I am forced to confront a truth, nothing can save this government.
Unless it is Tony Abbott.
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/small-target-big-letdown-20120427-1xqco.html
This link may be the voice of middle Australia.
Blind support for any side is of no help.
Even worse blind support for my side, the ALP, under standing its policy's are better, not the threat some say, will change nothing.
Knowing the very rich, Australian mining billionaires, and media have bought in to media,to increase the value of their opinions is of little use.
This country, never in my lifetime, never in its,has been led by two leaders less loved or liked.
Just consider this.
If one side removes its leader, and the other sides does not,it will see the change bring even fixed voters, not me, to that side.
Our leaders resemble two school yard combatants more than politicians.

Belly, you still don't get it do you?

It's 28%

u can only vote for those who are running. Many don't like Abbott until you compare him with the current incompetent, deceitful and conniving mob. He is a Rhodes scholar and he is much more likely to keep his word than Gillard who could not lie straight in bed. Having a female PM was suppose lift the standard of ethics not have democracy flushed down the toilet. How atrocius Emilys club has turned out to be in line with their lack of morals. Labour and its lackies like Getup just can't accept democracy. As for Oakshott and Windsors open and acountable Government (really a disguise for hatred of Abbott and the Nationals) they have proved a disgrace.

Here here runner
Those two are a disgrace, Oakshot knows he won get elected again, and Windsor just wants his full term so he can retire on more of the tax payers handouts.

I agree nothing can save this govt; at least they have policies.
Until we get policies from the coalition no-one knows what they are voting for. I for one would not vote for anyone without policies.
There is the media mentality of Kangaroo court; something exciting to write about, but unaccountable.
The mining industry is overheating and expanding, at the expense of industry.
Lured by the pay packets the miners are willing to pay, is leaving industry without labour.
It only makes cense that the mining sector are expected to pay more tax.

Spin doc first read the link, even you, a fixed and blind to truth contributor surely, can not fail to see I make no claim Labor can win.
Rechtub? stick to butchering! this subject seems more than you can understand.
Runner, well mate it is a symptom, just as men in suits who look over fed and like Joe Hockey can be put in the conservative side.
Those like your self are bound, every time,to slip past the subject,not look at their own side, just deliver the standard blunt, and wrong propaganda.
IF Liberals did not fear Abbott this story from one of our country's best would not have appeared.
On the day he is dumped,your victory is assured.
Never,read the link.
Has this country seen , both leaders in negative territory by these margins.
I suspect/believe each hold the other up as fewer trust them both/want them both no other place exists to flee to than the other side.
The subject is not party vs party,sorry spin doc, if you need a hand with comprehension ask, I like helping.
Not about other than us poor voters.
We once faced elections full of hope,we face one soon that puts two very bad very unwanted leaders and asks us to vote for the lessor of two evils.
I do not know who that is!

Belly, Belly, Belly,
You are letting your heart rule your head. It is not just the leadership that is ruining Labor, it is the whole government. Everything introduced has been a stuff up, illconceived and badly managed. Even your mate Shorten has badly gaffed recently, trying to tell us that the miners tax would improve our super. Then made a Billy goat of himself critisising Abbott about when the Reserve meets.

Labor began with a $90 billion bank and now have a $166 billion debt, after spending all the tax revenue as well. The NBN has blown out dramaticly and it is not over yet. More stuff up and blowouts?

They have done it to themselves alone through sheer incompedence, don't blame the media. One thing I thought I could give them credit for was to help the incapacitated, but they put that off for years because of lack of funds. Suddenly they can find $7 billion to give to the IMF to help back up European countries. Aussies are forgotten but they look good internationally. There is no infastructure to show, they have spent like drunken sailors on leave.

The wheels have fallen off the global warming wagon and the carbon tax is simply to get more revenue from us. A lot of that is to go to the UN as well.

Don't blame Abbott or the media, look to their own shortcomings. It is not often I agree with runner. 579 needs to remove his rose coloured glasses and face reality.

