Nanny state? what do we ban next? maybe but.
That Nanny state pays the bills via us, health and the welfare for those unable to work because of smoking.
15.000 are said to die each year because of smoking.
We are about to put cigarettes in brown unmarked packs,and the industry will fight that in every way they can.
How do we save lives and the costs?
Should we pay for others folly's.
An alternative exists, it too will be pilloried by the industry and users but we should not continue to pay.
40% tax on all production ,this tax straight to out national health system and distributed to the health care that is suffering because of smoking.

I for one am all for banning tobacco and smoking.

Nobody can possibly deny the fact that it kills, but, like many things, where do we get the revenue from that tobacco products raise?

Solve this problem and we can tackle many issues that cause premature deaths.

In the mean time, make them pay their own medical bills. Same goes for anyone who knowingly abuses their bodies then calls for medical help. We already have enough extra mouths to feed.

why are you telling lies belly?
you say 15,000 deaths
but the lawyers use the word ATTRIBUTED
ie not the cause of death as such..but deaths ATTRIBUTABLE to smoking

how is it attributable
by deeming smoking to cause cancer heart-attack..empghasaema and frost bite..to be caused by smoking..thus any deaths FROM THE SAME
are ATTRIBUTABLE to smoking..

its funny how we swallow the spin
we heard lawyers colluded to hide the facts
BUT ARNT ALLOWED TO SEE THE FACTS..its a clever catch 22

how do we KNOW ..they got the facts?
they could have ..made this whole thing up..!
just to get their mates a nice tax cash cake..

you know most politition's...ARE or WERE lawyers
over half ya govt members WERE LAWYERS..the self same lawyers that are now DEEMING tobacco to kill..and getting a nice new tax out of us..by guilt UNSUPPORTABLE by the facts

i dont know any sick smokers
how many you know of?

but aint it funny how they go into hospital
and die within days

aint it funy how we get a tax
then get new guilt..from adverts ..WE PAYED for

our tax started IMMEDIATLY
but the miners TAX will never be
whats the difference?

25 million of adverts?

to be continued
there is a lot more ..
im going to be saying on this

those who trust lawyers
put their trust on fools

GIVE US FACTS
give autopsy reports
but we dont do autopsies
they would expose WE BEEN LIED TO

you say industry will fight
lol you are a funny guy

mate i been waiting for my tobacco delivery to arrive for weeks
seems they are about to cut and run...worse i paid for my order via anz...[and you know what they been doing to this site]

im taking this personally mate
govt steals my tax..feeds me some guy coughing up strawberry jam

his cough isnt even believable
why arnt our suppliers taking govt to court for the lies

we se a cows artery filled with margerine
or some guy with tooth problems teeth..mate aint that neat
i got yellow teeth..with smokers breath..but NOThING LIKE THE ADVERT

how many smokers got teeth like that?
any dentist could tell ya it aint smokibng what donbe that
those teeth come from too myuch acid [ie softdrink or orange juice]
those teeth are in some kids mouth..!

their mother/father fed them softdrink
not toobacco

or how about the guy with black toes
mate thats some mountain climber with gangrenous toes

HOW YA THING SOME JURY WILL REACT TO THOSE LIES

dont be joking
lawyers wont represent us
because they are the PROBLEM

but all it takes is truth to be revealed
we are still one third the population..one of us will be on the jury
or know a smoker and be forced into compulsory tax because of that

BUT ITS ALL BASED ON A LIE
tax by guilt

shame blame lies
and ever more taxes

you talk about alternatives ..lol
yeah like chewing gum..priced by lawyers?

how hard is it to take suger out of gum
and throw in a few ciggie butts?

then charge us ten times the price of real chewing gum?
make it SO EXPENSIVE

that it NEEDS and GETS
a govt SUBSIDY via your health dollars?

mate ya being conned...AGAIN

i dont know any smoker in hospital
NAME NAMES BELLIES..how many you got?

how about those abusing sugar..
who need medical aid for diabetus
they stealing from you too?

or those people need their blood washed
every week /day..they stealing from YOU?

are they paying tax ..on the cause of their disease
reviled by all..blamed for everything
advertised ..by ridicule and insult

smokers go to hospitral..told you did it to you ..GOAWAY
who else cops that..how many obese DONT OVEREAT THEIR WAY INTO SICKNESS?

but no we must protect the sugar industry
mustnot tax lollies or transfats..or booze

mate if lawyer really helped
this lie couldnt have got started

but they been sheparding the lie
ASK YOURSELF WHY

think of the ruling in usa
that forced the companies to payout
EVEN THAT WE SMOKERS PAID FOR

how come other multinationals appeal
and get off..but was all that spin ever appealed?

why not?

smoking causes cancer..lol
next we hear they will cure cancer shortly

heck they even made gmo tobacco
that is said to stop this
but can we buy it...NO

WHY NOT?

we pay our way
stop giving the money to the media for adverts that lie

put the tax WE ARE FORCED TO PAY..into health..for smokers
but no we get told you stink ..go to hell

is govt allowed to declare war
on its oWN PEOPLE via lies?

you swallowed the coolaid..and we get abuse and a new tax

IS IT BANNED NOW?
then whats the problem..if its really bad ban it
but there is no proof its bad..
so we get sold spin/lies.. via adverts

drinkers are the real problem

go to the emergancy center
on any friday or saterday night

you will see glassings rapes
the result of violence and drink drivers

we got real problems
mainly that lawyers
[prophesional liars]..are running politricks
spinning spin to get ever more guilt taxes..

the ozone hole will cause global heating
now
the earth is melting give us a new tax..
because now its carbon ..not ozone?

cant you see this spin ..for ever new taxes]..
will be the death of all of us

mate im angry

i got a weeks worth of smokes left
then i really get angry

you aint seen nothing yet
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11283&page=0
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=3851&page=0
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2696&page=0
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2905&page=0

cant find that time the libs planned a smokers tax
that julia adopted
then we got the adverts

just like adverts spin
the miners used to not get their tax

but dont worry
this time we will have a debait

its time we stood up
or hit the streets ..or the courts
or formed our own 'smokers rights party'

OUG, a load of home truths in that lot. My only response to the governments sham of taxing us supposedly to facilitate a better health outcome is bullsheiser, it is about the money and only about the money.

Why are our aboriginal children still dying at a third world rate? Can't find a way to tax that problem away it seems.

Since it has been shown convincingly that tobacco reduces lifetime medical costs by significantly reducing life expectancy, (possibly a solution to our aging population - sic) banning tobacco would be a move to improve the lives of citizens at large cost to the taxpayer.

As someone who had a father die from a tobacco induced protracted illness, I personally am for the ban.

To a non-smoker it may seem a simple issue. Smoking is bad for your health, taxpayer dollars are used to treat smokers, so it should be banned.

But as with everything in life, it ain't that simple.

Many things are bad for your health, as oug points out. Where should we draw the line? Once we have been successful "banning" tobacco, what might be next? Fatty foods? Driving petrol-engined cars?

And does prohibition have its desired effect anyway?

The US tried banning the production of alcohol between 1920 and 1933. Even Canberra was dry between 1910 and 1928 - though one of the first acts of Parliament in the new location was to repeal the legislation. In both cases the reason for prohibition - "men should be with their families", and "prevention of unruly behaviour" - remained unfulfilled, with the only beneficiaries being a new breed of law-breakers.

More interestingly, discussions on how we should combat drugs, from cannabis to heroin, from e to PCP, is now gravitating to its effects, not only of the drug in question on the individual, but the widespread corruption that, as we know from past experience, criminalization inevitably entails. While the decriminalization of drug dealing is hard to contemplate, there are some pretty forceful arguments that say society will be better off with regulation, rather than prohibition.

I have no doubt that we should continue to discourage individuals from harming themselves, whether through smoking, alcohol, drugs or fatty foods. That is part of the role of a responsible society.

However, creating an entirely new class of criminal through aggressive legislation will not, in my view, produce a positive outcome for anybody.

Of course it should be banned. How could there be any other opinion.
If was any other product they would have been rushing around the shops
taking it off the shelves.

Actually enforcing it would not be all that hard. It is a very bulky
product.
When grown the leaves are large and can be found from satellites.
When it comes into the country it comes in 40 ft containers
smelling for all the world like tobacco.

So a few would grow it and sell it on the black market but the
consumption would fall so much that it would no longer be a burden on society.

there are many here
WHO WERE SMOKERS

as they knew ..when smoking..
they werre sick ..everyday..lol

there wasnt a day
when they didnt suck up big
on the docters time and as for beds ..they filled them up

now they have stopped smoking
..they have the money to pay extra ..for electicity and water

get it..you save two grand on not smoking
meaning govt needs to get that two grand out of you ..somehow

they reformed your evil habbit..yet your still broke

reformed smokers..never sick*..sic..lol

aint it great when you got up..from your death-bed

oh how easy to forget
but think ..did you chose to give up
or did others chose for you...

did others fill you so full of shame/blame/fear

i recall my kids lecturing me ..after my tax paid
for the schools to get propaganda..

but now ..the non-smokers lol..
are into drugs/booze and yes pills..aint moralism great

just like before they killed the jews
first they picked-on ..the mentally feeble
then the sick and old..then the homo ..then the jipsy ..then the jew

soo it will be you..! too

yes it will be based-on ..bias and lie
but thats how the game is played..

you missed it when govt broke-up ..the free-love hippy thing
with aids..via the grim-reaper..

ie your next lover ..will kill you..get it?

think why you swallow the pr spin

those who used to smoke
cant get onto no high-horse
it wasnt the smoking that was killing you..only fear..

and if it is
i paid in full..with my taxes..
its not my fault it went to the media and anti-smoking brigade

why does my smoking concern you?

i havnt seen a docter in ten years
nor been to any hospital

i dont cough up blood
and smoke like a chiminy
i pay my tax..

its my only friend
its you lot ..that are sick

i live alone.. and shall die alone
now leave me the hell alone..

go pick on fat people..
or drunks or robbers or thieves
[if you dare]

Problem with banning substances is that it strengthens mafia riches and consumer base of dependent addicts, and therefore power.

