFUGEES we said we would.
We are ready to send the first 800.
Now some are quite bright here, so can we just look at some who posted here.
Do you see the inability to even consider achievable out comes here.
Plenty of things we dare not do.
And how will the constant harping about Labors past wrongs help?
Say we make Indy Minister in charge,will dead body,s a meter deep help?
Soon very soon, Abbott will use the issue again, 552 forgive me if number not quite right, arrived THIS WEEKEND.
I want that stopped.
Try Malaysia, Bar all no document holders from entering forever, if that say imprison them OK.
But those incapable of looking for a solution, only blame, are in fact of no use, as is Abbott,s front bench.
This is costing our country we need no fifth columnists we need an end to it.
Cheer us all up! use the old boats to send Gillard and Abbott over there.

Hello there BELLY and BANJO...

I agree with both of your remarks herein. But we have a Minister, and a government, who are either unwilling or unable to stem the 'floe' of illegals.

And I'm not entirely sure whether or not the 'Howard' solution would even work again today ? See, the trouble is, we're 'scared' of the almighty, corrupt, and ineffectual United Nations. And with Mr Carr running about trying to gain us a temporary seat on the Security Council (WHY oh WHY for heavens ?) we'll never gain any influence with 'em anyway.

As I've said before. Australia is so so weak ! Worse, we don't have ANY leaders. Anyway what does the UN actual stand for ? Look at what carnage is happening daily in Syria ? And what can the UN do about it, try as it might nothing, regrettably.

See you boys...Cheers-Sung Wu

Try Malaysia, Bar all no document holders from entering forever, if that say imprison them OK.
Belly,
Imprison them where ? I Malaysia ? Indonesia ? I wouldn't hold my breath. They're not imprisoned there now & won't be in the future. Why would they imprison their own minded ? Why would they let them in just to have to look after them in Prison ? Much easier to pass them on to sillier countries.

o sung wu,
Spot on !

O sung wo in all honesty I am unsure Gillard wants to fix this ENOUGH.
But bloke come, this is a crisis.
Malaysia, Abbott can fix this issue, if he wants to wait he is no better than Gillard.
Tell my why it will not work.
TPVs some unaware even of what they are, say they, as they once had been, are the answer, no they are not.
Parliament will roar and chest thump but in truth both party,s must act now.
BILLIONS of our dollars are wasted, shame on both sides.

It's a joke beyond comprehension.

I say, either we use the big stick approach now, or we use guns later.

It's only a matter of time, as they (illegals) will either over run us, or break us.

Surely we're not goimg to just sit back and see which one it is.

Good evening to you - INDIVIDUAL, BELLY and REHCTUB...

You're so correct in your summation of the seriousness of the situation. Anyone who wilfully attempts to deceive OZ authorities by discarding all documentation of identification, is NOT the sort of individual who in my humble opinion, will make a positive contribution to Australia, or our way of life.

If they begin their journey to OZ, based on an ideology or doctrine of deception. Will they continue to employ such illegitmate practices and principles, if and when they receive the right to settle here ?

Moreover, whenever they wish to advance a claim or further their causes on any issues, which might well prove diametrically foreign to our way of life. Will they again regress to those deceptive measures, considered proscribed, in order to achieve their ends. Similar to that, which they initially utilized, when they first entered the country ?

And REHCTUB, you're sadly so right. If we don't begin to present a much firmer posture with many of these people now, will it not end in violence, sometime in the future ?

Well said o sung wu.

Cheers.

