My feelings too Poirot. There is no substance on either side of politics and certainly very little to distinguish them except perhaps in IR - even then miniscule.

You would hardly know Gillard was from the Left faction with the new war on welfare, following in Abbott's policy announcement. The Nauru/East Timor fiasco, another scramble so as not to lose face. More of the same.

Much rather each party just state emphatically we believe in X, Y and Z vote for us or not. Even better, make some improvements to allow participatory democracy on some issues.

Belly, yes, indeed I am in the Greens, and well aware of their failing in many areas, however, since I continue to vote, I vote Green and reluctantly, very reluctantly, in fact only under extreme pressure, do I then force the ALP to earn my vote by having it cascade through all the rightwing nongs that pass as 'independent' in my electorate before being lodged in the spot but one above the biggest nong imaginable, our local Coalition MHR.

So, not too much ideology involved there, I'm afraid, except to this extent, I recognise, as others here state, that the ALP and Coalition are devoid of any visible signs of integrity or intelligence and both have abandoned whatever founding ideology their parties once had.

I describe Gillard as a 'husk', and choose that word very carefully, but the same could be said of the two major parties too.

Belly, you must have missed the ABC 'special' on Howes where he bragged about his brilliance and his role in supplanting the much hated Rudd (good on yers there Howie) and installing The Husk we now suffer.

You know very well that Swan is the plaything of Big Bill, as is Gillard via Howes.

Still, having read the hagiography on Gillard you and I do agree that Gillard has no understanding of the role or need for trades unions. Her interest, like so many in the game-of-factions, is simply in what they deliver as a personal reward.

To that extent, old guard, new guard mudguard (as Joh used to chirp) it makes no difference, factions are soap boxes from which to posture, preen and secure red or green leather seats from, and that is about all, because once sitting, all 'policy thoughts' minimal though they might have been in the first place, simply vanish a in puff of invisible smoke.

As for the council you mention, yes, I'd probably agree that they are into 'over reach' and should just get on with the three Rs that they probably struggle with anyway

It is not a last minute change for me, I too am much more than disappointed with the federal ALP.
My federal party is out of touch with me and its followers.
Have no doubt.
None! My often used statement that Labor is being propped up by Abbott and his ranting, are my true views.
As it is for my view Abbott too has Gillard to lean on, or he would not be his party's head.
GREENS ARE NOT an answer, Marickville WARNS US ALL close ties with the very left unions too stay away from greens.
Gillard UNDERMINED Rudd, grubs who live under her umbrella like Simon Crean[a man no better than Latham] too.
My party is to say the least unimpressive.
I highlight the following are my views from outside, no information just thoughts.
Howe's has not bought about a vital change in the NSW AWU.
He is under fire by self interests within industry and the union.
Labors feed the chooks a bit here and a bit there, is hurting every one.
He always has the task of growing and protecting his/my union.
Its members/workers are the only reason it exists.
TBC is having himself on, Howe's is not tied to HMAS Gillard the Aussie Titanic in waiting.
continued.

You know Belly, there was not one single trade union during the Hawke-Keating-Kelty era that hesitated for ONE second, including yours (and mine) while job redesign, award restructuring, structural adjustment and enterprise bargaining reduced workers wages and power and shifted whatever jobs we had left here, overseas.

NOT ONE.

And your union was in this up to its armpits, exporting jobs for all they were worth.

So, do please spare the heart strings about 'saving jobs'.

Howes BOASTS about installing Gillard. Are you the only poster here on OLO not to have heard him?

Along with the Prince of Darkness too.

No, not Joe Lucas, Mark Arbib.

We are living in historic times.
It is very rare to have a hung Parliament, unfortunately not for a divided senate.
So in expressing dislike for Labor or Liberals[ I consider Nats a room within the Liberals] do we want more independents?
Are we pleased with current dealing by some like Wilkie who ran third in his seat, but got in on preferences.
Forget the slanderous taunts about them,all party's would have dealt with them.
Each was elected as a refugee from his side of politics after all.
So are we to wait for the perfect party,a train that will never come?
Or blind our selves to the reality of the greens?
Go please just goggle Sydney Sunday Telegraph.
Todays one.
Read the story about Marickvilles lord Mayoress, a green,her or is it 5 greens, look too at 4 ALP half wits! far worse.
Who supported a vote to ban goods from Israel.
See how bill posters calling for a no green vote had greens youths chant Zionist at them!!~
Find balance Piriot, you are far too wise to be used by such.
As bad as they are the ALP is the only ship carrying my wish for change and improvement.
Unless I am very wrong our lost leader is setting sail for a war and Double Dissolution election, disillusion is assured without leadership change.
CONSIDER HOWEVER Tony Abbott with control of both houses ,remember greens are no longer a long term bet.

I have only just noticed your post between my two TBC.
I have no defense about Labor under Hawk and Keiting exporting Australian jobs.
But I claim understanding, more I am afraid than most.
We traded by opening our banking system and getting truly involved in world trade.
We left our small country based on sheep and grains and became a trading nation.
Opening trade to America and many other country's, unions took part in the accord, in my view it took more than it gave in the short term.
But the days of unions against everyone needed to go.
You remain not just wrong but badly so, Paul backed the removal of Rudd, but he has not alone got the power to remove or prop up Gillard.
We MUST BE REALISTIC.
No government in the world can bring back protection barriers like those we had,and still claim to want free trade.
We can not compete with other manufacturing country's,to say we should/could is folly.
The exported jobs, see nation wide clothing and textiles,went and would have, to avoid our wages structure.
Consider this, at best greens get 12% of the vote, have no chance of power without Labor or Liberal EVER.
Labor at worst gets 43% two party preferred, Libs at best?less than 50%
How many Australians want us to continue to be involved in world trade?
who wants self interest groups to get tariff protection that may see this country suffer to prop up industry that can not compete.