I'm all for banning smoking in public places though, and quite happy so long as Tobacco companies are taxed enough to break even (although in many countries they are taxed a lot more, and pay further straight into public coffers. So long as this revenue does not go into politicians' salaries but medical costs and then infrastructure, it should be good.

Although I detest smoking , I do not argue that it should be banned. This is not because of the alleged civil liberty of persons to smoke , as I do not believe that such a right exists , but because a ban would be resisted by the addicts and the pushers , using the same types of specious arguments that have appeared in some of the above posts . There would be illegal suppliers of banned tobacco , but this [ by itself ] is not an argument against a ban . People commit breaches of all laws , but the laws are still needed , with suitable penalties for breaches . My reason is that it is probably just not worth the expense and trouble of enforcing a ban . One of the saddest features of the smoking addiction is that the pushers seek out the most poorly educated and financially poor citizens as addicts . Even more aggresssive smoking restrictions and anti - smoking advertisements should continue . Any loss of revenue from smoking taxes would be more than compensated by the savings in health expenditure .

Its a furphy to suggest that smokers are costing society all this
money. Govts earn many billions a year from nicotine addicted
citizens, so smokers more then pay their way.

From a cost point of view, some of the most expensive people
to maintain, are those who live on a pension to a ripe old age
of 95 or whatever. The smoker who dies 30 years earlier, will
actually save Govts money.

I don't smoke and I am opposed to a ban. Government is already far too involved in the private lives of citizens and we should be demanding a retreat from, not further invasion of, people's privacy. I am happy that more than enough has been done as a deterrent and smokers should be given a little freedom back.

The sedentary moaners who consume processed food are the ticking time bombs for serious chronic health problems gained early in life, such as Diabetes 2. They will get sick early and last long. They also come from generations that are used to consuming medical care to the max, frequently visiting doctors and demanding scripts.

You really have to feel sorry for smokers though, they are social outcasts and are taxed outrageously. It seems that there have to be groups to pick on and there is a broad range of victims available, from 4X4 owners through to university students (many are jealous of the young). Even people who wear hats cop a serve from some.

Australia is becoming, make that has become, a nation of busybodies whose recreational pastime is looking over their neighbour's fence for something to complain about. I also detect the growth of envy, which would really top off the Whining Oz as a serial nuisance and health hazard.

Let our motto be 'Vive et sine vivere', live and let live.

I may have been deleted or may have hit the wrong key, thought I answered rechtub.
OUG, lets call it game set match bloke,tried very hard, in fact gave it up and tried again later.
But lie? attributed or said to be how can than be different.
Now you, and cornflower put the point about personal freedoms.
17% who smoke 83% who do not, then rechtubs is right? let those who can not pay pay, the sick and unwell victims.
Here is the reason OUG I will no longer read your posts, this is a question, one I have put two answers for here.
TAX it out of existance, or ban it, either way for me it has to be one or the other.
For you? seemingly no tax and leave the bills to us.
Others without doubt have views different than both of us, one may have an answer we do not see.
But freedom to debate any issue without being called for lies that do not exist are a must.

If you're serious about banning tobacco you must also have to ban alcohol, which is far more socially destructive substance.

Then we can move onto removing unhealthy foods from our diet and impose some sort of mandatory exercise regime on the population.

The restrictive bans implemented to date are more about legislating against individual behaviour rather than out of some higher moral purpose.

Some political parties are still accepting donations from Tobacco Industries and Nick Minchin's own website used to promote the notion that dangers from passive smoking was a fraud.

Government revenue taken from smokers should be quarantined and used to build "Smokers-only" Hospitals.

Bans would be highly profitable for organised crime who could turn out lines of weed+tobacco, weed+tobacco+crack and so on.

Bans would also affect tourism.

However I object to bans anyway because this isn't a totalitarian state, well not yet anyhow. Small government please and stick to the knitting but do that well.

belly your being loose with numbers ..as well as definitions
claiming not to read my posts ..then commenting on selected bits of em

i will let the record speak for itself
now you say its 17 percent.. [from which these 15,000 come from]
matey your numbers are slippery ..at least give sources..

you say we dont contibute in fact leech of you lot
you know of course old folks cost 50,000 a year to keep in old folks homes

..thats a thing we smokers cant be accused of slurping at.. statisticly we shall be dead ..long before you lot are still leaching of the public purse.. we dont live long enough to even get a pension mate ..more savings

we pay multiple hundreds percent tax
on top of the basic LEGAL substance
but thats not enough for you lot..

you want to add more stress
kill us even quicker...

and then say you dont read my posts
and by so doing..you reveal your ignorance

yes you will no doudt get me banned ..again

your idols to have feet of clay

it would be great if i could ignore you bloke
but your a persistant nuisance ..just like the party policy ..you think you promote

we know each other well enough
to call a spade a spade and not a shovel

but as you got no idea of the difference between a fact and a presumption of fact ..there is little use even replying ..your poor attempt to create a flame

your numbers seem rather rubbery

present proof re
'' you? seemingly no tax and leave the bills to us.''

i want proof matey..!
do you even know ..what your trying to say about me?

your accusation is clearly an ignorant faulse presumption

i pay my tax as i go..be it gst ..or the tax on tobacco

ALL smokers clearly ..*must pay the tax
are you just blind /dumb ..or trying to apear ignorant?

just because you think to be clever
dosnt mean you got any factual proof

PRESENT PROOF ..of what clearly /absurdly.. a lie

OUG writing slowly,only read your last post, first line because it started with Belly.
And until the word lie was reading all your posts.
Now please let us look at grog in all its forms, it can be taken is, without any side effects.
Yes some die and destroy their lives by it, far from all.
Mafia? ? what of the many do we mean? yes some trade would go black market,governments with guts could make that and drugs not worth the risk.
Is it true? my concern for the health and cost impacts of smoking is a challenge to our freedoms.
And even now if every dollar retrieved in tax was spent on health we would still fund more than we get in tobacco problems.
The slur on us once smokers is cute, hands up I was a walking Ashe tray.
4 packs a day, more, chain smoker,said I can never give this up.
I did, the day an old gentleman died after telling me he killed himself smoking.
Cold Turkey.
Should the government then stay out of personal choice? stop warning us about sun cancer.
Not ask us to live more of our life, warn against smoking, not introduce plain packs?

There are many drugs that are dangerous, habit forming and lethal.
Alcohol and tobacco are amongst them. Alcohol is a factor in traffic deaths, homicides, and implicated in thousands more deaths arising from such causes as liver damage, and so on. The numbers of compulsive alcoholics and the destructive effects of their addiction on family life, human relationships and the economy are incalculable.
Tobacco, a drug to which milllions are addicted, kills thousands each year through diseases such as lung cancer, emphysema, heart disease,
strokes and consumes an even greater share of medical resources.
It's unfortunate that modern medical practice focuses primarily on the treatment rather than the prevention of disease - on surgery for failed hearts rather than preventing the habits that led to those hearts to fail in the first place. We've grown accustomed to the idea that if we become sick - the doctors will make us well. In all too many cases, however, the truth is that we make ourselves sick, and the doctors can do little or nothing to make us better. A prime example of this is tobacco - the dangers of smoking are well known, yet millions still smoke - spending mega bucks on the drug (a certain portion goes in taxes) and the tobacco industry is thriving. Banning tobacco however, will not force people to give up smoking. The same as many people refuse to use car seat belts, even though the practice drastically reduces the chance of death or serious injury in an accident. Many eat themselves into cholesterol-induced heart disease, and still encourage their children to eat junk food. Many more become addicted to alcohol, barbiturates, cocaine, heroin, and other drugs whose dangers are common knowledge. I'm not sure what the answer is -
but banning something I don't think will work in the long term. Strong continued warnings of the dangers involved in smoking,
and making the drug socially unacceptable - may get better results.

Most studies of addiction find that about 5% of the population is susceptible. About 70% of Australian men were smokers after WWII. Smoking rates in Australia have fallen from about 40% of men in 1980, to about 15% of the population today. In contrast, use of illicit drugs seems to maintain a more stable usage pattern, with reductions in use of some drugs as the use of others increase.

In light of the success of public health campaigns in reducing consumption, making tobacco illegal seems moronic. How much would be spent on policing? Why risk giving a harmful substance the appeal of illegality? What would be the point of persecuting people because of an innate vulnerability? And how would all those chain smoking beer swilling footy executives be able to encourage high moral values in Aussie kids with such a prohibition?

Health authorities have been very successful at reducing the consumption of tobacco in Australia. The war on drugs has been a total disaster, and can only boast of killing the stupid, young and desperate, and of enriching terrorists and organised criminals. Making tobacco illegal simply defies common sense.

<The smoker who dies 30 years earlier, will
actually save Govts money.>

Yabby, a World Bank report claimed this statement to be false for high income countries.

"recent reviews in high-income nations conclude that smokers’ lifetime healthcare costs do indeed exceed nonsmokers’, despite their shorter lives."

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/EXTHEALTHNUTRITIONANDPOPULATION/EXTETC/0,,contentMDK:20365226~menuPK:478891~pagePK:148956~piPK:216618~theSitePK:376601,00.html

What annoys me is the utter hypocrisy of banning the e-cigarette because of uncertainty about its safety while continuing to allow the sale of carcinogenic tobacco products.

Oneundergod, I'm sorry, but you are in denial.

Check out this info from the Australian Medical Association - who have nothing personal to gain at all by promoting a smoke-free environment.