Lib policies? Promised to get rid of carbon tax and stop the boats. That is a good start and they have a reputation for good fiscal management. Cannot go past that.

Dear Belly,

It's all a matter of judgement, as I said
on another thread.

You might look at opinion polls, and newspapers, and
make the predictable judgement - that the Government
is "in crisis."

OR -

You might look at the many laws the Government has passed
and the policies it has enacted and conclude that it
appears to be executing its stated agenda with
impressive follow through.

I watched Tony Abbott making his speech to the Victorian
Liberals and was horrified that he held Jeff Kennett up
as a good example of a State Premier. Kennett was a
disaster for Victoria. He demolished our infrastructure -
our hospitals, rails, ports and everything else that
he could cut.

Mr Abbott stressed the fact that when the
Coalition gets into power - they will make cuts in
spending - which of course means cuts in our assets -
our standard of living. These public goods are important
for our economic prosperity.

As one financial expert pointed out:-

"A right leaning government with a sense of economic
responsibility would have a policy sustaining low taxes,
but cutting into welfare, preserving public revenue for
public goods. A left leaning government would allow taxes
to rise to sustain welfare, without compromising on public
goods."

Financial experts confirm that - " Mr Abbott has made
it clear that he would cut taxes, even the carbon tax, and
that he would re-instate middle-class welfare. That can only
mean deep cuts in public goods - including education,
infrastructure and environmental protection
all of which are necessary to sustain our living standards and
to build our economic strength for the days when the
commodity boom ends."

"It's a complete reversal of earlier Liberal Party policy,
which in accordance with its emphasis on self-reliance, was
tight on welfare, but generous on building the nation's
physical and human capital."

Doesn't Mr Abbott and his advisers understand that a welfare
system needs a productive base, and that public assets are
an essential part of that productive base?

Our leaders resemble two school yard combatants more than politicians.
Belly,
Your mob does, not mine. No matter how hard you lot are trying in your desperation to ruin Abbott's image it won't help. You see Labor has mismanaged so badly that even many lefties are running scared of more of the same incompetence. Idealism is ok whilst a Coalition Government puts money in the coffers but now that your outfit has squandered it all & put us into severe debt, people are voting with their back pocket. That's the reality of things.

Keating said in late 2009:

Mr Keating accused Mr Costello of presiding over the growth of Australian debt abroad from $129 billion in 1996, to $705 billion in 2007.
''The Future Fund is all about national savings, yet, during Costello's period as treasurer, national savings were so depleted,'' he said.
''Costello was a policy bum of the first order who squandered 11 years of economic opportunity.''

There is currently 98 billion $ in the futures fund.

ok get the politics out of the way.
Lady's and gentlemen.
The thread is about a link, pointing out the obvious, we are badly lead by both leaders.
How ever, see the refusal to follow that threads directions by? everyone.
Lexi, my Friend, know, it is quite impossible, without leader ship change, or a complete gut busting unmasking of Abbott for Labor to win/not suffer a landslide.
I have seen this before, even the false hope people care about policy's more than following headlines
Banjo, think, did I try to defend ALP? it will be Banjos by the thousands Lexi, who bury us, did so for 23 years. with our help.
So dare I say even the blind I do not like Belly Greens,plan to benefit from Labors implosion, seemingly planned implosion.
Butt his is true, Greens NEVER EVER will get a vote equal to Labors ever.
That dream is only a dream.
They by splitting non Liberal vote,serve only the CONSERVATIVES.
Abbott, as the link, not Belly! says is managing to stay unquestioned, and build mountains out of single grains of sand.
Lexi 597 know Liberals are behind the charges[probably well founded in part] on Slipper.
Yet such is the focus on Labor, bought and paid for media slants,it will never be uncovered.
ABC is as bad in my view as almost any.
So get in to each other abuse me.
But if you see the link is any one going to comment about that and thanks for the hugely funny thought Abbott will rule for ten years, he is still nothing more than the mad monk in sheep's clothing fitted by media and rich power brokers.
Back to intended debate, Australia you can do better than these two leaders!

