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The Forum > General Discussion > Answer the question please !

Answer the question please !

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@ individual:

Excellent, now we're getting somewhere. However, it seems to me that much of perceived bureaucratic incompetence depends on whether or not sea levels are actually rising. Indeed, it's possible that both scenarios are true - the 1947 event could have been a once-in-1000 years storm surge, and meanwhile the overall sea levels in the Torres Strait have been slowly and steadily increasing, which would explain other phenomena like salt water pollution of freshwater wells that have been there for centuries, or millennia in some cases.

It seems to me that it doesn't really matter to the affected TSI people what the cause of inundation is really. Clearly, continually rebuilding on land that is now known to be flood-prone is just stupid, and if there's corruption involved that must be brought to light and acted upon. I imagine that the land in question is owned by some family under Native Title, in which case the owners would be understandably reluctant to abandon land that has only recently returned. If it is alienated Crown land those issues obviously wouldn't apply.

The other major problem with abandonment and relocation is that of where to relocate the displaced Islanders. Times have changed since the founding of Bamaga - I imagine that any contiguous coastal land on the mainland would be subject to Native Title or be already owned as leasehold. Also, if as you say the sea level rises are generalised, what about mainland coastal communities that will also be inundated?

Clearly, it's going to be something of a nightmare, and I suppose it's good that some planning is taking place. As I said, I caught a news report the other day that featured the Mayor pleading for assistance - but unfortunately I didn't pay close enough attention. Is your anger directed at something to do with that?
Posted by morganzola, Wednesday, 20 July 2011 6:18:15 AM
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morganzola,
there are at least 6 large-ish uninhabited island plus some of the really big islands only have populations of no more than 100-150. Literally heaps of available land for internal refugees. Moving to another island shouldn't really pose a major problem as all inhabitants claim to identify as one people.
You say rising sea level in Torres Strait. The sea must be rising worldwide then or Torres Strait is subsiding. I have spoken to many people & none believe the sea level is any higher now than 50 years ago. On the contrary. I am aware though of a handful of sea level rising bleaters who think another great heap of money from the australian tax payers will solve that problem. As money is rather thin physically it will need an awful lot to raise the islands accordingly.
btw. looking at the pic of the sand-bagged grave the sea is only rising on one side.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 20 July 2011 1:51:05 PM
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morganzola,
After reading this correct description do you still think rising sea level is the cause or will you subscribe to the more realistic view that this so-called island is really not suitable for any more infrastructure investment.

Description:
Saibai is approximately 20km long by 6km wide. The island was formed from alluvial sediment, built up over time from neighbouring Papua New Guinea’s vast river systems, which are a mere 5kms to the north.

At an average of one metre above sea level, the island is a mixture of mangrove fringe, flood plain and brackish swamps. It is also subject to flooding and rising sea levels. The wet season deposits approximately 2 metres of rain, yet in comparison, the dry season leaves the island short of water.

There are strong links with the Bamaga community on Cape York as many Saibai Islanders migrated there following floods in the 1950’s.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 21 July 2011 6:32:56 AM
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@ individual:

I must say Saibai sounds like a quite horrible place to live, and on the face of it abandonment looks like the most rational strategy. However, it's not quite as simple as that, as I'm sure you well know. Given the claims that the recent inundations are a product of sea level rise due to AGW, whatever action is taken is likely to be seen as something of a precedent with respect to rising sea levels on the mainland. From your description, it seems likely to me that Saibai is subsiding ( for which you haven't shown any evidence) or that sea levels are rising (which Is predicted by AGW models).

You say there are plenty of suitable uninhabited islands. Why are they uninhabited - could it be that there is insufficient fresh water, or that the soils are too poor for horticulture? Are they currently owned by the Crown or is there some form of Native Title over them? The answers to these questions are important, because you can't can't just give land away if it's already owned.

You say "Moving to another island shouldn't really pose a major problem as all inhabitants claim to identify as one people", but that doesn't take into account the very strong clan affiliation that people have, which is inextricably linked with land ownership. Remember Mabo?

Further south, coastal councils are starting to consider 'retreat' strategies to adapt to rising sea levels, all of which are contentious. Imagine if you owned waterfront land (which can be extremely valuable), but half of it was washed away in the last storm, including your house. Who is responsible for your loss? Do you have a legitimate case for compensation, or is it 'tough tithes' for you?

Questions, questions, eh? How about you answer those ones before we generate some more?
Posted by morganzola, Thursday, 21 July 2011 7:55:22 AM
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Individual, you say:

>> There are some things you need to give some thought up front. When sea level rises it doesn't rise in some places & not others. The only other cause being subsiding land which is possibly due the collapse of cavities created by removing natural gas & oil. Then there is tectonic shifting of plates which is unlikely caused by man ... <<

and so on.

You want answers? May I suggest you give some thought up front too.

Perhaps you should look at this site:

http://climate.nasa.gov/keyIndicators/#seaLevel

Sea levels do rise in some places and recede in others, at the same time, depending on numerous factors. However, global mean sea level is rising, as the explanations, graphs and animations show - move the pointer from 1993 to 2009.
Posted by bonmot, Thursday, 21 July 2011 8:30:04 AM
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bonmot,
cheers for that, very interesting indeed. Can't argue with a billions of dollars worth of budget.
Nevertheless the graph shows a rise of three inches in our region which still is so minute & could possibly have a connection with the many quakes we had in the region lately. Have any measurements been taken to check if it's not the land subsiding ? if a rise of three inches is alarming then we'd really need to look at relocation more seriously. Those who argue that the Governments aren't doing anything clearly need to either put up a plan or quietly move into a higher corner. No amount of funding will prevent a swamp being swamped.
Posted by individual, Thursday, 21 July 2011 5:22:54 PM
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