" Tobacco smoking is the largest single preventable cause of death and disease in Australia. Smoking contributes to more deaths and hospitalisations than alcohol and illicit drug use combined. It is a major risk factor for coronary heart disease, stroke, peripheral vascular disease, cancer and a variety of other diseases and conditions.
Smoking rates have been in decline over the past few decades, but it is still responsible for the greatest burden on the health of all Australians, with an estimated 18 000 people dying each year as a result of tobacco smoking. Smoking needs to be universally recognised as one of Australia's major drug problems, as it accounts for 80 per cent of all drug-related deaths."
http://ama.com.au/node/2241

They could be wrong of course. But what could they possibly gain from lying?
They get a lot of their revenue from patients who smoke!
Could it be that, as doctors, they actually CARE about people's health?
The medical profession have to watch the suffering.

Believe it.
Give it up.

Ban tobacco. We have to start somewhere!

Well put Suzeonline, I find the reasons not to ban more interesting, in the denial.
We saw attempts to ban alcohol fail, and it always will, but is it a danger TO EVERY ONE who uses it?
I do not think so.
The costs in health care may even exceed Tobaccos, but not even close on a per user basis.
I heard a debate about the coming legal battle by Tobacco giants against our government leading the way, in plain packs for all products.
It was said if we do the world will follow and the strength of the coming fight to continue adds on packs is being watched world wide.
We may get a visit from a lobbyist here.
Any close look will see massive investment by the industry in selling its goods in the 3rd world, adds aimed at teenagers.
Tax it out of existance as it seems we may not have the drive to Ban it.

suzie..you are being taken in by trickey words

QUOTE.."..estimated 18 000 people dying"
think about this..this is docters..ESTIMATING

where is the science FACT?

look suzie...this is the same docters..that persribe you drugs
that the rep gives them gifts to perscribe...get it yet..these docters put you on brandname meds..just to get a free trip..

read up on adverse reactions to perscribed drugs
one in 100 hospitalisations are ADVERSE-reaction to legal drugs
perscribed by a docter..[1 in ten of those RESULT in death..

now why needs docters GUESTIMATE
ie estimate..because we dont do autopsies..to find out what killed 'the patient'..if he dies under a docters care

ALL THEY NEED DO IS FILL IN THEIR OPINION..
of what was the cause of death..IN THEIR OPINION

these are the same mob ..getting gifts from big pharma
who dont want govt intefering with their govt gifts..
and subsidised legal drugs...that help pay for their FREE trips

no docter is going to say my treatment
or my ignorance killed that smoker

THINK ABOUT IT..!

thus we get estimates
in lue of facts

[they cant even get their own numbers spin right..!]

thing is we are being conned
when they baned booze..the drinkers said we wont be the last
when they banned dope..they said we wont be the last

when they ban smoking
WE WONT BE THE LAST...!

think about it
after we ban smoking
its back to drink

that is the underlying REAL cause of death
for 4 of the 5 highest causes of death

go ahead
you lot are drunk on your own spin
seeing the sin in others
but not in yourselves

AT LEAST BE HONEST

…One under god: You are such a “classic”. I just love your passion: Especially on the subject of smoking I have noticed: But you “slid“ a quip past all here. I have heard it said many times in the past, a smoke is quite often referred to as a “friend” by a smoker. Smoking is a pacifying habit of addition and I conclude from that oft supported premise that the smoker actually experiences a transference of affection of a kind, from themselves towards the cigarette, thus making realistic conclusions on the evils of smoking difficult for them.

…I have some sympathy with the oft proffered argument from smokers that its not necessarily a smoking related illness that will ultimately “get you in the end”. I remember a documentary recently ( that I can no longer refer to, since the circumstances have slipped my mind), but the show went on to substitute the theory of premature death from smoking to relating death to a genetic predisposition: In a more colloquial sense, “If the skeeters don’t get ya’ the Gators will”.

…Now, I am not in denial since I no longer smoke, but I feel inclined to fall in behind “Fester” above. If his figures can be believed, then the actual number of smokers has been drastically reduced in the post war period, to a point of almost insignificance.

…Public health campaigns appear to work, but better is the current trend in partial prohibition policy, which makes the smoking of cigarettes in high profile public areas illegal and punishable with fines.

…So my conclusion is that Governments have got this one right. The chip, chip, chip, approach is far superior and potentially more successful than prohibiting the consumption of the product.

…Next; Alcohol…He, He, He…

Yul Brynner quote,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNjunlWUJJI

I would hate to see any of us inflicted by any of the dreadful diseases associated with smoking, various cancers are just some of the awful possibilities.

Actually oneundergod, I didn't have to agree with any of the doctor's 'spin' at all. I made up my own mind with the evidence I saw with my own eyes, during 30 years of nursing.
Sorry, they tell the truth!

These days there are new laws regarding 'presents' for Doctors from drug companies. Look it up if you don't believe me.

Don't you dare tell me I am 'sinning' because I don't believe the 'denial' rubbish you spout about smoking.
You are mixing up two passionate beliefs of yours there.

If I had a dollar for the number of people who have bemoaned the fact they ever took up smoking, I would be a very rich nurse indeed.

Why not wander into a respiratory or cardiac ward in any hospital, and ask how many of the patients sucking on oxygen tubes have ever smoked?

Or are you too afraid of the inevitable answers?

*If I had a dollar for the number of people who have bemoaned the fact they ever took up smoking, I would be a very rich nurse indeed.*

Ah, now you are getting closer, Suze. The answer is not to ban
smoking, but to make it easier for people to quit. Some people
have huge difficulties, not everyone is the same. People like
Renee Bittoun understand the complexity of it all, clearly your
average nurse does not.

Champix is making a big difference out there, its heading in the
right direction.

Fact is that society encouraged smokers, took their money and
got em hooked. Society can now do its share to get em unhooked,
without banning. It doesen't work.

Suze, you do carry on.

The medical association have nothing to gain by spinning tobacco you say. I believe they started the whole war on tobacco in an attempt to distract attention from the fact that they, including nurses, kill more people with their poor workmanship than all the drugs put together.

As for medical costs, in my social group, mostly old fa*ts, the heart attacks, & cancers are all occurring among the non smokers. It is a source of some annoyance that it is us pure non smokers who are suffering medical problems, not those foul smokers.

However let me assure you that from a consumers point of view we are all in total agreement. The most dangerous thing anyone can do has nothing to do with indulging in the pleasurable vices, but is to allow ones self to be admitted to hospital.

You may not have much wrong with you when you go in, but you will have when you come out, if in fact you ever do get out.

a few decades ago the insurance industry went into a panic
there was going to be an epidemic of asbestosis

well many of those sucking on their tubes are the fruit of that substance...but without autopcy..we will never know how come these people got their ailments

yes many asbestosis victims may be smokers
even so did smoking make them die
or did asbestosis make them sick

thing is no autosies..then its only opinion
NOT FACT..the highest cause of lung cancer is woodsmoke

the second highest cause of lung cancer
is micro particulate from diesal

third is from smoking
but the stidies that prove this are few and far between
why?..because its hard to tax woodsmoke

we know the power of the petrol lobby..
so no tax on their causing sickness

we seen how jameshardy moved os
abandoning those THEY MADE SICK..

but smokers hey..their fair game
hated despised by all

you see a smoker
and say he is sick BECAUSE he smokes
SO HOW THEM NON SMOKERS GET SICK
and dont say pasive smoking..think of ther other causes

yiou work in a smoggy city?
well you gonna be on them tubes one day
AND IT WONT BE BECAUSE OF tobacco..but ignorance

3 out of 4 people DONT GET CANCER
because their body self heals

any one who is related to a REAL death
from cancer shouldnt smoke

just as faties shouldnt scoff transfats

you are a nurse
not a docter

tell me nurse
jow many autopsies you attend?

WHAT REAL PROOF YOU GOT?

how many times you stood there ..while a docter said
smoking caused his death..and that was it...

a statistic ..via opinion was formed
docters kill more than they cure
especially if your poor or smoke..[even you carers hate us]

get it?

Suzeonline I would just like to say sorry, not for hasbeen but from me to you.
I could if I wished tell of a death in my family that bought questions.
But those Nurses? great Lady's great human beings.
They nursed us too mums visitors all of us, I trust them.
Now tobacco is getting some protection here,I always knew it would, but saying prove it kills?
A lobbyist's dream here that fact known and proven in debate?
Government, IF LOBBY CASH is not to get in the way, will further reduce users.
How many of us knew a dead or dieing smoker who told us if only they had never smoked?
More tax seems the way but just remember we all complain about governments not doing things we think they should.
Here some say they should do nothing .

its not ok
to be racist or slag off at imagrants or homosexuals
but smokers no worries..

generate any accusation
and the mud sticks ..to those vile smokers

they ..steal your health funding
they..dont pay their way..etc etc

they fill hospital-beds..
thats why/you cant get..your new breast-implants

they.. can say ..these deaths are smoking/RELATED
but there is no proof..

WE DONT AUTOPSY DEAD SMOKERS

so the docters CAN ..AND DO...write the case closed
'death by smoking'

well i dont know ...any smokers ..in hospital/sick..!
i have experienced ..the oppression of smokers

but who cares
its only a smoker

the self agrandised ..labor spokesman says quote

''..tobacco is getting some protection here,
I always knew it would,''

so he admits to raising the issue
as a flame*

but lets egsamin the racist/slur further

quote..'A lobbyist's dream here''

what ..re the kills thing?

"that fact known..and proven in debate?"

we never get a balanced debate/mate

its all based on fear spin and hate
you havnt put up... a single link..!
because thats how the trick is played

people allready bought into..the adverts pr/spin...
ie drank the coolaid

'IF LOBBY CASH ...is not to get in the way,'
[lol]

[hasnt 'got 'in_the_way"..so far...lol]
proving your deluding..!..again...!

look for ever more NEW TAXES..
ON THE REST OF THE other MUGGINS

by ever more perverse adverts
giving spin..not hard-science fact

[ie no autospsies
..means its all based ..on opinion]

"How many of us..knew a dead or dieing smoker'

good point..i havnt met any..!

be honest the rest of you..
how many you know?..personally..!

think..why is it so?

