Touche Anthonyve in support of 579.

Isn't rationality a great weapon in debate.

I'm a bit alarmed by the lack of understanding of the mechanism of the carbon tax / ETS in this thread.

It seems Labor, the Greens, economists, the media and educators have some work to do. It's no wonder so many in the general public are against it, they clearly just don't really get how it works.

I am even more alarmed that there are people here, who expect to be taken seriously, still making the "carbon dioxide is not pollution" argument. Talk about conceptual deficit.

Trashy I can't believe that any, even half educated, person could possibly still believe that global warming is a fact & CO2 is a problem.

This of course is excepting the academic community who have shown a remarkable ability to believe anything that will keep the gravy train on the rails, producing that beautiful cash.

Anthonyve,

Your logic is seriously faulty:

"the word 'tax' is usually used to refer to a broadly applied impost.
That's why we don't refer to a speeding fine as a speeding tax." Would thus not apply to the MRRT or mining resources rent tax etc. A speeding fine is paid for breaking a criminal law, which is why it is called a fine.

I understand that you want to redefine the English Language so that Julia Gillard didn't lie, but the English dictionary, and most of the public agree that the carbon tax is a tax.

Secondly, I agree that something needs to be done, but the carbon tax without reciprocal action in the rest of the world is bad policy, as it simply exports the carbon emissions, and the net emission change is zero.

Anthony, there are two real issues I see in all this.

One, a carbon tax, call it what you like, is simply a fee to pollute.

Secondly, despite the fact that we are the highest per capita polluter, this means nothing as th real issue is what percentage of the global contribution we contribute.

Now as for the tax, an ETS would have been a far better option as the polluters would have to first buy credits before they can pollute.

However, once again the most important part of any climate change actions is that it is tackled globally.

Otherwise we are simply being further disadvantaged, as we already suffer from isolation and higher wages than our competitors.

All this government is doing is trying to create ways to plug the extremely large hole they have caused in our bank account. And that waste and mismanagement continues as we speak, with pokie reform and the mining tax.

This government may well go down in history as being the only government that didnt get one thing right.

The carbon tax is a tax, but it is specifically targeted, If you don't pollute you don't pay the tax. it is optional. Gst doesn't give you that option. You are splitting straws saying such things, people are above that level of intelligence., well most. What has that got to do with abbott changing his mind. To him it is crap. In case it is not crap we had better start doing something. Besides we have to get off coal and oil. So pull ya ed in and get with it.