Thanks Rechtub/o sung wo/ Ludwig.
Maybe I best contribute by telling you who it feels for a true believer.
I remain one, but my true belief in Gillard and Swan are unprintable.
Right now Labor is in crisis.
One it appears unable to fix.
It could be hidden threats to leave Parliament if leaders change.
But includes Thomson and tight numbers.
On Malaysia? SOME independents, Greens, Abbott,s rabbits, will not let it be put in place.
It will be wrapped like a news paper and used to flog Labor.
Gillard lacks the skill to tell us this, maybe she lacks too, the will to tell us.
SOME of her actions are purely fear.
I too fear, the drift of my party to Greens, Greens, unaware of it those who go to them, are in the end enemy,s of over 80% of Australians.
And they stall our wishes and wants, we divide our country by voting for a do nothing group of dreamers.
O SUNG WO in his work life would have seen car thiefs get 12 months or more in prison.
Yet these criminals, oh yes they are!
Get sent to an Island feed and looked after.
And as Howard did, oh yes he did, sneaked in to this country in the end.
So? give Malaysia a chance,ship every arrival, yes 800 for 4.000,within a week to Malysia,papers marked NO ENTRY IN TO AUSTRALIA FOR LIFE.
Build hospitals with our savings.
AND tell us NOW! how much it is costing to look after boat people.
Last? Gillard has some fine people, but she could not lead a hairy grub train to food.
Rudd like him or not would fix this Kevin is a different man, driven by his wish to not be replaced he is Kevin 13 not an unlucky number.
Labors single life boat

I think the answer lies within the Indonesian authorities.

I say the authorities as it is impossible for that many people/boats to leave, unnoticed.

We have our PM over there talking to the authorities, but I bet she has not mentioned the corruption from within which simply has to be a huge part of the cause.

Threats to foriegn aid may be a good place to start.

As for the smugglers, if the Indonisian authorities do their job, the smugglers would be arrested and thrown into some whole, that the authorities call, a gaol.

So perhaps the answer lies in us finding some way to enforce the authorities to take serious action, because let's face it, if the boats don't leave, we don't have to stop them.

Simply talking about it has proven to be a total waste of time.

Time for the big balls approach.

Time to 'man up' Julia. And that's not intended as a sexist remark.

If I had my way I would put together an international force similar to the UN but one with integrity. I would then go into those countries & grab those who make peoples' life a misery. To establish who the crap heads are I would enlist the able-bodied of the boat people to go back to their countries with those forces. The Nr 1 priority must be not to create refugees.
Why this is not done is beyond me. Billions upon billions, thousands upon thousands of lives lost & here we are, in a worse state than before. Why don't journos ask Obama & Putin et al blatantly "do you want this dreadful situation to drag on or stop it". Let's hear what they say.

Rechtub and Indy, sorry but in truth both can not be done.
First Indonesia, a free nation its own Master, is not the home of these fleas.
Just as we need to be in Manly to catch the ferry, they come from other country,s to the starting point *shortest possible* take off point.
In that country our best effort should be spent making it worth while to catch and imprison smugglers, a reward more than their bribes.
Indy, not possible.
But unless the UNHCR stops interfering with Nations right to chose its migrants we and other country should with draw, until it takes action.
Be aware this is not what it seems, we are victims to Social Engineering, maybe not all bad.
We would be better if it was one world one people.
But we are headed for the wrong one people, not us.
So? demand a say in the UNHCR, vote out ANY politician who will not hear the masses, who will not stop the boats.
And demand NO ENTRY TO AUSTRALIA for any boat person ever.
Increase migrant, not Muslim, in take from Malaysian camps.
Indonesian camps will empty.

Good afternoon to; BELLY, INDIVIDUAL, REHCTUB, and LUDWIG...

A couple of things if I may - Firstly, I'm heartened by the expectation that there're people like you out there, who are prepared to speak with so much sound common sense !

We're just ordinary folk who are mortified at the prospect of watching our beloved country being slowly usurped, from right under our collective noses, by a group of faceless men and women ensconced deep within the hallowed halls of Parliament House, Canberra.

It's these people who are either unable or unwilling to strongly preserve the integrity of our Borders!

My second issue;

All my adult life I've been an arch-conservative, and thus, voted for the Liberal Party both, in State and Federal elections. I've never apologised nor resiled from my conservative position.

Therefore, when I heard that Mr ABBOTT had blown the opportunity to canvass the views and opinions from the Indonesian President, on an important plank in the Liberal's 'Boat People' policy - by signalling his future Govt's intent to tow these leaky boats back from whence they came ? Apparently, he failed to do so !