"who told us if only they had never smoked?'

yea i saw yule brenner ..on tv too
was that ..who this unnamed 'smoker' was?

"More tax seems the way"
a typical labor mindest...lol
the fruit falls not far from the tree

tell your labrat mates
GET YOUR HANDS OUT OF MY MONEY/life..!

get the reds out..
from under your bed

and stop sipping the stuff ..when your posting
it rots not only the brain and ya liver..but feeds hate/mate

BUT YOU ARE RIGHT MATE

its a lobbiests dream
to wit the anti smoking lobby
cleaning up from subsised ..nicteen gum/patches[ie big pharma]

or by selling..anti smoking adverts..
to the biased media loving the advert cash

[we even have them ..on top of this page]

yes mate
a lobbiest dream,,!*
WE AGREE FOR ONCE..!

your so clever
in not naming WHICH LOBBY..!
is dreaming up this nightmare..!

the same fear/hate..
advert pr spin merchants..."lobby" cleaning up
on this tax cake...

the ones who dont care ..what they advertuise
as long as the lies/spin is believed
and they get money..

heck mate ban it

at least
THEN..the ANTI SMOKING RACIST/lobby ..goes broke
HA HA HA..ban it mate

that would be great
ban it mate

if you got the guts
like to send that sort broke
then they will get onto the next product

BOOZE
you loose

OUG is right; keep on lighting them up, your death with smoking, will be helping others you dont even know.



BLUE

Yabby <"People like Renee Bittoun understand the complexity of it all, clearly your average nurse does not."

Actually Yabby, I am not only a nurse (obviously a hated creature on this thread!), but my husband was also a heavy smoker for 15 years.
He used some nicotine patches to stop within 3 weeks.

My brother and sister-in-law still smoke unfortunately.
Do you realise how awful it is to know what is possibly ahead of them, but not be able to stop them?

It is frustrating and it makes me angry that tobacco companies are allowed to keep peddling their deadly products. I don't blame the tobacco addicts for their habit at all.

Hasbeen<"The medical association have nothing to gain by spinning tobacco you say. I believe they started the whole war on tobacco in an attempt to distract attention from the fact that they, including nurses, kill more people with their poor workmanship than all the drugs put together."

Where on earth did you get that 'fact' from Hasbeen?
Maybe from a medical lawyers handbook?

I think it best if you stay away from those nasty hospitals, and let the predominantly dedicated medical staff continue working at saving the lives of far more people than have negative experiences in hospitals.

I realise some people hate to have the truth pointed out to them, when they are comfortable with wearing rose coloured glasses...

"I realise some people hate to have the truth pointed out to them,,,,Sue.....truth is something people havent of heard or seen in a very very long time.

Its like religion, all are in control until mother/nature shows how and who,s realy in control. How small we have become.

BLUE

uog

I'm curious about your views on morality and substance use. You seem to feel yourself the subject of persecution because of tobacco use. Is your concern based on your belief that smoking has no effect on a person's health? Do you consider yourself to be addicted to tobacco, and would you feel that this was a moral failing were it so?

As a lung cancer researcher, I say go right ahaead and ban tobacco.

As a watcher of the news, I might suggest that banning tobacco will result in stronger product being sold on the black market, at unknown volumes, tax free, grown hydroponically under lights if need be. Given that the consumer will have a greater choice of providers, it may be that quality will go up, adulteration will be down and absolute harm done will be down due to more "bang" per buck.

I will not shed a tear for big tobacco, however. Their shareholders can go bust for all of me.

Good luck to prohibition, it will need it.

Rusty

Rusty, well why not make all of gods drugs becomes the, "USE AT YOUR OWN RISK" that way, one can avoid all callings to the matters.

BLUE

Suz I may have up set you in other threads but never intended to here or there, not all do not understand how hard your job is.
I need to understand,truly do, why some hold views that are, to me, so strange.
Fester asks OUG why he thinks as he does, I could never pretend to know the answer to that.
But here in his own post history you can find reference to smoking other than tobacco, in truth many do/have but overuse can do great harm.
I have noted insults from OUG watched from his first post here,tried to understand and welcome him.
Not easy some times but there are some thoughts worth looking at in his posts.
A bitterness and willingness to target others has ended my interest in his posts.
But have we noticed the wish that smokers be free to continue?
And the blindness to the costs imposed on us all?
Far more than one poster tells of the right do do as you wish.
Others say let them pay their own health bills.
We are better than that, never would do that, but should we sponsor self harm.

I'm right with you, 95% of the way suzeonline. But this, I cannot accept.

>>I don't blame the tobacco addicts for their habit at all.<<

That is the excuse that many smokers use. I did not expect to hear it from a nurse. It actually says to the smoker "you are powerless", when in fact each and every one of them could give up tomorrow. For ever.

It is also a variant of the pitch used by companies who sell products that are supposed to help you give up smoking. The assumption is "you can't help yourself, we know, so buy our chewing gum/patches/inhalers/microtabs etc". A few seconds thought will tell you that these companies would actually go out of business, if their products were effective.

So - like you - they perpetuate the myth that giving up is something out of the individual's control. It isn't.

It is as simple as... not smoking that next cigarette.

the prominant theme of the big be-lie
is about my stealing his money
..""Should we pay for others folly's.""

and the fact is far from it
he is stealing mine

he becan this war
knowing im a smoker activist

continually throwing up my FORMER use
of cannabis as some sort of talism..

and the addition of CLAIMING..not reading my posts[thus ignoring trying to reply to them...

its a clever stadgedy..but obvious to many

to reply fester do i think its addictive...lol
yes mate it is..in fact has been made even more addictive..as a deliberated policy

is it injurous..yes it is..[ya think they add sulpher to it to make it burn
then legislate adding in other chemicals to stop drunks burning themselves to death in their beds

yes mate its all they say and more
belly reads my posts..but resists replying them
yet he takes studious notes..to throw back into my face as he choses

this should indicate much about the one
who began this thread with the teaaser words..'nanny state?'

yes it is mate

'what do 'we' ban next'
lol mate you think yoyu and yer
mugg antidrug party ..are so omnipotant

so clever at red herrings
but i dont hate you..[as im dying i got no time to hate anyone]

not even the lobby..nor the legal drug merchants ..nor the docters that perscribe their adictive /destructive drugs ,nor the lawyer polititions and the anti-smoking lobby ..cleaning up on this colluded scam..to kill off smokers

i dont even hate those who ripped me off..[more about that later]
but for now im in pain..going to take the only drug i take [nicoteen]...and hope i die sooner rather than later..

i have seen heard felt enough pain in satans realm
im ready to move on

ya cant argue ..with those serving satan
cant even recall why i even botherd to try

it is worth noting
the last few words
of this post
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4306#109271

[its about the fat controler ..[be-lie]..saying he reads
but wont respond]

something that has become obvious
as previously noted..by his commenting on stuff i posted..but he claims not to have read..[or not read..'anymore'..lol]

the post basiclly advises bobbon on the new policy
no comment...[ie ignore them ..and we will go away]

its the scam thread
so i added a few of the last scams

i did mention the super scam in detail
but didnt mention the 2yk scam nor the birdflue aids swine flue tobacco scams nor the levey scams...
nor the other scams or the 6 levies from the howard fears years

but the list of scams are extensive..
if you bother looking for them

nbm is the latest
we voted for to the node
then got a 46 billion white elephant

soon its the carbon tax
and the levy...[its so sad you lot who claim to be so clever
dont keep note of these things

but its not your fault we get liars running destractions
did you lot even notice italy stock market is closed today
seems libia owns mabny italian shares

any wonder europe is staying silent..on the libia genocide
GOING ON NOW...[while the usa pres is on ANOTHER off season 'holiday'

its sad you all miss whats going down
ya getting continualy fed fear based scams
then asked to bailout bankers or greenies or drunks

i hope you enjoy your stay in these realm
where decievers rule the roost..serve their satanistic adgendas

my life sentance to this hell is near over
but yours is only just beginning

Ban tobacco?

It must be just an easy one to focus on, lots of good emotive pics and statements in the media about smoking. We can now live to 100 if we don’t do it? I’m not sure where the logic in that is.

Lung cancer isn’t a nice death? Then let a person choose at which point and how they die without it being a crime. I’m sure there are many types of deaths not blamed on smoking that aren’t particularly pleasant.

I actually have a very sensitive nose; in a previous life I may have worked making perfume. I can even smell if a person has a mild infection somewhere on their body and other things humans leak from them from quite a distance. Being in public is not pleasant for me especially around other women.

Tobacco really is not bad; the smoke it generates isn’t offensive. It’s funny how we’ve been conditioned so quickly to find it “bad”. As a kid it was a normal smell in a home, I’m a bit scared about how advertising can alter what we find offensive.

Can organic tobacco be purchased anywhere?

There are more obvious and more dangerous substances out there and I would appreciate it if the big brains in the world removed them first.

Alcohol and other mood altering drugs I thought would be more of a priority.

Addictive and unhealthy foods maybe and those crappy bloody soft drinks that make kids go nuts.

People with serious genetic defects being allowed to breed (just thought I’d slip that in).

Other chemicals, vehicle exhaust fumes, poisons in the environment etc.

STINKY PEOPLE!

And please, for the love of god – perfumed period pads and all deodorants.

I listened to an interesting interview on the radio last night.

Smoking has reduced from 35% 20yrs ago to about 17% today. The levels of smoking is projected to drop close to zero by 2035.