The link highlights two landslide victory's for Liberals and massive majority's.
It judges QLD a bit harshly too early, give them time they after all won a mandate.
See however the start to dismantling new power energy projects.
NSW got a mention, while I like ALP new directions most will know I talked of that landslide for 12 months before.
NO ONE should forget how bad we had become.
So while unhappy with some changes the failures of my party are as much responsible as big Barry,I am not ready to get stuck into him yet.
It can not, surely be said the links thoughts, both leaders are unloved is wrong?
Did we all see in the link questions about both sides?
Did we see that as of yet Tony Abbott has not focused on policy's, he need not do so.
Labor keeps presenting him with HSU Slipper and while the bloke wastes the air he breaths knifing Wilkie was a typical Gillard act, she has less know how than my two dogs.
My complaints are in the interests of my party.
My concerns about these 4th rate leaders come in the interests of AUSTRALIA.
A third landslide took place Big Mal before he lost his trousers won both houses.
Without policy's he frittered his power away and today stands unwanted by his party.

Belly find a new Party.The Coalition are not much better.There are so many people like you who are dis-affected,there is a real need for a new and honest party.

Dear Belly,

I'm not as critical of the PM as you are. To me
she's done extremely well in such a toxic environment
as she's had to deal with. I doubt if anyone could have
done any better. Male or female. Take the current fuss
over the "slipper" case as an example.

A widespread fallacy has been advanced that the Government
"installed" Mr Slipper. Whereas in fact - Mr Slipper was
already the deputy speaker and was elected by the floor
of the House, including by Labor, three Independents, and
a Green. He occupies a position constitutionally and
administratively separate from the executive.

But hey, why worry about constitutional niceties when there's
the possibility of blood on the floor.

To me the current Government is governing constitutionally,
supported by a majority of the representatives voted in
by the Australian people and the Speaker has so far not
been found guilty of anything.

Mr Abbott when asked did he know of any Liberal Party
involvement in the Slipper case?

Mr Abbott's reply was:

"I have no specific knowledge."

The weasel word being "specific."

Belly,
Perhaps i should have been more direct in my first post.

I read Hartcher's commentary early this morning and I think he is wrong, as you and Labor is in putting so much emphasis on the leader. You are looking for a messiah when you want a good solid captain of a team. Many film/pop stars are overnight sensations but fade quickly when their abilities, or lack of, are exposed. No football captain can claim he won the premiership on his own.

I want a government that steadies the ship and spends within our means. I do not want new, half baked ideas each week that are illconceived and pander to the Greens. The green schemes must be first to go.

As for the media, which you keep on about, I recall almost universal praise for Gillard when she appointed Slipper as speaker. How politically astute she was to get the jump on the Libs and she could tell Wilkie to 'go jump' for his pokie reform. It is now just another embarrassment for the government. Do you expect the media to praise Labor when there is nothing to praise them for? The stuff ups started when Rudd increased the immigration rate and welcomed the illegal boat people and has continued ever since.

I have never made any bones about it, I think this government is the worst since Federation and I want to see them gone ASAP. The only other choice we have is the Libs, whoever their leader.

So the longer Labor continues to worry about the leader and not the rest of the team, the more it suits me and i think thousands like me.

not much to the topic
i guess i want simply a govt that rules

within the egsisting rules..not feels it needs to bring in destractions/policy/new taxes/lurks for the lobbiests

you know simple governance..that isnt about revenue raising
or govt adgendas..or selling stuff..a public service
not a nanny

im sick of the baby kissing..and julia only talking to kids
sure it worked for rudd..but he loved kids enough to have his own

julias proxy..is as fake as her narrow hip cut jacketts
she is cutting to wide a strip..using too broad a brush
its not her vision or lack of it..its that she thinks..its her duty to reform..anything she wants

her mark in history..will only be cause of her sex
not her..150 new govt laws/taxes/levies/3000 school halls

a failing education system
and silver foils..pink bats..and bleach
bottle scull cap[helmutt hair]..no chin..to much testosterone[too obsessive re toney..[cant open her mouth without blaming him[for her missgovernances]

Hobsons choice or no choice?

