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The Forum > General Discussion > Carbon tax and why Tony Abbot's team changed their minds

Carbon tax and why Tony Abbot's team changed their minds

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Anthony,

Perhaps then you could enlighten us as to what the net global effect on emissions will be if
-the rest of the world does not move, providing a cheaper alternative for our manufactured goods,
-and given that the average cost of carbon in Australia is about 10x that of anywhere else in the world, and still our emissions are projected to grow by 7.5%

Secondly given the GFC, and the results of Spain's adventure with alternative energy subsidised by the consumer that showed that for every job created in clean energy, 4 were lost in traditional industry, how can you claim that this will guarantee a bright future?
Posted by Shadow Minister, Friday, 28 October 2011 10:15:44 AM
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Hi Shadow Minister,
Certainly.
The world will absolutely fall in behind global warming action within the next couple of years. Why? because it's real and cannot be ignored much longer. (I've just posted a new thread reporting that Professor Richard Muller at Berkeley, once a leading Climate sceptic, has now changed his mind after one of the most thorough studies of available data in history).
So, those countries that move early and quickly will have investment going on in alternatives and mitigation strategies, and therefore can become leaders in what will be the biggest industry in the world in coming decades.
Second, the symbolic value of Australia, the world's worst per capita polluter, taking action cannot be underestimated. It will give others, even the dinosaurs in the US Republican primaries pause for thought.
And as for Australia taking a lead, many countries are already way ahead of us. For example, South Korea,led by a conservative government, has set highly aggressive emissions reduction targets and is confident that this will not harm its economy. Indeed, the SK Prime Minister is on record as saying he is confident that it will help the South Korean economy in coming years. And by the way, SK manufacturing workers are more highly paid than Australian workers on average.
The only thing to worry about is how much harder saving the world is becoming the longer we dither.
Cheers,
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au
Posted by Anthonyve, Friday, 28 October 2011 10:46:11 AM
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Anthin, firstly, I am not a climate change denier, never have been, as there is no possible way that what we pump int the air is not causing am, however, had you raised this argument twenty years ago, I would tend to agree, but the truth is that most companies, even individuals are far more aware of the environment and that's a fact that can't be disputed.

I note point a of your post suggests concerted action, boy I wish I had thought of that.

So you have actually shot your own argument in the foot as you yourself acknowledge that we alone can't fix the problem and, this we ar the largest omitted has hair on it as well. It's a bit like a bradbdry, yes he got a gold, but only because everyone else fell over.

It's the amount that is produced that matter, not the number it take to produce the amount.

Finally, you have a very impressive CV, one can only assume your retired very old, or, you skipped prep school and went straight to work! Especially considering the army has age limits in place.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 28 October 2011 11:35:17 AM
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Hi rehctub,
It wasn't my intention to explore my personal background, only to refute your suggeestion that the rest of us are incapable of understanding because we - according to you - have no busines background.
So, here are the details:
Joined the RAAF aged 19 in 1967;
Left the RAAF in 1988 and joined ABB, ran various operations, including in China and Hongkong until I left ABB in 1996 to join the British company Invensys which then owned, inter alia, Fasco worldwide. Ran various business units including in Australia and Thailand until I left the corporate world in 2006.
The point is that this is not about me, I was simply responding to your unfounded assertion.
Now, as to you other questions, if you go back over my and various other responses throughout this thread you will find the answers.
Cheers,
Anthony
http://www.observationpoint.com.au
Posted by Anthonyve, Friday, 28 October 2011 11:49:57 AM
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Anthon, while I respect the fact that you have worked hard and achieved much, I can assure you there is no job in the world that carries the preasure that goes with owning a business these days, because, each day you enter the office you hang your keys on the wall as security.

Now that was fine when the rewards were there, but I am afraid those days are mostly a memory for many.

Compliance and IR laws have seen to that.

I have one year left and I can assure you, that's it for me as despite the fact that I love what I do, I just no longer have the urge to own a business, run one perhaps, but not on one, and that's sad.
Posted by rehctub, Friday, 28 October 2011 7:55:33 PM
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If I had been that lib minister, I would have said;
"When conditions change I change my mind, what do you do ?"

Almost all the comments here are based on the expectation that global
warming will cause us much trouble or they are based on worries that
actions against AGW will drive us to the wall.

Unfortunately what both sides are worrying about is irrelevant.
As you can not help but be aware of is the financial grind that the US,
Europe and Japan have got themselves into means that we are now into
an era of zero growth. China has contracted for or already sucked up
all the energy the US & Europe needed to generate the GDP they needed
to repay their loans and interest.
Extra energy is required to generate GDP each year, but because of the
tightness of the energy market the price has risen so high it has
eaten the GDP they expected.

So forget global warming it is the least of our worries, what you
need to start campaigning on is population, energy and food production.
Posted by Bazz, Saturday, 29 October 2011 3:20:31 PM
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