This enables smokers to wean themselves off the habit, and the government to wean itself off the its addiction to tobacco taxes.

oh dear [twofaced tony]..currently in parlement
'just said mates help each other
they dont tax each other'

this from him who gave labrats party
the idea of the extra smoking tax
[no doudt given to both of them ..by the antismoking lobby]

who now got subsidy for nicteen-gum/patches

but lets move on

here is some info re big pharma
[you know those with the big govt bucks/subsiodies globally
who control lawyers and laws..who pay big bucks for docters to study drugs and make reports or plot and plan..[who own the media..and are experts at sin and spin]

quote

Nearly all drug trials scientifically invalid due to influence of the mind; Big Pharma science dissolves into wishful thinking

http://www.naturalnews.com/031451_drug_trials_placebo_effect.html

A new study in Science Translational Medicine
has cast doubt over the scientific validity of nearly all randomized, double-blind placebo controlled studies involving pharmaceuticals used on human beings.

It turns out that many pharmaceuticals only work
because people expect them to,
not because they have any "real" chemical effect on the body.

As you'll see here, when test subjects were told that they were not receiving painkiller medications..even though they were*

*the medication proved to be completely worthless.

END quote

so tell me
what does a docter saying
'YOU GOING T0 DIE'

do to the mindless drones ..seeing the quack?
and who reek of smoke?

remember ..all you X smokers
how many times ..you went to the docters
and they said ..'YOU GOING TO DIE'

were they right?..
[brain-dead ..dont count]

(PhysOrg.com) -- Every year, millions of people are diagnosed with cancer - a remarkably high number.

But what about the flipside of those statistics?

That is, two out of three people *never get cancer,

and more than half of heavy smokers *don’t get cancer, either.

A recent study points out this overlooked fact,
and suggests that researchers might discover something by asking why so many people are resistant*.. to the often deadly disease.

http://www.physorg.com/news151840958.html

YOU MIGHT ALSO ASK YOURSELF
why govt media and your docter REFUSES to tell you this?

oh by the buy..the cure for cancer
[but why fight it]
is high ph

all you need to do ..to kill it[if your of the 1 in 3 who COULD get it
is take a teaspoon of baking soda[baking powder]each day
and the cancer goes away

cancer can also be sucked out of your body
using electrolisis...and one c cell battery
you hook up the anode to your body..[usually by sitting in a 'bath'..and the cathode to the cancer location

and it melts away

but no its more mobney to let people die long slow deaths
then get a donation off their estates..when they eventually and needlessly die

but then again ..some of us know too much
and are over this living scam
thus chose to let it be

and let the chips fall where they will
[you chose to be ill]
docters get their pay by study of the sick
they should be studying the healthy..to find out why they didnt get sick

but in the end its all about money
some will do anything to get their hands on yours

but you wont get bellies
he earned it...its his..he dont care who gets taxed..
as long as its not him..typical unionist thinking..me me me mine

oh...and if you wanna know why the war on drugs
is mainly a war on a plant

try this link
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=cannabis+cures+cancer&btnG=Google+Search

see if im ever going to allow my cancer to kill me
i had*to give up dope

but docters dont want people ..*not getting sick
so they support the war on a weed/plant
and those staying healthy ..by smoking dope

because you getting sick
makes them rich

its all about money
welcome to hell

and you thought govt was there for your bennifit
heck dont think lawyers[ie your leaders]..dont know this stuff
i wasted 10 years of nmy life telling them

believe me
they know

and still let you learn lies from deceptive adverts
aimed at you to get you into fear

to get more tax

thery dont just send the kids to die in war
recall the drug war..thats aimed at keeping you sick

*It is as simple as... not smoking that next cigarette.*

Ah Pericles, you mean as simple as losing those extra
kilos, just eat less. No need for Jenny Craig and all the
rest. No need for all those fatties in society, costing
us a fortune in health bills.

If only the human mind and how it works were that simple.

But nice try.

One under god:
Herein is my conspiracy theory for you!

...You apparently live in a world where a choice is going to the doctor. Where I live, going to a doctor is a recipe for starvation. Effectively, one runs the risk of dying from a doctors treatment or dying from lack of it. I agree with you: The decision is quite the conundrum.

...I am acquainted with people who live a life of addiction to a rainbow spectrum of substances. Many of them addictive pharmacy prescriptions, and needing that unaffordable visit to the local Capitalist stalwart (Doctor), for the purpose of repeats.

...So I wonder, with the anticipated free (Ho, Ho) issue of patches becoming available shortly for smokers, and in view of the facts pointed out by Shadow Minister and Ferster in these posts, that the incidence of smoking in the community is fast decreasing, (17% of the population), then what is behind the free (Ho, Ho) issue of anti-smoking paraphernalia.

...Should one take the cynical view, and conclude from observation and experience, the real intent of the medical profession is to enrich “themselves” from the physical suffering of the ever diminishing smoking public, by tying Doctors to a lucrative market of desperados returning through their revolving doors, being the gullible and conned smoker, thinking the Government actually cares about them and their health; but which secretly supports further rorting by Doctors now anticipating another windfall improvement to their “bottom-line”.

...Maybe the innovation exposes itself as just another masterstroke of political lobby by the AMA?

Personally I avoid smokers like the plague. Can't stand the stuff, but as much as I would love to ban smoking I would not go down that path.

As others have wisely pointed out, there are many activities humans undertake that cost others in supporting those endeavours including daredevil adventurers, overeaters, overexercisers, drug users, dangerous drivers etal.

It is almost impossible to ban an activity once it has been legalised or entrenched hence a lesson in why we should not legalise any other unhealthy or mind altering substances.

The ban on smoking in public places where the offending and unhealthy activity may encroach on another's rights, is only fair but a total ban would not work.

Help people to give up smoking would be more of a benefit to them and to others.

There is a difference, Yabby.

>>Ah Pericles, you mean as simple as losing those extra kilos, just eat less.<<

(I know you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. But I thought I might take you seriously for a moment)

Eating is essential in order to live. Smoking is not.

So if I were to say "getting slim is as simple as... not taking the next mouthful", you would suggest something a little less drastic. Like cutting down. Or cutting out carbs, or fats, or whatever the latest gimmick might be.

You would not have much success with a no-food diet.

Not in the medium-to-long term, anyway.

The problem with smoking is that cutting down the intake does not solve the problem.

The tars are still layering themselves up in your lungs. The acrolein and benzopyrene still attach themselves permanently to nuclear DNA. The carbon monoxide and cyanide will continue to cause the alveoli to lose their elasticity.

So whereas with dieting, there is at least a chance that the lower intake of food will have a beneficial effect on your weight, cutting down on smoking will not have a similarly beneficial effect on your health.

Cutting it out completely, however, does give your body an opportunity to effect some repairs. I would not normally use Fox News as supporting evidence, but their summary is quite succinct:

"By the first anniversary of your last cigarette, your risk of heart disease should be about half of a smoker’s. By your 15th anniversary, it should be about the same as the risk for someone who never smoked."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,229761,00.html

So losing weight and giving up cigarettes are two entirely different propositions, Yabby.

But you knew that anyway, didn't you?

I don't mind smokers. I have an old neighbour who has a problem driving from time to time. I often take him into town with me.

He smokes a strong roll your own tobacco. He always asks before having a smoke in my little sports car.

The rolling is not that great, as some tobacco is often spilt, however the smell of the smoke is really great. It is almost enough to make me want one.

I gather the smell of stale smoke is as bad as that of stale grog, but as my old thing doesn't have air conditioning, the windows are open, & all the fresh air means no smell remains

*Eating is essential in order to live. Smoking is not.*

Ah, but overeating is not essential to live Pericles, in fact it
might kill you. So my point is, why can't people just simply
eat less, if as you state, they can simply stop smoking.

Why people overeat or have that next cigarette, is far more
complicated then simple rational thoughts.

We are all just a little different, physiologically, so for some
quitting can be easy, but others extremely tough, depending on
many things. Like genetics for instance. Like brain chemistry.

Nicotine affects dopamine levels. You'll find that those with
ADHD issues, or those with schyzophrenia issues, have a far more
difficult time quitting, then perhaps a Pericles.

If quitting smoking was as easy as you claim, the average smoker
would not need 13 attempts to do so. The failure rate is well
over 90% and some of those are not hard core addicts. That includes
people with patches etc.

If you are really interested in all this, read what Renee Bittoun
has written on the subject. She's a professor, based
at Sydney University, IIRC.

IMO the overriding issue with smoking is that it does not kill quickly enough, if at all.

Now if there was a larger dose of arsenic mixed with the other chemicals, then we would have a ball game. Warnings on packaging would really be pertinent given that inhalation over a 10 year period definitely caused your death.

But for now if it is legal and by that I mean taxable, other than a prohibition on the age of the consumer, leave it alone.

Yabby:>> We are all just a little different, physiologically, so for some quitting can be easy, but others extremely tough, depending on
many things. Like genetics for instance. Like brain chemistry<<

Hey Yabby that is the most valuable thought you have added to this forum in eons, well said.
My only criticism would be that you should have replaced “like” with “such as”..lol.

Shadow Minister I heard that story too.
It reminded me I had thought about starting a thread here.
We humans are different are we not.
Never thought, for a second tax would be called us stealing from smokers.
And my beer is taxed just as much.
But to see doubt placed on if it kills at all stunned me.
Health costs surely, out way tax income.
Now once most of us smoked, we started as a fashion thing, surely few of us liked that first drag.
But we after seeing it displayed that way, smoking was sexy, cool, the thing to do.
I even remember young smoke in hand never drawing it into their lungs.
OUG I did not know until this thread you are a tobacco activist, am in no way taunting you.
Mate you speak as if you just may be going through a bad time.
As you go along in life except this, opinions are every ones right mine and yours.
You move yours around a bit, seeing things I never intended in my posts.
But NEVER EVER will I give my right to say much more harm than good comes from smoking.
Last OUG tell me, please, how I knew you smoked other substances, you Bragg about it often bloke.
Tax Tobacco ,almost out of existance, yes black market will follow ,but a big reduction in health problems will too.
Imagine how you smoke if it is not legal.