Yeah, exactly Belly.

Two peas in a pod. One identity; the Liblabs, with the one political direction.

No leader can get either part out of the quagmire. No leader can regain any sort of respect from the Australian populace for their politicians. No leader can actually make their party appealing enough for the voters to support.

Come election time, the voters will yet again be voting for the party they think is the slightly lesser evil of two highly undesirable choices of government.

This seething resentment is very bad news. It is just going to get worse and worse until there is major civil unrest….

Unless…..

Unless we get a government that embraces sustainability, makes itself independent of big business influence, lowers immigration to net zero, concentrates on per-capita economic growth instead of gross national product, promotes renewable energy and value-added industries with a vengeance, and bloody well starts doing what a government is supposed to do – look after the quality of life of its citizens, now and into the distant future!!

It’s not the leaders, it’s the policies, or I should say; the whole political direction, that is the problem.

I am amazed truly, comments plainly are unable to leave personal dislike out of it.
And Banjo, mate, yes thats how I think, you have built a fort around your views and stopped considering others.
As you have Lexi.
Gillard is gone, she never again ever, can get near being popular.
If , remember not a charge, today evidence came out Abbott was the Godwin Gretch behind Slippers exposure, Gillard would not be come wanted.
That concept may well be true,facts seem to point to over ten years of poor behavior known by the party that endorsed him.
IF one leader fell under a bus, and was replaced.
Who can not see the other side, WOULD BE INSANE NOT TO REPLACE THEIR STRAW MAN/WOMAN?
This is the question, nothing else, are these two up to it?
Are we well lead.
I again predict, Gillard will go soon, Abbott will follow.
Why, both party's must best serve their followers.
I am not predicting a Labor victory.

579, taxing the miners is not the answer, taxing their payrolls (a wage levy) and using this levy to subsidize non mining businesses wages is worth considering.

The current mining tax is simply a money grab to replace some of the wasted billions that this government has wasted.

Nothing in this tax will help non minimg businesses to survive, as the consumer has the advantage of simply opting to go without.

There are two areas of distress caused by miners that need serious attention.

Non mining wages and rents.

Many small businesses simply can't afford staff anymore, or, the staff they have are on loan, until they find a mining job.

Many long term locals at mining towns can no longer afford their rents.

These are people, who in many cases, have grown up in these towns.

Morinbar in QLD is a prime example, where the average rent is now about $3000 per week.

Miles or Chincilla in QLD, many rents have gone from $100 per week, up to $2000 per week.

That is not fair, what's more, the mining tax won't help this situation.

Non mining wages and rent.
Mining tax won't help this.
It remains to be seen what the mining tax will help or not, but it is a good start to tax the mining industry further.
Non mining wages, are you saying the wages are to low.
Then you say business can't afford the wages.
As far as rent goes for locals, this should be provided for by the company's that caused these gigantic rent hikes.
A mining industry that is overheated and CN wants to take the brakes off. You will end up with a state without small business, Remember mining can fold over-night.

Belly,
In all seriousness I think you're desperately trying to hold onto something that hasn't been there since 1972. The Liberals aren't all that much away from going down the same track but at this stage they still offer a ray of hope whereas labor offers nothing & takes all.
What we have to realise is that the problem isn't Labor or liberal, it's us. We expect too much for too little. There are way too many hangers on in our society. The individuals' right lobby has seen to that. I keep saying & I KNOW I'm right that we need a National Service to get society back on track. Anyone who is against National Service is against a functioning society.
i.e. a traitor.

Indi, no doubt you’ve stated this previously on OLO, but could you please explain what you envisage with national service and why you think it is so critical to a properly functioning society?