May I ask why ? Stupidly, a rhetorical question I realize !

Mr Abbott, is no different than all the other 'pollies' in Canberra. All talk and promises, devoid of any substance.

This man who wishes to succeed Ms Gillard post the next election, has again demonstrated he's bereft of all (leadership) courage.

And please, don't let him claim he's waiting for a more appropriate time, and a more favourable diplomatic opportunity, in order to broach his solution with the President ? Simply, it just doesn't wash, sadly.

o sung wo you too add to my happiness .
Let me say this again 80% of us think and want alike out comes.
And while welded on Labor,I understand changes in governments are good for this country.
Tony Abbott would/will not be.
Yes I understand, when I say Turnbull I get the lefty loony bit.
But strengthened by his loss, returning to what he is, the man is a statesman.
I see nothing close to that in Gillard, one day Shorten, if he does not dance too close to the fire, again, and Rudd if we have the Guts, can be again.
Labors weakness is it expels those who differ not remembering we are a big Church, with room for every one, bar the Greens.
Some how I fear, unless we see Malaysia re-introduced next sitting day, Abbott will after a victory do it and look good, to the true blind.

Watched Minister Bowen on ABC, he is a good Minister.
He wanted to take action early Gillard stomped on him.
He may have some thing up his sleeve.
I hope so.
This issue can bring about an early election.
Some independents Wilkie the wa&&a will not vote for Malaysia.
So if it comes? please Abbott /Gillard, take the needed three months to make it a double dissolution one.
We get rid of wilkie and many greens that way, and Gillard, gee almost worth the pain.

In all seriousness, I don't think there is a solution, oit unless we take a very hard line approach, something I doubt will happen in this PC gone mad world we have created for ourselves.

So the question is, how much longer can we continue to fund thus shambles.

At best, we just take funding from elsewhere, health, education, mental health, aged pensions/care, the list goes on.

At worst, we see some of our soles to secure funding by way of borrowings.

Why the he'll can't the powers to be see just how serious this mess is.

Why the he'll don't they just take what ever action, short of war, that is needed to stop this debacle and stop it now.

I stilll say, they caused the mess and, if they can't fix it, step aside, as it's our furthers this lot are risking, not theirs, cause they will forever be well paid, whether the succeed or fail.

Rechtub I want to take a different approach to this issue.
Like the Muslim riot one, we both while having differing answers, hold similar views.
And any view, on both subjects, is supported by some.
Using H,s fine thread as a start, let us see why it is so important to so many, any why it has not been fixed.
First concerns came post Vietnam war, and its boat people.
That debate, in differing times, and after a true war, saw racism, right to white Australian bigotry run as reason for fear.
A negative side, not majority, but negative still, was the importation of crime groups.
And SOME following generations, Australians, continuing that crime connection.
Again negative but not over riding the positives.
Now we see a two headed snake, SOME of the Muslim faith who came here under a Liberal Prime Minister, mirror that trend, bought great harm,and following generations still continue it.
Maybe if not for that we would see past who is coming now.
We need to see not every Muslim is so harsh on our culture.
But too that it is pure poison to say we can ever, except enclaves of near no go in our country.
14.000 came under Howard in 11 years.
25.000 under Gillard/Rudd in 5 years.
Some scream at us that if we took them all in it would be a flea on a dogs back.
We all ignore that it is LESS THAN OUR ANNUAL INTAKE of refugees.
But they are gate crashers, some quite rich, very few refugees, and SOME forever, not wanting our culture.
WE WANT THEM STOPPED.
WHY? if we today, said let every one of them in, watch for Gillard doing just that!
Next year it could/would? be 100.000
In ten years? 2 million? ten million?
Short on posts,new threads, will continue here and leave others today.