Belly,

Not just a story. I was surprised, but the state of California tried to sue Philip Morris and some other large cigarette producers for the increased costs to the state for health care. This collapsed when Philip Morris showed that the average medical cost to the state of a smoker was less than that of a non smoker. This was mostly due to the high cost of medical care as one ages, and the final year is expensive whether due to smoking or not.

For example lung cancer is relatively cheap, as it is usually untreatable, and relatively quick once diagnosed.

The more cynical would suggest handing out cigarettes with the pension.

pericules please be more carefull about your statements
others just might[will presume theyare fact
when they demonstratably are fiction

to wit.."The tars are still layering themselves up in your lungs."
wrong in so many ways
i think they are called fibracules..[but regardless of the name or the mechanism..lungs have a flow of mucas that 'cleans' then from dust [and tar]..etc

''The acrolein and benzopyrene still attach themselves permanently to nuclear DNA.''

yep so too does the benzine ..in your fuel
[you know that known carcinogen]...that replaced lead in ya car..!

go figure how that was ever allowed eh?

just think ..we didnt want kids to get dumb from lead
so we give them cancers instead...

[only govt via lobby gets something that stupid passed as law..!

'The carbon monoxide and cyanide will continue to cause the alveoli to lose their elasticity.'

at least be honest about dose rates used to prove this
using egsagurated dosage ..is one of their means to get lies made into fact

while were on that dosage rate
there is a thing with medicines
to wit..doses needed to cure rate

ie how many people..NEED to take a drug..to get one cure
i recall the dntc number for stroke meds is 50/1
50 people need to take it ..for ONLY ONE CURE

big pharma hates the dntc number
[and even worse..the drug has the same affect as one suck on a joint]
and the joint has a dntc cure ratio of 1/1..[it expands the arteries..thus the red eyes]

now lets look CLOSELY at ya quote

"By the first anniversary of your last cigarette,
your risk of ...*heart* disease*...LOL
should be about half of a smoker’s

yes certainly written by masters of spin
[joe hockey ..just said the same words ..in parlement]

i go to listen to real facts

oh and bellies
i buy it on the black market now
so do as you chose..ban it mate..i dare ya

im not going through a bad time
just cleaning up some wrongs ..in this world before i move on

"... hence a lesson in why we should not legalise any other unhealthy or mind altering substances."

I disagree Pelican, I look forward to the day a decent mind altering substance is legalised.

I'm sure they have some available but if people were happily addicted to a health neutral and calming substance I suspect many large companies would go broke overnight.

I would agree with you Jewely if the effects of the substance did not affect other people in any way or create a huge swell in the numbers of those with mental illness, psychosis or depression.

So far it hasn't been invented yet.

Shadow

You are quoting research by a tobacco company that suggests a benefit (reduced life time health costs) from smoking. What a surprise. But there is a large and growing body of research suggesting otherwise. e.g.

http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/6/601.full

And then there are critiques of the Phillip Morris research. To quote one:

"the correction of only one among numerous errors in assumptions and calculations in the Phillip Morris study leads to the opposite conclusion: Instead of savings of $150 million per year, smoking drains at least $373 million from the state budget annually, nearly .8% of the Czech gross domestic product."

http://ntr.oxfordjournals.org/content/6/1/181.abstract

Hey, but if you still think your opinion to be correct, then you could always show the forum how much cheaper health insurance premiums are for smokers. Oh, that's not right, but because you dont live as long you pay less overall on average. And if you get lung cancer, well that wont cost much because you will be dead pronto.

Wow, what a selling point. Why aren't the health insurance companies using it?

YES PELICAN...LETS TALK ABOUT PHYCOSIS
the statistics confirm...
2 out of 100 users of cannabis get phycosis
[the pr spinners have been correct?..right?]

well what they DONT SAY..!
is for NON SMOKERS..its 4 in 100
[so 2 less than non smokers...but they wont add that bit]

see thats the trick

same with the latest advert..
[i caught the end of it just tonight]

i think it says in words..something like
every cigarette is one step closer to CANCER
BUT WAIT A MINUTE..remember the link i revealed a few posts ago?

ie ONLY ONE IN THREE..can even get cancer
ie two in three CAN*not..!..get cancer

so the current lie is rebutted..!

see the scam?
sell the propaganda in schools or on tv
telling half truths..and out and out LIES

little wonder SOME get parranoid...
is that the afect of the drug
or nerosis ..GENERATED by fear..

[by the lies/spin BIASED pr blurb?]

see how it worked with dope
now they done the same trickery ...with tobacco

using the full weight ..of govt propaganda mercandising
to declare WAR..by the lies and lies of WAR

its really a war...it worked on the drug war
now you seen it work on tobacco

[and you wonder why ..im over the bullllssshhhhiiiit]

the name of the gamer is govt declaringf a plant a drug
then CRIMINALation of one percent of the population..[mainly kids]..every year...WHY?

so people get cancer..as the ones using the cure stop using the cure..and get made into statistics[without even an autopsy]..ie without proof..or by distortion of selective facts

like 20 times STRONGER DOPE...lol
what my eyes get 20 times redder?

see thc...works on thc recepters..once every recepter has a thc..THATS MAXIMUM DOSE..no more thc recepters..[plus the affect is physiological..[it expands the arteries..[thats the rush feeling]

my kids tried it once
and said it didnt do anything

[because my smoking it
had allready passivly given their thc recepers
all max dosage possable..the thc had no vacant recepters..
to attach with..thus either got excreeted or stored in the fat cells..lol]

no overdose is EVER possable
no deaths EVER..

its fat soluable..
thus gradually disipitates ..over a few weeks..
so no withdrawel...either..being stoned is all in the mind..!

heck tobacco smokers ..used to use it
to get over nicoteen addiction..

i didnt know even that my kids tried it
they only told me a few years ago...
[thats when i figured it all out]

and the fat solubility
ensures its able to be detected for weeks after..even if only inhaled passivly..even worse there are 5 vegetables that have thc [so just eating a mixed salid means you got thc..

the whole thing would be a joke
if it wernt for all the lies

lies they now used with tobacco
because lies makes fear
fear campains work

big pharma is tied all over this
to make it worse they even patented thc now
its called marinol...[only on subsised perscription]

AFTER SAYING FOR YEARS
dope has no medical bennifits

[just as nicoten has no bennifit]
or caffeen..etc..at least
not till big pharma gets a govt subsidy

but why bother
if you swallow the spin
your part of the problem...how hard is it to do research

its the same thing re evolution
there are no gap species..but the spin [liers say there is..and people who dont get science..swallow the lies]

ditto they [media] talk of species..
but evolution [science] says genus

but ignorants
dont know the difference

read dumbing down education
its deliberate policy..

to build the perfect soviat worker
smart enough to work hard..and die young..
but not too smart..a follower..not a thinker..ie a sheeple..[wage slave]

OUG,

You go right ahead and smoke all you want.

I recommend you smoke home-grown, pesticide free rollies with filters.

Good luck.

Rusty

OUG <"ie ONLY ONE IN THREE..can even get cancer
ie two in three CAN*not..!..get cancer"

That observation may well be true OUG, however, the other 2 out of 3 smokers probably die from heart disease, emphysema, stroke, DVT, COAD,
... the list just goes on. I have seen it all.

I agree with Rusty though, you just keep on smoking, and pray that your mistaken beliefs turn to reality.

One thing you need to know though. Diseases caused from smoking do not always cause a premature death or a quick death. Many elderly smokers live for years sucking on a home oxygen tube...

Tobacco kills it does most know it, few deny it.
The money spent on defending it by multi national tobacco firms clouds the waters but it kills.
Some, claiming knowledge and understanding we do not have should understand,they just could be wrong, totally.
So tax or laws? tax it out of existance my answer.

I didn't say it was easy, Yabby.

>>If quitting smoking was as easy as you claim, the average smoker would not need 13 attempts to do so.<<

I said it was simple.

"It is as simple as... not smoking that next cigarette."

The point about giving up being "simple" was precisely that. No monitoring fat content, no counting calories or carbs. Just a straightforward rejection of the next cigarette.

Of course it isn't "easy". Nicotine is after all highly addictive, and withdrawal symptoms can be significant.

But in the end, it is very simple.

Binary.

Yes or no.

Just ask any ex-smoker.

you must remember that some will profess anything for money

its likely these things go out to tender
ask why the danes got the tender...this time

more deciet
[from the festering link]

quote''We included a broader set
of smoking-related* diseases..[lol]
than previous studies....''

in other words..included EVEN more diseases
that can be ATTRIBUTABLE*..to smoking..[see next quote]

so including say diabetus..
[or item 4 ALL DISEASES}..

[see next quote]
scews their numbers..

[also noted ..*"never smoked"..
not in study..[see later notes]

aINT THEY SOO CLEVER..?

hey fester...!
if this links spin ..was valid
WHY DIDNT THEY APPEAL?

or submit it..
where it matterd..ie AT THE COURT hearing..!

but a judge would see through the spin

HEY..*they still lost
the facts of the court case...stay unchanged..!

you cant change the diseaes ATTRIBUTABLE*
without fully explaining WHY ..or how come ..*they are..[now]..[attributable*]

most judges say 50 percent attributable
or 5 percent etc..or 100 percent or NONE...!

then this selector mechanism

""Extensive sensitivity analyses were performed
to ensure*.. that results were robust ..to the ..*assumptions*.. made.""