When Abbott was elected as leader of the coalition many in Labor were delighted as he was considered an easy target, and with Labor on a 2pp of 55% it looked as though the next election was assured, and KRudd felt that there was no need to go for a DD election. A few months later, Labor's 2pp was in toilet, and Rudd was gone. Gillard had run a disastrous election campaign and had to sell out the voters to maintain power.

Abbott as a Rhodes scholar is a far more complex person than one dimensional figure that Getup and the unions have tried to paint him as. He has resisted the obvious challenge to fight this on character, and has simply focused on Labor's performance against their promises, and kept his head down.

The result is that Labor's attacks are unanswered and echo like a hollow vessel, and the focus does not even flicker from Labor's death throes.

The real Abbott will only appear once he assumes the mantle of PM, and once again, I suspect he will surprise everyone.

SM,

"The real Abbott will only appear once he assumes the mantle of PM, and once again, I suspect he will surprise everyone."

It would be uplifting to think there is a wise and measured countenance lurking somewhere beneath what appears to be a slightly vacuous exterior. I'm wondering, however, why, if someone in Abbott's position possesses such attributes, they would seek to hide their light under a bushel?

I'm glad his potential is obvious to you, SM, because he does rather a splendid job of concealing it from me.

Haaaa hahaha!

Abbott is doing a superb job at concealing his true nature!

Yeah?

No. He is showing his true nature very clearly.

Perhaps Abbott’s biggest appeal is that he presents a realistic image of himself….unlike Rudd, who increased immigration and talked up a big Australia amongst other things which he hadn’t even mentioned before he was elected.

We need honest up-front leaders, not ones that will change their spots after they get elected.

Crikey SM, if you think Abbott will show his true nature after he is elected, then I’d consider that to be a huge reason NOT to vote for him!

579, what I am saying about wages, is that business can't afford to keep staff, as the mining wages and conditions on offer, are such, that normal businesses, this who don't directly service that industry, simp,y can't compete on wages.

The solution in my view, is to tax the payrolls of mining companies, or staff providers, then use this tax (levy) to prop up those workers wages in non mining employment, therefore meaning non mining business will stand a better chance of retaing staff, without the burden of increased costs.

After all, the miners have created this problem of wage disparity, so it is only fair they fix the problem.

Now I am not suggesting that non mining staff get the same money, but there has to be a happy medium, where family people especially, can choose the away from home, mining career, or, the say at home normal job.

A present example, a deisel mechanic (non mining) earns around $28 per hour, whereas the same mechanic in mining is on more like $80 per hour. The difference is huge.

Remember, in most cases, miners have not trained their staff, they have poached them.

At present, the lure of the mining job is to strong and in some cases is placing preasure on many young relationships.

Now as for rents, it's already the companies that are causing the problem.

If a town, like Miles, has 150 rental properties, then, along comes the miners, who pay massive rents for say 50 of those, up goes the rent on the remaining houses, due to supply V demand.

I say again, these issues have been caused by the miners, simp,y taxing them a 'super Tax' won't make rents cheaper, of the keeping of staff affordable.

A levy would do both.

Poirot,

Pretty much the way Juliar concealed her true nature before the elections?

Butch Prop up non mining by bolging their pockets, will work, to well.
You will have to be prepared to do that for the whole of AU that is not currently in the mining employ.
I would say that is not an option, when mining subsides, through loss of contract or other reasons, you then have to take that money back. In the mean time prices have risen to reflect the new found wealth, of their customers.
The miners are to blame for the labour shortages, and by releasing the brakes, it can only get worse. We have to tighten the brakes to cause the mining to slow down.

...Thompson epitomises the rot and disconnected elitism practiced by mainstream political parties. In the case of Thompson, the arrogant ride to the top was assisted by entrenched elitism, practiced in tandem with ALP practice in the union movement universally. Thompson continues to “Suck” along for personal benefit, now sitting comfortably in the cross benches.

...This move is simply a game of “Musical Chairs” and a total snub to the electorate; another arrogant and shifty manoeuvre by Gillard to save “Herself”; not connected to honesty in any way!

...What do Bob Katter and Pauline Hanson say!

