Lexi/csteele, yes we hear you loud and clear. The socialization of science has created a public debate on a highly divisive and contentious debate. Impossible though it may be to determine even which scientists are qualified, we have the even more impossible task of trying to determine which members of the public are qualified.

The real issue is of course that mostly we, the public, have no qualifications but we have been given lots of opinion. Some of us chose to “believe” such opinions, adopt them as gospel and promote them. This is called unconscious incompetence. It is the unconscious incompetence of the believers that sustains a phenomenon that will do incalculable harm to future generations and yet the believers dress this up as “meritorious”.

C.P. Snow had much to say on this in his Rede lecture in 1959. Sadly he has been proven correct by people such as yourselves; incredibly you just don’t get it but you do believe.

Dear Shadow Minister,

My apologies. The Durban conference was only implicit in my post and I should have been explicit. It was a 'fourth tier' type of governance and as such yet another step removed from the wishes of the people.

As to the GDP of the three Canadian provinces compared to Australia the fact appears to lie somewhere between the two of us it would seem, although I am happy to examine any data you might have.

As accuracy is important in this debate, even on something this inconsequential I hope you will forgive a quick explanation on my figures.

Not wanting to make the same mistake with Canadian Dollars I have gone to http://databank.worldbank.org , selected 'World Development Indicators and Global Development Finance' then under variables chose Canada and Australia, under series picked 'GDP (current $US) and under time picked 2008 as this was when the carbon tax was brought in.

The figures returned were;

Australia - $1,039,415,095,377
Canada - $1,499,107,812,266

The link;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Canadian_provinces_and_territories_by_gross_domestic_product

shows that in 2009 the share of the Canadian GDP of the three provinces mentioned was 48.58% giving a figure of $728,266,575,168. That is around 70% of Australia's GDP.

Therefore from the data I am happy to acknowledge they are indeed not equivalent but nor are they 'less than half'. Willing to be convinced otherwise.

Dear Lexi,

I've just flung a little popcorn from the cheap seats at an increasingly pugnacious contributor. You have done all the heavy lifting so hats off to you.

Dear spindoc,

You said “It is the unconscious incompetence of the believers that sustains a phenomenon that will do incalculable harm to future generations and yet the believers dress this up as “meritorious”.”

I couldn't agree more.

Csteele,

I carelessly dropped a state in my calcs, so it isn't less than half, but still a long way from equal.

I'm glad you are not one of those trying to kid themselves that Durban was a breakthrough.