LOL

assume all you like
assumption...is not science...!

please note the 'impact factor'
is 2...[out of ten]

to wit thats just above out and out/lie..[0]

then this great one..lol

QUOTE>>
""..comparing the health costs ..of continuing* smokers ..and ex*-smokers""

..NO NON SMOKERS...!
get it?

how valid is it
if it dont compare SMOKERS..to NON SMOKERS..?

think why
*you chose to be ..so blind

you lack critical thinking ability..?
you need to believe the spin?

ya gotta love this

NOTE..
[the last one]

quote..""Costs of the Danish population in 1999 were studied
within ...*four disease groups:"""

NOTE 4* DISEASE GROUPS
now read the last '*group'

LOL

""
1..cancer (ICD-10: C00-C99),
2..vascular disease (ICD-10: I00-I99),
3..respiratory disease (ICD-10: J00-J99)
and
4..‘all other diseases’*..."""

lol
your slip is showing
as is their spin

see the joke?
come in spinner

fess up ..ol boy
you do see the joke..right?

it would be funny
if you lot didnt take this scam/link.. seriously

PLEASE..
..learn to think criticlly*..
or the lies will only continue..!

[this is egsactly why bellies
stopped posting links long ago]

knowing where the lies *come from
makes them easier to rebutt

also of intrest ..is the age was truncated*.. at 89 years
[must have skewed ..the numbers ...*they NEEDED to CREATE*]

it still ONLY compares
EX smokers..with smokers..!

so apparently there aint...* no obvious difference
between the un-mentioned*.. never/ever smoking group

wonder which came closer ..to smokers?
ex smokers/..or never smokers?

i suspect ..*never smoking and smoking were much the same
thus never smoking...was deleted*.. from the 'study'..

in other words eliminate the outliner
and thus the never* smoking
..never made it ..into the final edit

talk about selective spin

its just sooo typical...
spin for the gullible

preaching deciete ..to the decieved
..who love being decieved

if it feeds their need ..to hate
or just cheat..

i thought the danes would know better
the great-dane ..would be ashamed..but thats only a dog

this link was more a dogs breakfast
or something some dane cooked up..by cut and paste

looks like the 'danish paste-y'..
is the heights of danish abilities

suzie clearly cant read properly..
all cancers..not only the smoking 'related'..
how many ..got adverse reactions ..because suzie is dislectic?

2 our of 3 DONT [cant] get cancer sue..any cancer!

how does this mean ..something else will kill the 2/3..
that is attributable to their smoking...only by docters saying so

yes we all die ...3 out of 3
but what..NOW according to you
ALL DEATHS ..ARE SMOKING RELATED?

im glad your not still pretending to 'care'

re suzies intitial speak diseases
she saw the result*
but not the cause* of

your bias ..presumes they are all smoking related
just like the quacks putting up their..
cause of guess.. death numbers

unsure if ol rusty is serious
so will ignore his encouragment to die
via filter..
recalling they used to be made ..from ASBESTOS..!

if he is sincere ..im not smoking 'good' tobacco
when the price increase was flagged
i bought a kilo of store tobacco

and a kilo of some other stuff..off the web ..called tobacco
[it went mouldy..so i added in a hundred grams of mint
and homegrown tobacco about 200 grams]

mushed the whole lot together
and thats what i now smoke

the mould ..in the tobacco ..has given me lung problems
[black mould is a known killer..but as pericules has said
store bought has got benzine and other mutagenes in it too

see i hate govt ..so much im willing to die early
some might chose to call it suicide
im calling it murder ..by govt taxation

i aim to be the first actual death..'by smoking'..
who actually did die from the act of trying to smoke

but my web dealer is having supply problems...
paid my three hundred a kilo
and havnt recieved my kilo..giving him a few more days..

then may chose to name names

[edited]
4 now

i paid my money

for me its no joke

*tax it out of existance my answer*

They are already doing that Belly. Clearly you are out
of touch with the price of tobacco these days. But
its not as black and white as you might like to see it.

Last time I checked, a packet of Winfields was around
the 17$ mark locally. At that kind of money, it would
not surprise me if smuggling boatloads of fags becomes
far more profitable then smuggling boatpeople, so
most likely a smuggling industry will grow and prosper.
So will home grown tobacco.

But personally I think that we are already enough of
a patronising wowser society. There are alot of old
pensioners out there, who have little to live for
and their couple of packets of smokes a week means
a great deal to them. That now costs them 10% of
their pension. I think its unfair to them, to go
robbing them blind. Let them be, for christs sake.
Because you don't agree with their perspective of life,
does not mean that you should not tolerate their
perspective. You, of all people, who claims to care
about the working man.

I just think we are getting things a bit out of whack
here. I know of nurses who gave up nursing
, tiered of being attacked by
patients either drunk or on speed or ice. Yet there
we go hassling a few old pensioners about fags.
Not just discouraging, more like hassling to the
point of persecution!

*Of course it isn't "easy". Nicotine is after all highly addictive, and withdrawal symptoms can be significant.
But in the end, it is very simple.*

Ah Pericles, just like losing weight. Eat less, yes or no.

Sometimes yes or no, just ain't that simple.

Oneundergod, please go and get some help.
I hope life improves for you.
Suze.

I agree with that Suzeonline.
Yabby, then do we stop embargo's on all nonmedical drugs.
Do we stop painting pedestrian crossing on the road.
Is there then any room to protect us from our selves on any issue.
And tell me yabby do you think tobacco tax covers health costs?
I am aware of the costs,my Winny red days saw 4 cartons plus 4 rolly packet and 40 mindget monopoles cigars each fortnight.
Bought on pay day same shop,$208 cost every time, half a weeks pay, I was on fortnightly pay.
30 years ago.
I gave it up in pure hard cold turkey, have seen many suffer trying to and dieing early because they failed.
No high moral ground here I want less to suffer want less to die and want tobacco sellers to find another way to make a living.

...Suzeonline, please remove the "patches" from your own eyes!...

...Three cheers for the AMA! Keeping all tethered to the surgery….One way or another!

*And tell me yabby do you think tobacco tax covers health costs?*

Indeed they do. The worst thing for the taxpayer would be, if
you lived to be 95. In your last 2-3 years you'd get sick of
something, generating costs. Meantime you've had 30 years of healthcare
and pension, perhaps 5-6 years with Alzheimers in a home. What
do you think all that costs?

*have seen many suffer trying to and dieing early because they failed.*

Ah, now you are gettig warm, Belly. If they failed perhaps rather
then torture them into quitting,as you plan to do, perhaps its
time to find out how to make it easier for them to quit, which
is basically about brain chemistry etc.

We spend nearly zilch on that. Instead we install a Quitline,
where a good deal of the staff don't have a clue. Then wonder
why people don't magically quit.

IMHO Champix will make a difference, because its the first drug
that actually deals with the brain chemistry issue, rather then
keep the addict chewing on nicotine.

But if somebody became addicted whilst we encouraged them to smoke,
and now wants to finish out their life with a puff or two, so what?

You will die too, just like the smoker, maybe sooner, maybe later
and most of the time it won't be that pleasant. Trying to clobber
them with a proverbial 4 by 2, because they don't agree with you,
is hardly the way to tackle this issue.

onlinesuzie
offers her idea ..of sage-advice
'get help'

so suzz
who can help
to put the nanny/state back in its box?
ie get their greedy-hands ..out of my tobacco?

who do i go to to stop do gooders
trying to lobby..*a ban on my habbit's
but not theirs

who do i go to..*to stop the moralisers
who think they know whats best ..for me
by taxing me ..to an early grave?
and ongoing fear campains

so who do i go to
to find the server that put a web-site on line
to steal my money?

who do i go to..[to get help]
re the anz acting as co conspiritor
in [perhaps]stealing my money

how do i find out
what the real issue is with supply

who do i see about lies in the media

who do i go to
to find out who's rotten-teeth
are compulaory ..put on my tobacco packet?

who took the photo
of a bloated pigs artery
[filled with margerine..govt pays ..to put on my fags]

who do i go to to see
what facts sustain the lies of 15%
or 15,000 or all the other statisical lies ..sold as fact?

i been to see the cops
they dont care

you no doudt
want me to see some drug-docter [legal pill-merchant]
to medicate me into a drooling fool
..who is thus as ignorant as others seem to be

how do i let go
of people ...[busybodies]..wanting to put their hands on my business

how do i even begin
telling of the barrrrtardry
others do ..to others..with impunity

how do i convince ..a deluded person
im more than paying ...*my own way

not taking up the bed
..reserved for him
he paid for it
let him sleep in it

get help ya-self

the only help i need
is get govt's greedy hands..out of my pocket's

get govt to stop passing ever more moralising laws
and paying for adverts utttering threats and fears
on my tv
and smokes packet

go in peace
NOW let me ...smoke in peace

your smoke-screen is bothering me
ps perfume reeks worse than smoke

the nanny state is out of control
they put flueride/chlorene ..in ya water
[it kills bugs..what ya think its doing to you]

flueride by itself is useless...
[it needs other minerals to calcify into teeth/bones]
but it pacifies the population...thats what its there to do
it was the first thing the romans put into the water supply..because it works

but then it makes us kill milk's enzimes
via pasturisation...[for our own good]
but do the research on whole milk..[people dont get sick]

but spin them bull and they swallow it as fact
[just put up a fear campain and the docile sheep love you]

think of all the gmo they pump into kids
[thats how they make 'vacibne' nowadays
the usa even pased laws so we cant sue the subsidised drug merchants giving our kids dumbness;autism..look at them numbers..huge]

govt gives us transfats..
lets multinational suppliers supply us with poisend food
faties abound because govt protects them..and oppresses its own captive dumbed down people

First they came for milk maids
then they came for the kids
then it was the dope fienmds..grown up kids
then it was the smokers

next the media
then the teachers,
and I didn't speak out
because I wasn't a teacher.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Bloggers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Blogger.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Apologies to Pastor Martin Niemoller
but curses on the demon autocratic capitalists
multinationalist passport holders doing the dirty deeds on us all..

go now..AND LIST THE POISENS
in your medication cabnet or in ya garrage..or under ya sink

check out the aditives put in ya food
or the poisens you spray in ya yard..or on your body

and then think what DID.. you do
when they came ...for you*

C'mon, Yabby. That's just silly.