I am forced to give up trying to keep the discussion about the value of both leaders.
It is clear I am alone in that.
I suspect the link I used was written by some one who can read public opinion.
I must stay away from the strange National services post, by request of its poster, that I, as a result of not agreeing with him, ignore his future posts.
Today, for me, is evidence enough, we are extremely poorly led, on both sides.
Gillard forced not acting on principle, did what she should have done 4 months ago in relation to Thomson.
And a week ago in relation to Slipper.
No less painful, embarrassing and just plain awful have been Abbott's actions.
Both are grubs.
Abbott intent on being PM is using what his own party hid, for more than a decade,to flog Labor.
He BOLDLY DEMANDS all past practice be ignored, and Thomson have his right to vote taken away!
I wish the ALP to convene an extraordinary National conference.
To review our failures in QLD/NSW/ and the seeming surrender in Federal Parliament.
Second item on the agenda, no lies, are we fair dinkum about reform?
Are such as this HSU bloke, the whole union, to gain easy entry in to Canberra , are unions to continue to have half the votes?
Are we afraid of letting new clean talent get first option?
Will my party stop being a reward for union failures.
Bill Shorten step up mate, be assured you will get great support if you put your hand up to help our party now.
Julie, still have a few links, can get you and Tony instant starts in good jobs.
Have to teach you both what side of the sign is stop what is go.

Ludwig,
If you need to ask then no explanation will suffice.

Thanks Indi.

That's um.... extremely helpful.

So... I have absolutely no idea of what you are on about with national service or why on earth you won't simply outline what you mean.

Most perplexing indeed.

Ludwig,
Discipline, Sense of responsibility, Sense of belonging are some of the positives that National Service instills. i.e. a good way of weeding out the me,me the country owes me a living mentality. Very similar to the original Labor doctrine.

OK, now I've got the basic idea at least.

Thanks Indi.

Yes I get it too we put Gillard and Abbott in the Nashos and send them to?
No idea how we got so far from both the thread and reality.
But if we get them in to uniform why not send them to say France? to observe what happens in country's divided.

What National Service basically achieves is putting young people either with or without direction onto the path of togetherness.
Whitlam abolished National Service because of conscription & the Vietnam fiasco. It was his election promise that got him in & we're paying for it now.
We do not need military National Service as such because for that we have our armed forces. What we need is a non-military national Service. It would immediately solve unemployment, homelessness, lack of discipline, crime would fall dramatically, young people learn skills both psychological & practical in readiness to enter the workforce. The list of benefits is long. The cost ? I'd think way less then what the present fiasco costs us plus the positive long-term improvement in the mentality of our society. It's a win/win situation.

Yes I could go along with that sort of national service. But not before we get a government that can properly manage it and really achieve some of things that are desperately in need of doing from it rather than just concentrating on discipline and commitment.

You’d also have to be mindful of the possible backlash, if lots of people refused to do it or if the majority of the populace wouldn’t vote a government back in that introduced it.

You’d no doubt also get some people who would think that if they were compelled to do national service, the country would then definitely owe them a living.

All in all, not as easy or as beneficial as it sounds.

My problem is that I just cannot see why so many people seem to hate Tony Abbott.
What has he done that is so dreadful ?

Is it because he is not so handsome, has a slight speach impediment and big ears ?
He certainly does not speak as well as say Malcolm Turnbull and into
the bargain he rides a bike and walks with a waddle !

I would have thought we would have had enough of charismatic show ponies.

