Carl Sagan said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof,
Antonyve,
he was right. I however, am referring to everyday life & the breaking down of our laws. There's nothing extraordinary about that, it's there for anyone who opens their eyes & mind to see. So, no need for extraordinary proof.
When I called the Civil Libertarians & asked them about the rights of victims I was bluntly told "we're not here for them, we're defence lawyers" . Ain't this grand ? Civil Liberties ? Not here for the innocent ? And we're paying for these .......! I do not want my tax dollar to go to them. I want my tax dollar to go to help victims not perpetrators.

individual/quote..""gather signatures on a petition
Antonyve,
That is exactly how particularly ALP pollies try to pull the wool over their constituents' eyes.""

having deliverd many partitions..they dont work
so much effort for so little reward

how laws change is to listen..to what those in power are saying
then to make their case for them..to your own best advantage

do the hard work for them
[they are lazy..need the info to be written for them]

so lobby the man..with facts
with your plan man..getting all that great govt cash..
publish in the m,edia your succes..invite the member to share your glory

petion..mate at best they get deliverd into govt
then ignored

""By Aust Constitutional Law
that kind of petition can & does not have to be taken notice of.""

egsactly right

""There is only one way of presenting a petition""
yep when the media is there..and you got the dirt on our masters
on tape

""people who are against the even slightest discipline"'
dont beat their kids to death

""condemn someone who attempts to prevent""

prevent what
that in your judgment is not permissable to be done?

[who judges where you draw the line?

""juveniles do get away with murder,""

but if your a young punk on the street
yopu KNOW..the cop is watching you

ignoring that blacksuited blackheatred banker
stealing his pension funds

cause he has a lawyer
and all they got is legal aid..to plead guilty..and lie at the mercies if any of the court's..filling our jails with victimless crime

[imprison the poor]..
and give loopholes..to the a holes

""what some rehabilitation for victims for a change?""

excelent point
if govt made fair the damage[to all]
only then..evil cant hurt you...cancel the negative affect

and soon we stop casting blame and slur

peace not pieces

individual,

As a society it would be more productive to examine why so many of our young people have become disconnected from the important anchors that traditionally guide and unite communities. Of course, the easier option is to change the law...but the lock-em-up mentality doesn't seem to have worked in the U.S. which has a huge prison population....usually from the wrong side of the tracks.

ignoring that blacksuited blackheatred banker
stealing his pension funds
uog,
that banker was once a juvenile who's parents weren't allowed to discipline him.
Poirot,
I'm not in favour of prison at all. I'm in favour of making any mongrel who breaks into a home or steals a car etc. spend time in a labour camp working off the damage caused. The more his family contribute towards the restitution the less time he spends in the camp. Just sitting around in prison & learning more refined thieving techniques is definitely not working for the rest of us. No more proof needed. If it's proof you want then proof my suggestion wrong but at least try it first before condemning it.

individual,

All the "proof" in the world is not going to change the fact that if something is rotten in the societal construct then society will suffer from it.
It's not a matter of "them". It's a matter of "us" - how should we live? How do we construct an inclusive society in peacetime? It seems that the only time we all truly pull together is when there is a threat from without.

Why would it surprise you that in an economically fortunate country where prority is given to earning, spending and consuming, where we institutionalise children from the earliest age, where families struggle to even eat together at the same time, that we would have a problem with a disconnected youth.

Yep, chuck the bad eggs in a labour camp. Of course, if their folks can pay more, then they get their sentence commuted...what a grossly inadequate solution to a complex challenge.

As a society it would be more productive to examine why so many of our young people have become disconnected .
Poirot,
that has been done time & time again & time & time again we get the same outcome, lack of discipline ! It may well be that the lock-em up mentality doesn't work in the US but just as the likes of Hasbeen who will confirm that it works very well in Asia. Why, you may well ask. It's because in Asia jails aren't holiday camps as they are here & most western countries. I hate to tell you this but the constant pussy-footing in our system is to our detriment. Get tough on the mongrels & you'll see a reversing of this dreadful trend. Don't blame the youngsters as much as you should blame those who don't accept the practice of discipline.
A mongrel bitch will snap at her pups when they're out of line yet so-called civilised humans think discipline is uncivilised. How uncivilised is that ?