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The Forum > General Discussion > Halal Slaughter: What Evidence?

Halal Slaughter: What Evidence?

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<<Hello Grateful & welcome to OLO are you convinced RSPCA are wrong?

http://www.grandin.com/ritual/kosher.slaugh.html

I am sure you will like to read the world accepted methods on many slaughter methods from world wide accepted Halal slaughter abattoirs.
So much more has been done since Germany.
>>

Hi Kerryanne,

Your article was informative. The message i took from it was the barbarity does not reside in whether the animal's throat is cut or it is stunned, but in how the animal is handled leading up to the animal death. The description of the slaughter using the conveyer restrainer was amazing. Even after the animals throat was cut it remained oblivious to its fate.

Islam insists that the manner of slaughter should be that which is least painful to the animal. Islam requires that the slaughtering instrument not be sharpened in front of the animal. Islam also prohibits the slaughtering of one animal in front of another.

You'll find hadith in support of these statements here: http://www.islamawareness.net/Animals/animals3.html

The practices filmed in some Indonesia slaughter houses were counter to the Shariah. You may recall the footage with one cow visibly anxious and shivering.

This is how the Prophet responded to a similar situation:

"Do you intend inflicting death on the animal twice — once by sharpening the knife within its sight, and once by cutting its throat?"

The same web site uses the following hadith to argue for some form of stunning prior to cutting the throat:

"Allah, Who is Blessed and Exalted, has prescribed benevolence toward everything and has ordained that everything be done in the right way; so when you must kill a living being, do it in the proper way — when you slaughter an animal, use the best method and sharpen your knife so as to cause as little pain as possible."

On the other hand, the experiments with the double rail conveyer restraint (in your article p4-5) shows that cutting the throat without prior stunning does not have to be painful.

salaams
Posted by grateful, Sunday, 31 July 2011 7:30:52 PM
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Hi Kerryanne,

I've just had a chance to read your posts. Thanks for a number of interest posts and web sites. You stated: "I think it would be wise to reach a compromise - something like agreement to pre stun in Australia& work towards funding proper animal welfare together off shore as well- dont you.?"

I can agree that as a practical issue, Indonesia is not in a position to install the sort of equipment required to meet the strict standards of animal welfare demanded of the Shariah under modern conditions of mass production. Under these conditions I'm sure there would be a strong case for pre-stunning as is done in Australia.

salaams
Posted by grateful, Sunday, 31 July 2011 7:52:27 PM
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Dear grateful,

Your welcome , & I apologize in my delay in responding. Yes handling & pre stress is very important for beast and meat alike. I received a email from the grand lady herself with her programs.
Before I leave the thread I will copy to you . I am sure she won’t mind . Helping to make slaughter as kind as possible is her life. I should also tell you I understand Halal & I am working to open more Abattoirs in Australia.
You are aware of course of New Zealand and other countries who have changed the playing field somewhat. You would know as well combined with shifts in other countries going in different directions Halal Australia needs to make a move now. ( I hope you know what I am referring to) I assume your versed on this topic.)

The way I see it is this- Just as the farmers tend to stick to themselves- so too do Islamic councils. Probably because of the comparative nature of acquiring the certifications . I suppose if there is one thing to come out of all this mess in WA & NT with live exports its actually got farmers talking to one another. Many of them are saying they want more abattoirs built. This is an opportunity for Halal in Australia but if we sit back too long Australia will forever be just the supplier of raw material- live exports. Well actually no- it will be worse than that grateful because there isn’t any doubt live exports will be banned sooner or later.
If its banned graziers and farmers will walk off. There will be no rushing around the build abattoirs then it will be too late. Australia has more Halal accreditation authorities than most countries.
There simply won’t be enough product if that happens grateful. What is required here is a meeting of minds and accreditation authorities to work together to bring about best results for Australia Halal together with Animal Welfare.



TBC
Posted by Kerryanne, Tuesday, 2 August 2011 10:31:37 PM
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continued

We will never achieve that in Australia by raising Sharia Law. It simply won’t work here. Nor will we open even one more Halal plant with a battle between RSPCA AVA standards and Islamic standards.

There is a programme ready for investors into plants throughout Australia This means of course a fair share for all BUT we can’t get the funding with inta fighting over Halal.
I am NOT saying Muslims have a lot of inta fighting- I am saying everybody does. Doesn't matter if its Animal Welfare groups or world food aid agencies.
If we work sensibly we will get good results & if not cant you just imagine the drama and problems in front of us.What we have just seen in Indonesia could be played out here before our eyes & why not if we got it wrong- rightfully so.

We can either do it right ( and when I say right) I Mean we can start a holy war and get nowhere or get on and open many more abattoirs which is good for Australian Halal product.

I wont get involved with the 600 different versions of whats Halal. Lets face it nobody can agree from Mosque to Mosque even.

We have so many different Muslim people from all parts of the world its impossible to please everybody and I am sure your aware of this.

There is nothing that turns investors off more than insecurity about Halal and concern it fly's in the face of that particular Animal Welfare body of that country is opposing the slaughter methods of a plant. It can shut plants down- & it will in the future of that I am sure. Investors are very aware of that and looking for areas to build with accreditation's that comply with Australia, its as simple as that.
TBC

TB
Posted by Kerryanne, Tuesday, 2 August 2011 10:52:09 PM
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by grateful- said

*I can agree that as a practical issue, Indonesia is not in a position to install the sort of equipment required to meet the strict standards of animal welfare demanded of the Shariah under modern conditions of mass production. Under these conditions I'm sure there would be a strong case for pre-stunning as is done in Australia.*

Yes grateful. You are most wise and I am sure you will understand the way we do best is to oppose Animals not being stunned in Indonesia. This is our argument for more Halal abattoirs to be built in Australia.
Let’s face it business is business in any trade and these shipping agents and Elders landmark are taking our Australia Halal business from us right under our noises. This is the most important time now for all Islamic councils to speak up & demand the cruel live exports stops and we slaughter here and stun Animals before their throats are cut. If we don’t argue that- we have no argument- against them going live- Do you understand?
Pls think: before you respond ok. Can you see what I am saying? If Muslims agree its ok for it to be done that way then we won’t ever have a proper Halal system like they are building in NZ. As well the animals will be shipped alive from here to timbuck two ( you know that)

It depends what your interests are- ie opening more abattoirs or just inta fighting with main stream public to make a point.

I am purely interested in the business side with proper animal welfare standards .

What are your interests in this ?

salaams
Posted by Kerryanne, Tuesday, 2 August 2011 11:23:03 PM
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