Dear Bazz,

We can no longer afford to buy new TVs.
Every time Mr Abbott appears on the screen -
my husband picks up the shotgun. ;-)

Can some one show me the link to National service and this threads subject?
We all divert threads but this is far more than that.
Bazz? now be fair dinkum, do you hate Gillard?
Is she hated by any one?
So what is the difference?
Before his leadership how much did you know about Abbott, do you know as a result of his blocking a drug a young couple faced prison for importing it.
About his health cuts.
Do you have the intestinal fortitude to read anti Abbott pages and his own book.
What will you do after his victory, he approaches one, with very few policy's he can deliver or intends to.
What do we make of us? Australians who fear the bloke? are we mad? traitors, are we just maybe right to say this country needs better than both.
What the polls, soon yellow backed ALP members will have no choice but to dump Gillard.
Now think.
Any problems with me saying that? then why are we haters for targeting Abbott?
Do I need a spell? a month in the paddock? I am increasingly frustrated at the intrusion of *Individual* with unrelated or insulting posts in threads.
Are our rules for real? diversion is killing this one.

belly/quote..""What will you do..after his victory,""

attack him for his broken promises
much like i did to howard/rudd/guilelard

i hate..broken promises
and backdoor tax

[victry]..""one,..with very few policy's
he can deliver..or intends to.""

like most people..they take their promises seriously
[untill like guiltlard...they break them]...its just not the aussie way[i will protest liars..till my last day.

""What do we make of us?..Australians who fear the bloke?..are we mad?..traitors,...""

belly..the bible says fear no evil
the guy isnt evil..but i feel will try to make his word his bond
[so expect the double disolution..even if the promise is only as good as fibre to the node..or no carbon tax with any govt i lead[bahh]

""are we just maybe..right to say
this country needs better than both.""

no belly..THEY BOTH*..
they are better..than we deserve
what we dont deserve is the backroom deals..anon lobby

""What the polls,""

they reveal todays opinion
lest we forget the qld/nsw/vic polling

""soon yellow backed ALP members
will have no choice but to dump Gillard.""

the problem..isnt..'the leader'..its them faceless hacks
[think like clive palmer..but ex union/or ex adviser

""Now think.
Any problems with me saying that?
then why are we haters..for targeting Abbott?""

its picking on the weak
not the ones in power...i hate lies..that got them into power

with abbot..[or m rabbit...
as they so cleverly make his name sound
is a looser..thats why he is opposing..thats what oppositions do

unlike the cozey kim beastly lost years
when he took a unified ticket..with the liberatie
ie when we had no opposition..![it was sickening]

""Do I need a spell?""

mate i notice as i age
its use it or loose it
[dont stop doing..that you lived your life for..[helping others]

""Are our rules for real?""

yes belly..but mate,.individual has his own opinions
[lest we forget times past]..we all get wiser with age ..AND valid FACT'S*

""diversion is killing this one"".
i disagree..ol china plate..*

Lexi,

Your complaint is similar with Newscorp. If you don't like the news, it must be the fault of the carrier. If reality is so troubling, stick to New Matilda with their disaffected greenie authors who are guaranteed to tell you what you want to hear.

Ahhh, Lexi, you do have a sense of humour after all !

Belly, no I don't hate Julia, certainly not the way many hate Tony.
Julia is a rather sad case, she has done women in politics a lot of harm.
It is probably a common problem where someone who seems to be competent
is not detected by those around them to lack either common sense or
the ability to manage multiple people around them.

What has he done that is so dreadful ?
Bazz,
That's what I'd like to know too. His antagonists don't know it either otherwise these threads would be overflowing with it. It's a mentality thing, not smart enough to see but smart enough to be a nuisance.
I think with the benefit of a few months of National Service even they'd gradually start to see reality. We really have to stop this trend of the non-thinking to grow in such numbers that they can hijack what little democracy there is.

Dear Bazz,

Thank You for taking my earlier post about Mr Abbott
in the way that it was meant.

I'm glad that you've got a sense of humour as well.

Take care.