FIXING IT.
Remember I said all view,s are supported by some one.
And too opposed by many.
It is true, bar a high court ruling in my View it would have been fixed by the Malaysian solution.
In that case the pink green left and bleeding heart academia , very few over ruled the wishes of the many.
Too we just must as well as laying the blame on Labor, I do, but understand even if they had not got it so very wrong it may have still gone bad.
We should in HONESTY know Labor offered Liberals both Manus and Nehru and only a recommendation from Gillards independent group got past the NEGATIVITY.
Rechtub this can not be resolved, Greens are as useless as a dead tree, independents SOME stunned in the light of minority views.
ONLY Labor and Liberals TO GETHER can fix it.
Right now my challenge to both is do it.
What other than Malaysia exists now?
What other than REWARDING thousands of boat people from gaining entry in a empty the camps rush is on the cards?
IF it takes us taking 24.000 from that country, in return for 2.400 of our unwanted arrivals, to end the trade.
Then we benefit as does Indonesia Malaysia as boats stop.
A side issue that just must be addressed.
We should abolish the purely silly Australia test,and ask out right of every Migrant
*Do you respect Australians right to their own culture?, and do you agree to abide by our laws*
It takes two Rechtub,shame we only have Gillard and Abbott, in that matter too I have support, far more than most think.
LAST? some will cringe and say lie! but our SOCIAL WELFARE is the driving force for many to come here, consider a minimum work history before granting it!

belly,
About 12 months till the election and I doubt if the illegals situation will be fixed by then. Labor has neither the backbone or the inclination, as they have not introduced all of Houstons recomendations.

I think the removal of Howards measures was deliberate, to comply with Rudd's 'big australia' ideology, which alone will cost them the looming election.

No doubt when elected the Libs will fix it, by stopping the boats. The remedy is simple, just do not give the illegals what thaey seek.

Was surprized that you, a few posts ago, think it is a good idea to be rid of Wilkie. If I recall correctly,a while back, you were posting strongly in support of his anti poker machines proposals. You were extremely keen to convince us that the legislation, supported by Labor, was essential to stop people ruining themselves.

However once the government got more votes in the House, by installing Slipper, they told Wilkie to go jump, so put in place another Gillard lie.

Since then you have not mentioned a word about the necessity of poker machine reform, so apparently it is no longer a problem and the people do not need saving from themselves.

Or could it be that Labor simply had a vote losing policy at the time and you were seeking to give them support. Now the peoples interests do not matter.

Nauru is out of date, and nothing will resurrect that. Poker machine test case is in motion in Canberra.
Boat people could have been solved 2 years ago with the Malaysia plan.
So your gut full of sour grapes are fermenting quite well, by the sound of it

Ok, so how will Malaysia solve the problem, as it is my understanding we send some 800 there and receive 4000 in return.

What do we do with the 4000, there's no jobs out there, unless of cause you're STILL in denial about that as well 579.

So what services do we slash to support all these immigrants?

Remember, funding is already under extreme pressure, chasing the at any cost surplus.

Ok i will explain it in terms even you can understand. Why would anyone give someone 10,000 $ to get on a boat that ends up with them being sent back to Malaysia, this is where most of them arrived at in the first place. They leave from Indonesia now because it is closer to AU.
There are more people in work now than anytime in history.
Cuts will be made to set up a surplus, why should it consist of slashing jobs, its taxation the jobs supply, that will create a surplus.
There is nothing to worry about, we are riding the waves with expert skill.

Banjo, and Rechtub, give me a hearing please.
Wilkie first, I agreed with his poker reforms.
They NEVER, as it turned out HAD ANY CHANCE independents did not support them, Liberals and Nationals did not support them.
So? Gillard, NOT WANTING TO BE BEATEN IN THE LOWER HOUSE did not put them.
Unlike Katter,and the other two ex Nationals, note all three are EX nationals.
Wilkie is ex green and I have targeted him HERE OVER AND AGAIN for winning his seat from third finishing spot, as the single green in the lower house has.
He is, more than any other, trading his vote like a woman of ilrepute.
I rest my case, Banjo your claim waswrong never had legs how much else is wrong.
Rechtub/Banjo, if we read every post in a thread we take part in we find answers.
Trust me, not being a smart A, Malaysia my view 100% true, will stop the boats.
In my post history I have explained the maths at least ten times, twice in this thread.
Banjo, at current numbers,increasing fast, we will see if not stopped about ten to 20 thousand before the election.
And folks no joke, unless you can take the it will never happen turn them back.
And the it will not work now TPV out and look honestly.
Nehru is dead Manus will be tell me other than Malaysia what will work.
Those waiting for Labors head on a stick will get it, gift rapped by Gillard.
But your dream comes with truth, Abbott is not to be trusted.

