Lexi 579, some of our detractors know little about politics.
Some would, hard as it is to understand, not know Gillard is preferred Prime Minister by 5 percentage points.
We of the left of center should not however over look the party's polling.
Abbott, now more than ever in his long and colorful career, has more enemy's in his own camp than Friends.
He will go.
But that alone destroys Labors chances, unless Gillard gos too.
We have to face it, she has lost too many forever, men mostly to ever come back.
A weak Labor at the next election helps the greens, and ensures Liberals win a landslide.
Many crafted over stated weapons have been used against Labor.
But two things threaten our return to government, Rudd's knifing.
And Abbott's shrewed but shrew like manipulating the refugee problem.
A third, considered thought please my green Friends, not the usual back turning breath holding foot stamping stuff.
Labor is considered to be too close to the greens.
We must confront this, greens are a coalition of former Labor extreme left.
Extreme Socialist party's.
And as a street light catches moths seeking the moon, young caring folk.
Who do not yet know they in fact will keep Conservatives in power by fracturing Labors vote.
It is painful but true, forever for every voter the greens can be assured 3 dislike them forever.

What the pro Labor posters here must accept is that these stories all come from pro Labor papers, and the ABC news if you care to look.

This is not something dreamt up by the opposition to throw mud. Rudd said all this himself at a book launch. Although Labor may well be in need of reform, what is uncredulous is who the suggestions come from. It is laughable to come from Rudd, who has a history of spin and using the factions. I don't think anyone could honestly believe that Rudd has suddenly 'seen the light' and wants to go further than what John Faulkner recomends. Have a look at his record and why he lost the public support.

I also think Labor is in need of reform as they have spent so much effort in putting up and taking advice from academics and lawyers and electing show ponies like McKew and Garrett. There is a need to get grass roots participation. A bit of common sense instead of grand ideas.

There has been a lot of good labor men in the past, but this Government, first under Rudd and then Gillard, is the worst we have ever been saddled with. They have put spin on everything mainly to try and hide their ineptitude. Even today there is reports of the NBN blowing out to $50 Billion and the take up by the public is minor.
In the next 18 months I see the list of stuff ups growing and still no resolution of the border security issue. Is there any one thing that has been managed well?

I agree that if the Libs had a more charismatic leader we would not now be putting up with Gillard, but be that as it is, the Libs don,t have to change to win the next election

Dear Banjo,

Politics is a controversial subject and I guess it's
one that will be viewed according to one's beliefs,
expectations, and experiences. To me policies that make
sense for me and my family is what tends to influence
my vote and for that reason alone I could not support
Mr Abbott and his colleagues. To me they have been
bought and paid for by vested interests. It's all very
well to tell people how much they're able to save when
they're in office - but in order to do that - the cuts
that they make are usually horrendous and it takes years
to repair the damage that they've done. Anyway -
much as I understand your point of view - I happen to
disagree with it.

Dear Belly,

Thanks for sharing your views.
You, as always have given me much to think about.

Banjo, no offense,but clearly I am in debate with someone who is not as well informed as he thinks.
I recommend a story in this mornings Sydney morning Herald.
It is about an on going fight between two branches and two factions of the Liberal party.
Hard right vs center unity, right.
Such a battle has been taking place within that party National, for decades.
The branch stacking described is as in of both party's.
Banjo,in your willingness to flog the ALP on any issue, any time.
You launched this thread.
Your terms of addressing Labor supporters are extreme, but BLIND TOO.
Consider flogging us with real issues, not miss interpretation of a much needed reform , for my party and yours.
Lexi, thanks, no joy for me here, remember I said if you fall in the street it will be a Christian who picks you up.
Well in fact many,at least half, Greens members are from our best.
We think in terms of unwashed, they exist, but are few and they are leaches.
Why chaining your self to a coal loader is not terrorism concerns me.
Foolish fun? dragging the whole down more like it.
But one in two is a Labor refugee,and most of those left truly, but wrongly, think Australia will change its mind about them.
Labor must reform,get out there and let its supporters have say.
Factions serve only to weaken us.
Unions? my life's love,have no reason to exist other than fairness, some are using the power of members to stop true reform.

Dear Belly,

Every word you say I value greatly.
We are in critical times and Australia requires a
reassessment of the relationship between labour
and capital, a reassessment which takes into account
the politics of industrial democracy, profit, and
job sharing as well as long term planning which allows
for the proper protection and preservation of our
environment. What we don't need is the "kick-the-worker-
today-and-take-the-money-tomorrow" attitude that comes
from the Col War Warriors who are currently at work
around the place. The only way in which the country
can work properly is for management and labour to
co-operate with one another - not condemn one another.

I'm a member of a union, but I've never been put in a
position where I've had to go out on strike. And although
I'm been sometimes frustrated when the union does its
job badly - I support without reservation the right of all
working people to join together so as to preserve and protect
their livelihoods. Of course unions need to be more
sensitive to the realities of modern economic conditions.
Sectarian attitudes and greed serve the cause of labout
badly. Anyway, Thanks for being so honest and open and sharing
your views on this forum. They are appreciated.

Belly,
Again I must inform you that I do not have a party, but recognise that you are particularly sensitive to any critisism of the ALP or any member there of. Now I cannot see any story, you suggested I look at in the SMH. A link may help. I do recall problems in the libs about the time of the Brogden affair. So a inter party stoush would be interesting.

I stated ages ago that, because the present government is the worst we have ever had, I will do all I can to bring about a change and highlighting Rudds hypocricy is an opportunity not to be missed. My list of Labor stuff up continues to grow and will be circulated prior to the next election, just to remind voters.

The present Labor incumbents do not appear to hold the interests of Australia or its citizens in any maner, shape or form. Like NZ, a good clearing of the decks may bring some new blood later.

But for now the hypocricy of Rudd, in advocating reform, is laughable. I notice no one has claimed he is not being hypocritical.

True to form, 'Say whatever sounds good at the time'.