Don't worry Australia, Big Clive is coming to save you. The only one who should be worried is the Mad Monk, Clive wants his job, or should I say Jules job or Kev's job. Anyway, he wants the top job.
One thing about Big Clive is, he's a 'man of the people'
Given half a chance and Big Clive will fix everything, starting with the budget surplus. I wonder how PM/Treasure Palmer would achieve that surplus. Easy, slash mining tax to zero. after all billionaire miners are the backbone of the nation and shouldn't pay tax, besides, they are doing it tough. I say, crack down on those 'Dole Bludgers' whip them back into work. They could work for the dole down one of Clive's mines.
Seems poor old Clive suffered from potentially lethal sleep apnoea and was given only months to live, how many months ago was that. Hope he doesn't doze off while steering his new toy, a replica of the Titanic, could hit an iceberg. But then again he could pretend he is Captain Smith and go down with his ship, as the capitalist like to say, a win win situation.

<< Can some one show me the link to National service and this threads subject?
We all divert threads but this is far more than that. >>

Not a diversion Belly. I’d say it is well within the subject at hand. We need a broad approach to these things. We need to not just concentrate on the personalities of leaders but to explore ways of getting one or both parties to actually pick up their act and give us a meaningful choice to vote for....and one that will actually be good for the country.

As I’ve said before; it’s not the leaders, it’s the policies that count!

Ludwig good morning.
It is my view that our current state of politics in this country, and our two leaders are the issue.
I can not find a time in my memory that BOTH sides had been so poorly led.
Policy's? right now good policy's mixed with stupid ones bring little real attention.
So fixed are both sides, rightly in my view, on the faults of the other.
Right now, Abbott as always has been the case, is beatable, but not by Gillard ever.
We, voters party's every one,seem content to say they will not vote for those others, BUT THEY WILL.
Gillard said yesterday she will lead to the cliff fall, sorry lemming march, gee election.
IF either of these two win an election my country will suffer.
I disagree Ludwig, the National service thing, not one you introduced, and the sins of the ALP 1972 TO 1975, 40 years ago! is a weapon often used.
I refrain forever from mentioning it again.
We deserve far better will not get it until one side sees from outside the house what is taking place inside.
Clan loyalty that hides this dysfunction on both sides betrays us all.

G'day Belly, Haven't had a shot for a while but here it comes.

The subject, Bill(the dill)Shorten. A couple of months ago you were singing his praises as a future ALP leader and PM (that will be the day). What a sycophant, there he was caught out agreeing with Gillard and he hadn't even heard what she had said. After all when it comes to Thomson and Slipper Gillard and I presume Shorten, have had more positions than you would find in the 'Kamasutra'. Great leadership material "Even though I haven't got a clue what the PM said I totally agree with what ever she said, she's always right, and..er..rrr. um..I love dat girl" What a tossa. Can I have you view of good old Bill now.

sins of the ALP 1972 TO 1975, 40 years ago! is a weapon often used.
Belly,
heavily wrong statement again. They weren't sins of 40 years ago & they're not a weapon.
It was & is INCOMPETENCE & that is a fact & not a weapon.
You're nastily critical of Abbott who is not even in power but you don't denounce the ruining of the country by the ALP. Yes you openly declare your displeasure with Gillard but you still rather denounce those who aren't as yet proven instead of denouncing the proven failures of Labor.
When you admit that the ALP is a failure you might get some respect from many here.

Paul love that hidden concern you have about an ALP revival.
Get a grin too at you green plate in hand standing out side the kitchen window waiting in case crumbs from Labors troubles fall on it.
Your best and only chance of progressing.
Bill Shorten does not need ME to defend him.
Proud to have known him.
He has an ego as big as Sydney Harbor Bridge and ability 4 times that big.
He like every politician,is watching the media feed on our troubles and made very sure he did not feed them.
I think he is ready to become the man we thought, I think, Rudd was.
You wait in vain for those crumbs but will not go hungry big humble pie on the way.
No further interaction as per your request Indy!

Howard at least thinks Labor will have a choice.
He says Rudd will return before the election,[why are no polls asking us about him]
My eternal problem man Joel Fitzgibbon, is he growing up? or acting in his own interests?
Has told the vacant spot filling the Prime Ministers chair Gillard he no longer supports her!
Out standing Joel! do you still think Australia does not need unions?
Fingers crossed Parliament sits next week love to see early arrival of government members Carrying Kevin up the stairs on their backs.