In yesterdays AFR, Greg Hunter summed up the outcome of the Durban confab very well:

"It is not a treaty, It is not even agreement for a treaty. It is an agreement for possible negotiation of an agreement for 2020"

Which is a bit of a pity, because treasury modelling for the Gillard carbon tax assumed that by 2015-16 things would all be sown up and the world would have a flexible price for carbon of $29.00 tonne.

And in today's AFR, we learn that Canada --a country with an export base which more closely resembles Oz than most -- has declared it will not renew Kyoto.

Under Gillard's climate policy Oz is getting more and more adept at playing the role of a shag on the rock.

Dear Lexi, I rest my case.

Pity about your kids and your grandkids. Anyway, you can always blame the CSIRO.

Congratultions, absolution comes cheap!

Dear Lexi,

In my experience behind every curmudgeon there are generally deep seated fears, and posturing, especially anonymously online, is a panacea that perhaps we should afford them during this festive month.

But then again maybe not.

Dear Spindoc,

I have once or twice on this forum mentioned my Creationist father-in-law. You so remind me of him. It doesn't matter what scientific proof of old earth or evolution I lay in front of him he has an answer often so strident in its delivery that it would convince most people that Moses and a T-Rex were on speaking terms.

However all the brow beating, or in this case seeming forum victories in the world doesn't change the facts. None of the increasing levels of CO2 molecules are going to suddenly think 'Damn that Spindoc is right, I don't matter!' and suddenly stop warming the planet.

Dear Shadow Minister,

I do find it interesting that the closer a tier of government is to the people the more active they tend to be in responding to the concerns of those same people about global warming and sustainable living.

In my state of Victoria there are some incredibly active councils doing some really good work on the issue. State governments perhaps less so but still far better than the Federal Government in many respects, especially with concrete on the ground mitigation initiatives.

The US and Canada are good examples, California in 2006 passed AB-32 requiring the state to reduce its emissions and last year the state of Maryland imposed a carbon tax. It should be noted that California has twice the GDP of Australia, perhaps it is there we should be making our comparisons.

Or indeed Canada. The provinces of Quebec and Alberta introduced carbon taxes in 2007 and British Columbia followed suit a year later. Their GDP is equivalent to Australia's.

So why the differences in tiers? Perhaps the more divorced a level is from the people the more susceptible they become to undue influence from large corporations, some of the biggest tending to be those in the energy industry.

Csteele,

Firstly since the thread was about the outcomes of the Durban conference, and you have not mentioned any thing from this, I assume that you acknowledge its failure.

Secondly your comment:"The provinces of Quebec and Alberta introduced carbon taxes in 2007 and British Columbia followed suit a year later. Their GDP is equivalent to Australia's." Is incorrect their combined GDP is less than half of Australia's. Even if all of the carbon prices go ahead (most at prices way below that of Australia), they still cover less than 20% of the world's emissions, and none of the large growing emitters.

A review of the EU cap and trade scheme has indicated that the reduction of emissions was almost entirely due to the GFC. The achievements in emission reductions in all these countries over the past 5 years compensated for a couple of months growth in China alone.

valid points shadow man
the parties agree...to agree on an agreement
on the bnever never..maybe in 2020,..the new blokes..will have facts that arnt pure spion and bile

[blame/shame/for personal gain]

20/20!

its a easy kick into touch
knowing there can be no scrum till 2015
and no hooker in the scrum before 2020

yet the deaf remain deaf
the blind remain blind

they are 20/20
which only in their eyes means perfect sight

but in this case proves we were right

but lets recall this spin doc
re quote of our ol mate belly

who even to lost theories
remains true blue

i so love you good belly
but loyalty..your too darn loyal

is it us deaf blind...or those
who arnt loyal to you

"""Anyway,..from inside the bubble
where we don’t “see” anything, we don’t “hear” anything and we won’t “say” anything until 2020,...!

we really do feel like the three wise monkeys.

Actually, not so much “wise”
as events keep proving us wrong,
but we definitely feel like monkeys.

(You know as in “useful idiots”}"""

no as mushrooms
[kept in the dark and fed only on bull muck][spin]
teqnocratic spin...authoritive peer pervieuw..

and grece/italy just got teqnocrats
subverting democratic process..democratic elected leaders..[gone]

lol

mate listen to bbc..BEFORE you read ya papers
its free on news radio...and on public broadcasting every moring]

then read your papers
your not deaf nor blind..nor un read
so dont take anything personally..your a good man...just too loyal

""Belly,this is so,
you know really cool and well you know
we “just don’t get” it but hey, this is so fun yeh""

lets keep it fun
we try to educate you
you trying to re educate us

but mate..20/20...
that says it all!*

Dear Spindoc,

Look, I fully understand where you're coming from and how
emotive this issue is for you. You're not alone, and I
respect your opinion (but not your facts)
however, as CSteele has pointed out this
does not change what's happening.

As for my blaming CSIRO - on the contrary, I value the
organisation greatly - as well as Australia's top scientists.
Having worked with some of them for quite a few years.

Dear CSteele,

You always manage to come in at just the right time.
Thank You. Much valued and appreciated!