*Yabby one thing if we ever meet, you will not tell me I am an old fart,bet on it.*

Thats ok Belly. I'm in my late 50s and consider myself an old
fart. But kid yourself if you please :)

I seem to recall the 200 day airline dispute. You guys were up
against Hawke. The result was a near bankrupting of much of
the Queensland tourism industry, not much else if I can recall
it correctly.

Belly at some point you blokes are going to have to accept that
Qantas won't keep flying planes at a loss. Every route has to pay,
or you close it down if you can't reduce costs or increase revenue.

The old days are gone, Qantas and staff either accept the real world
today, or the whole lot will go broke. Preserving the profitable
bits and closing down the unprofitable bits, as is being suggested
now, makes perfect sense to me, painfull as it might be for some.

Qantas were trading at $1.45 the other day, so the airline is worth
a fraction of its former self. Its time for action. Sell the
Qantas brand to the employees, so they can wear the losses of their
actions, or start benchmarking. What do they pay pilots, engineers
hosties etc, in New York, Paris, London, Amsterdam, and another
20 first world countries? Under what conditions, lurks and perks?

Take an average of those and that is pretty close to what our locals
should be paid.

Thuggery can't win, its as simple as that and right now the Qantas
employees are doing their best to scare away Qantas customers. They
will be the ultimate losers.

Onya Belly,

Been a union member and in later years encouraged my staff to join.

Responsible unionism is a very good thing.

The QANTAS problem goes way beyond unionism. Overpaid CEOs aside QANTAS management has some real hard decisions to make as do its staff. The halcyon days of QANTAS being a Rolls Royce carrier are virtually unsustainable in todays competitive market.

The board would be better flogging the airline and investing the money in the housing market or even a fixed term deposit. The shareholders would get a greater return on their investment.

The whole world is a very different place as compared to the times when I graced the hangars at Mascot.

Take it easy.

SD

Yabby your ignoring the fundamentals when you say workers wouldn't last when exposed to market forces. Of course workers are choosing not to take the risks, choosing not to speculate for the profits side of the business. And the risk should never be the domain of an employee and is the sole domain of the business person.

Business people choose to accept responsibility to speculate for the personal wealth that this speculation can produce. Therefore it is not relevant too suggest that workers should be expected to carry the burden of risk. Business people should factor in certainty for employees into their business model if it is loyalty and excellence they expect, from them.

The Qantas dispute illustrates the confrontational industrial environment left by changes to industrial law by the Howard Gov't. The Union had to call off it's strike today due to having too wait for legal advice from the white collar end of town still returning from it's long lunch last friday.

Qantas endowed with excessive power in a dispute, is encouraged, to lockout their employees and accuse them of the resulting disruption, invent death threats with a unrelated bogus letter and try to link it to the Union, indulge in public misinformation campaigns, pretend publicly to be negotiate when not actually doing so, and finally try to make the Union responsible for the damage to the brand.

Alan Joyce after granting himself a annual increase of 70% can hardly not negotiate with his employees over an increase approximately the rate of inflation over the next 3 years.

Accepting a smaller gain himself or giving back his bonuses may be sufficient to fund the requests of his employees and protect the brand. Maybe he could stop advocating offshore processing for airplanes at presumably cheaper, and possibly less safe locations and guarantee to employ Australians to do this as was traditionally the case, in order that safety be preserved to protect the brand.

cont---

Unions today in Australia are existing in an anti-union industrial environment designed to frustrate any collective attempt to participate in a business. Prior to the attack dogs on the wharves Australia's industrial environment had major improvements and productivity gains through co-operation between unions and business.

It was only at the political and ideological behest of the Howard Gov't that our direction changed, confrontation with unions served it's political purposes. Much in the same formulae way that children overboard did, or weapons of mass destruction etc. Talk up that bad side and claim to be the solution.

Exactly the same thing Tony Abbott does now except he's an even more extreme version with a knack for talking up the down side.

*And the risk should never be the domain of an employee and is the sole domain of the business person.*

I have news for you Thinker 2, about how the world works. One of
the largest groups of shareholders in Australia are actually
grey nomads, who saved all their lives and are now enjoying their
retirement. Hardly business people.

If a company isn't making a profit, there is no company, there
are no jobs. That is the reality of it.

If Qantas employees decide to destroy their own company, so be it.
People will simply fly Singapore Airlines or Emirates. Just ask
Ansett employees about what happened to their jobs.

that a higher credential simply often means higher
earnings because of the value job markets place on it.
Lexi,
Yes of course for jobs which require a comprehension of academic level education. Trouble here is that a society can't function on academic education alone. The whole gist here is that there many trades which benefit nothing whatsoever from academic eduction. It's pragmatism that is needed, pragmatism builds things we want & need. Academia on its own provides nothing. Academic education is merely a step to the pedestal not the top of it.
Just look at the social engineers, they're academic & look where they got us ? Academia is meant to be a tool not a finished product.