579, I am sorry but it is impossible to reason with someone who is in denial, but I will try.

Where do you propose the cuts needed will come from, without effecting jobs?

Also, if we do this people swap, where will they work, or will we simp,y have to dig deeper and provide for them as well.

Rechtub I think on one point, not what 579 says, but what you said, we need room to move.
IT WILL TAKE BOTH SIDES if we are to fix this now.
Numbers in the house have frozen any action.
Last night, on Dateline even the hardest heart could have questioned why we do not just let them in.
Greens will be feeling justified and bitter about those of us who say no.
English speaking young men, the type we would employ or have a drink with.
The forerunners of whole family,s who they are trying to pioneer for then bring here, even dieing trying to get here.
Just as ,many who share my views exist.
Great numbers will use in the days and weeks to come,a film one young man made to ask us to bring more here.
Ignore at our peril, Labors soft approach more than doubled the numbers, in fact all measures point to trebling of them.
Can we afford another trebling?
However blame all or no one, todays answer is to a different problem, nothing stands still.
TPV,s let folk in to Australia to wait.
A wave of determination, to come no matter the costs has rolled over not just us,but the northern hemisphere.
Given a middle east war the numbers may overwhelm us.

Butch you have been telling us for years about all this wasted money there is, so if we round that up there will be money everywhere.
The correction for the budget has been finalized, and ready to roll.
There is around 200,000 jobs in AU that have not been filled, as of the 8 10 12 .
Anybody worth their salt need not go without a job.
So try not to worry it is not good for health reasons.

579 I am unsure how we got away from boat people.
And how so many are mixing Migration with Refugees, and even 457 Visa holders.
Clearly all separate issues.
You need to except, Austral;ians from every side of Politics, ours too, want an end to the arrivals.
We are failing to get the right to witness Abbott,s Negativity, strong evidence NOT FIXING THE PROBLEM serves him best.
But from the purely racist, the xenophobic, to the not in my back yarder,s.
A majority wants the trade ended.
Now we, I am in that group, may well be heartless.
But some contribution comes from the REFUGEES THEM SELVES.
Wearing middle eastern dress on our streets, to HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFERENCE.
Crime gangs shootings and inbread hate, for us.
I think we have run our course.
But a day will come that arrivals are thousands a day, in a war even if from Iran.
Will that be an invasion?

So just exactly how are we going to round all this money up 579.

Are we going to bring back 'wasteful Kev', or, are we going to see the 'real Julia' number four.

Or, perhaps a better idea would be to allow the libs to go to work and do what they have a PROVEN RECORD FOR, and that's stop the waste, pay back the debt and put some cash away.

But hey, why allow history to get in the way, that would be just too clever by half.

Any thread such as this one divids us.
It hurts us all in the end.
Understanding our friends are offended by our words.
And we some times by theirs.
But how else do we confront the truth.
Banjo dislikes me saying I am racist, I know I am not, know ANY of these boat people could have my last feed.
Last dollar, not being a self praiser, I would give my bed to any one in need.
But some, maybe never having had contact with the worst of these folk are content to judge.
My friend Lexi, may she be well, may be a refugee from such thoughts as mine.
A LARGE PART OF MY CITY, Sydney, is fenced off, today yesterday near every day gun shots are fired, you need to be brave or stupid if white Australian, to walk that area at night.
Yet I once did.
As a bush kid in town to work and go bush every weekend, without fear, what do we do about that.
How and why do we hide the ethnic back ground of victim and perpetrator?