<< Can some one show me the link to National service and this threads subject?
We all divert threads but this is far more than that. >>

Not a diversion Belly. I’d say it is well within the subject at hand. We need a broad approach to these things. We need to not just concentrate on the personalities of leaders but to explore ways of getting one or both parties to actually pick up their act and give us a meaningful choice to vote for....and one that will actually be good for the country.

As I’ve said before; it’s not the leaders, it’s the policies that count!

Ludwig good morning.
It is my view that our current state of politics in this country, and our two leaders are the issue.
I can not find a time in my memory that BOTH sides had been so poorly led.
Policy's? right now good policy's mixed with stupid ones bring little real attention.
So fixed are both sides, rightly in my view, on the faults of the other.
Right now, Abbott as always has been the case, is beatable, but not by Gillard ever.
We, voters party's every one,seem content to say they will not vote for those others, BUT THEY WILL.
Gillard said yesterday she will lead to the cliff fall, sorry lemming march, gee election.
IF either of these two win an election my country will suffer.
I disagree Ludwig, the National service thing, not one you introduced, and the sins of the ALP 1972 TO 1975, 40 years ago! is a weapon often used.
I refrain forever from mentioning it again.
We deserve far better will not get it until one side sees from outside the house what is taking place inside.
Clan loyalty that hides this dysfunction on both sides betrays us all.

G'day Belly, Haven't had a shot for a while but here it comes.

The subject, Bill(the dill)Shorten. A couple of months ago you were singing his praises as a future ALP leader and PM (that will be the day). What a sycophant, there he was caught out agreeing with Gillard and he hadn't even heard what she had said. After all when it comes to Thomson and Slipper Gillard and I presume Shorten, have had more positions than you would find in the 'Kamasutra'. Great leadership material "Even though I haven't got a clue what the PM said I totally agree with what ever she said, she's always right, and..er..rrr. um..I love dat girl" What a tossa. Can I have you view of good old Bill now.

sins of the ALP 1972 TO 1975, 40 years ago! is a weapon often used.
Belly,
heavily wrong statement again. They weren't sins of 40 years ago & they're not a weapon.
It was & is INCOMPETENCE & that is a fact & not a weapon.
You're nastily critical of Abbott who is not even in power but you don't denounce the ruining of the country by the ALP. Yes you openly declare your displeasure with Gillard but you still rather denounce those who aren't as yet proven instead of denouncing the proven failures of Labor.
When you admit that the ALP is a failure you might get some respect from many here.

Paul love that hidden concern you have about an ALP revival.
Get a grin too at you green plate in hand standing out side the kitchen window waiting in case crumbs from Labors troubles fall on it.
Your best and only chance of progressing.
Bill Shorten does not need ME to defend him.
Proud to have known him.
He has an ego as big as Sydney Harbor Bridge and ability 4 times that big.
He like every politician,is watching the media feed on our troubles and made very sure he did not feed them.
I think he is ready to become the man we thought, I think, Rudd was.
You wait in vain for those crumbs but will not go hungry big humble pie on the way.
No further interaction as per your request Indy!

Howard at least thinks Labor will have a choice.
He says Rudd will return before the election,[why are no polls asking us about him]
My eternal problem man Joel Fitzgibbon, is he growing up? or acting in his own interests?
Has told the vacant spot filling the Prime Ministers chair Gillard he no longer supports her!
Out standing Joel! do you still think Australia does not need unions?
Fingers crossed Parliament sits next week love to see early arrival of government members Carrying Kevin up the stairs on their backs.