Belly,
Those two posts are indeed a fact that no-one can deny. We also can't deny that we now have a couple of hundred years of hindsight. We also can't deny that with all the hindsight at our fingertips many people still can't see. The unions made vital contribution until the 1970's when the wheels of the bandwagon really really started to fall off.
We now arrived at a situation where the ALP hierarchy has evolved into an academic, bureaucratic yuppy club which, when looked at closely, is no different from the landlords of old Mother England. Just look at how condescending academics treat the man on the street. As if we had no brains at all because we're not "educated in University" yet it's them who are utterly devoid of common sense & pragmatism. How many academics do you know who can sell their skills & make a living not from taxpayer's money ? 99% of academia is not in private enterprise & for good reason, they have nothing of value to sell. It's them who now make up the bulk of the ALP. As I said before L(ost) A (cacademics) B(lowing) O(thers) R(evenue). Another fact that can't be denied.
Belly I'm fully aware that you only had the good for the worker in mind but I'm afraid you have been hoodwinked by the intellectuals.

*Let us look backward for a time*

That is exactly the problem, Belly. Some old fellas tell me that
we should not buy German or Japanese products, because of what they
did during the war. Should I agree? Or should I learn from the
past and deal with the reality of now?

Yes, Australia inherited all sorts of bad things from Britain.
But the British empire collapsed, remember. All those strikes in
the shipyards did not solve anything, ship building moved to
Korea, where its thriving now.

I've met old people who just can't get over a lover who jilted them.
The world will move on, with or without them.

Greed exists all through society, amongst the rich and poor. See how
many people think that the world owes them a living. All they really
are is greedy, too lazy to get off their own arses.

Some unions need to take note that the Luddites were wrong and
going back to the past is doomed to failure and does not justify
union thuggery today, for all Australians will otherwise lose,
just like happened in the British shipyards.

Win-win outcomes is what its all about these days.

There is a new class divide, between the skilled and unskilled.
If you are a young kid who is great with IT, the world is your
oyster and you'll earn 6 figures. If all you know is how to flip
burgers, don't blame the world for your own failings of not bothering
to educate yourself in some skill.

If unions did something useful it would be to help young people
gain skills in whatever field they have an aptitude for. For that
is what the future is all about. People ignore it at their peril.

Indi,

Fair comment.

It would appear to me to be a trend from both camps with quite a few politicians having no commercial background at all. No proven success in management, just a degree, an over sized ego and the ability to blather on under almost any circumstance.

The truly honest and capable pollies and union reps, obviously a bit thin on the ground these days, must squirm at the machinations of their fellows.

Like Belly I hate injustice but I do respect ability. A bit less of the former and more of the latter could only be a good thing from those who make decisions that impact our lives.

The country does appear to be almost devoid of sound, honest leadership from virtually all quarters.

Take it easy.

SD

I too Belly am a student of history and am fully aware the world over of horrific examples of treatment of working people and their family's by their employers.

I also grasp the concept of enterprise and it's importance in the creation of wealth etc, it is the spreading of the wealth with which I have a problem.

This previously mentioned knowledge of history does colour my viewpoints I guess, but time and time again history shows that given too much power or lack of regulations, business takes too much and gives to little. Therefore regulations are required in order to temper this inherent behaviour in order that a lowest common denominator effect does not occur, with business constantly pushing for reductions in people's working conditions.

The other front that big business is constantly working upon is the abrogation of their responsibility to society as a whole, attempting to reduce or diffuse blame for the environmental consequences of their actions, is the best current example of this.

So therefore and to conclude: people today need representation more than ever and in our case our politicians are no longer providing it. Unions need to understand this new relevance and must act accordingly by first bolstering their memberships even if that requires a divorce from the Labor Party.

As for the other side of Australian politics, they have never represented the people and have always been the willing lapdogs of their big business masters and they dutifully toe the line as we speak from the opposition benches today for a bone in Gov't.

The crossing of Ken Henry over to the board of a major bank, shows you how much of a revolving door the jobs for the boys are, between Gov't and Business in Australia today.

And shows how little input into the outcomes of the future the man on the street will really have, unless people find a collective voice in some way.

I could post one hundred posts and still not feel I had done justice to the thread.
Shaggy Dog I forgot to welcome you, welcome know mate we wander in every thread and it belongs to no man I enjoy all views.
Individual that is the first post I ever saw from you I admire.
History is important it made today what it is.
I CHALLENGE UNIONISM on behalf of those unions exist for in these next posts.
We are served by two political party's, and a sprinkling of others.
Unions have too many representing too few.
Hight membership costs to support too many is an anti union thing born and bred in the union movement.
I think/want/beg for LESS UNIONS, ONE IN FACT.
Why so many branch secretary's? so many offices.
What respect for members funds is shown by not being business like?
One national union.
Many internal sections, for every worker, keep the white collar things posing as unions separate but one voice for workers.
My next statement COMES FROM MY LOVE FOR THE ALP!
UNIONS MUST cut formal ties with our child THE ALP those ties do not deliver to workers the truth is our power is being miss used.
If at election time we unionists, could talk to both sides we may just find conservatives hostility weakened.
The power of 2 million trade unionists was never ours never unions.
Howard won every election bar the last from our members votes.
One union one voice one ideal work in the best interests of our membership.
Examine my next post those who say unions went bad in the 1970s.
You are quite wrong it was the accord ALP/UNIONS that started reforms that give us much today.