>>Ah Pericles, just like losing weight. Eat less, yes or no. Sometimes yes or no, just ain't that simple.<<

"Eating less" can mean anything from 1% less to 100% less, which is far from being a simple decision. And depending on which number you pick, the effect will be different.

With cigarettes, it is binary. Yes, I'll smoke a cigarette. No, I won't smoke a cigarette.

I know you actually understand, because you're not stupid.

But I also know you like having the last word.

So, off you go, it's all yours.

That program both I and Shadow Minister heard, was I think on radio national or the ABC.
It gave figures of smokers as 17% gave an end date in about 2030, by that time it said we will have stopped smoking.
Other parts of the world too.
Not Latin America, not the African continent, sales are rising there as western world combats health problems with smoking.
And promotion is increasing there
I do not think promoting early death as a welcome side effect is humanity at work.
I see the I smoke so it is harmless group as ,well look for your selves.
Yabby in your case,the one you put to me,elderly who just must smoke, want to smoke need to, lets put for them only it on the health care lists, like other drugs including grass can be, not my best out come.
Hard to win, but worth the fight.
Nanny state? I find references to such weak and not related to the reasons people intervene in such as smoking.

*Eating less" can mean anything from 1% less to 100% less, which is far from being a simple decision.*

Come on Pericles, now its you being silly. Most fatties know
perfectly well that those 3 servings of ice cream were too much,
that the 4 extra cream tarts are overdoing it. If they halved
what was on their plate, they would lose weight, just like they
do if forced to halve it, by lapband surgery.

The problem is not about straight rational thoughts, its deep
inside that brain, eating as a compulsion to feel better. Like
I often point out, rational thought is only a part of all the
activity going on in the brain.

Its that following of compulsive feelings that makes it so difficult
for some to lose weight. Following compulsive feelings is why
smokers have such difficulties quitting.

In terms of brain chemistry, the two are actually linked. With
both in the end, its about rational thought or following your
feelings, one or the other, yes or no.

Smokers get a joy from dragging on that smoke, fatties get joy
from biting into that cream tart or whatever.

Gamblers get high on the adreneline rush of the dice, some women
go shopping to feel better.

The demons of addictive behaviour come in various colours, but
in the end they are all linked.

Pelican:”I would agree with you Jewely if the effects of the substance did not affect other people in any way or create a huge swell in the numbers of those with mental illness, psychosis or depression.”

I suspect nature already did invent it Pelican but I’d be just as happy if a synthetic one was created by our pharmacy gods. I am avoiding thinking about all the sci-fi books and movies that have warned against just such a substance going horribly wrong though.

Thinking of smoking… my older sister used to smoke 3 a day. No idea if she still does, I kinda find that perfectly healthy. If she lived out in the country (which she does) and maybe also avoided car fumes etc I’d say she will outlive me.

But I find smoking three a day or even just one along the lines of not over-eating etc. It’s never what we do is it – it’s when we overdo it.

And because I have googled myself out today I have forgotten which country I heard about that recently made it illegal to smoke tobacco anywhere. I will go try find it because I’m wondering what sort of political system they have….

OUG, you can take my comment as nastily as you like.

If you don't believe smoking causes cancer, then you don't think I'm being nasty. If however you consider that I am professionally certain that it does, then I might be being very nasty indeed.

I was not talking of asbestos filters, but of normal ones. You are welcome to improvise yourself from cotton, cork, hemp or whatever takes your fancy. They reduce particulates but not vapourised nicotine.

Sadly they also don't reduce vapourised benzopyrenes, produced by burning just about any plant material, and incidentally the model carcinogenic mutagen found in coal tar.

It forms adducts of DNA and proteins, causing mutations and overt cellular damage. If the somatic mutations that accumulate don't add up to a bingo for you (yet), the constantly irritated damaged lung tissues will gradually and inevitably become emphysemic a very grim "smoking related" condition that is no fun at all.

Live long enough, smoke enough, sooner or later it will get you, and you will have been better off not smoking.

If you are going to smoke, I'd still say go for untreated, pesticide free home grown. Chuck out the mouldy stuff, specific carcinogens in plant moulds, like aflatoxin, are quite aggressive, usually targeting liver.

Rusty

I am truly concerned that we find some who think only in terms of personal freedom.
I suspect RC knows a lot more about this than me.
But is it not true we have been told damage to unborn children can come from smoking.
Yes know it comes from using grog and other drugs the subject is tobacco.
Once we grew a lot here, may even have subsidized the farmers.
Now not just here, world wide it is shrinking in use and few doubt it harms many.

i will let go bellies number changing from 15 to 17%
[ask wether this is globally or locally]..and how it was determined

we know china is a growth area..[he didnt mention them]
i too have heard media and the last time i heard it was near 30 percent

regardless of how it is determined
smoking sales is useles..many have curt down their use
so half the sales dont translate into half the smokers

then he said..''$208 cost every time,..half a weeks pay,.
30 years ago.''

mate no wonder you gave-up
thats obesity type smoking
[i spend 30 per fortnight..[on my chop chop mix]
one rollies pack ..a week ..4/5 packs of ciggie papers]

also funny
was the definition of 'smoker'
hawke and obama ..are teqniclly 'smokers'
so many closset smokers not in the numbers
and then there are the bums..smoking others ciggies

then...many did as i do
and havnt officially bought in a shop yet

its easy to play the number game lies
its easy to tax people to death
to use propaganda to get a new tax cash cow

its easy to pick on those who cant fight back
se how brave they were when the miners fought back

its easy to hate those..'others'
who you regard as scum

i gave up smoking a long time ago
but the world is so stinkey..
i had to go back to numbing my nose with smoke..
just to be able to like people..who stink with all sorts of chemical pheramoans...fake perfumes cheap oils bad breath..and gosh...'body oder'

how do you non smokers stand the stink?
how do you block your nose
as close as you blocked your hearts and minds

[oh ..i realise
you just hate others
and pick them off one by one]

till you got no one left you despise
yeah like that could ever happen...lol

you got ya hate
i got me smoke

see the joke
its all smoke and mirrors
that you hate in others..you hated in yourself

we have long seen ..how they add transfats to processed food
or caffene to sugar water and CARBON dioxide ..in 'soft' drinks

we have seen even how they add a few ciggie butts ..to chewing gum
and get a govt subsidy from ..the medical 'benifit'[legal drug subsidy trust fund]

noted this one

DEA to legalize marijuana chemical for Big Pharma
but keep it a crime for everyone else
By: malterwitty

Today, yet another example emerges as the DEA moves to legalize THC in Big Pharma's pills while simultaneously making it illegal for anyone else to grow, sell or possess THC.

The DEA, you see, is working to change the classification of THC from a schedule I substance (like street heroin) to a schedule III drug (pharmaceuticals).

So if Big Pharma grows its own marijuana plants, extracts the THC and puts it into a "pot pill," those pills will be perfectly legal.

They're already FDA approved, actually, when made with the synthetic version of THC....MARINOL..[but it dont works ...lol..only the real stuff 'works'..

But if a guy grows the very same chemical in his backyard, then extracts THC from those plants -- even for his own personal use -- suddenly he's guilty of committing a federal crime and will likely be subjected to an armed raid by DEA agents.

even though a plant is 'only' a drug
by legal manuvering...
ie as listing the plant as a drug
deeming the plant to 'be'.. a drug..[ie a lie]

anyhow i know you will be as troubled as i
cant believe how that really happend

http://www.naturalnews.com/031489_DEA_legalized_marijuana.html

well it happend the same way
this topic was created to 'happen'

by some pretend do-gooder
putting it out there
then selling their idea..for their mates to make an advantage

or destract abn activist from posting on more important issues
ie keep me distracted so i dont talk about 'other' stuff

and it works

here is just a few
i have been distracted from trying to fix

http://dailybail.com/home/goldman-sachs-owes-you-3-billion.html
http://dailybail.com/home/geithners-crimes-through-aig-will-the-truth-come-out.html
http://dailybail.com/home/bombshell-report-goldman-sachs-got-billions-from-taxpayers-t.html

http://theintelhub.com/2011/02/24/homeward-bound-water-as-a-weapon/

http://theintelhub.com/2011/02/24/mass-grave-sites-across-canada-to-be-surveyed-by-international-tribunal-prime-minister-harper-to-be-summoned-to-answer-charges/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-24/plague-kills-u-s-scientist-after-first-lab-illness-in-50-years.html

http://www.truth-out.org/main-street-movement-erupts-as-thousands-across-country-protest-war-on-the-middle-class68039
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA9KC8SMu3o&feature=player_embedded

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_40c3dfbe-402c-11e0-8c68-001cc4c002e0.html

http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/677-e2-wire/145913-report-on-climategate-clears-government-scientists-of-wrongdoing

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/02/its-not-arab-revolution-its-global.html

http://knucklz.com/2011/02/24/wy---big-brother-at-wyoming-schools-legislature-considers-filming-teachers.aspx

but the powers that be know
i cant be everywhere
so sent the big bellie
to tie me down

its up to others to explain
http://whatreallyhappened.com/

but who cares right
im up to my butt in butts worrying about you
and all you want to do is bring me down

ok you win
the spin wins

what next?
do i ask for my money back?

do i name names[who might be totally innocent?

like the website server that served..to tricked me
the anz bank ..that took my money
the person who owns the anz account etc

i told him of this topic
and respect ..he is being decieved
i will encourage him to add in... who tricked 'him,'

however it goes...i expect to be dead sometime this year
either by smoking or trying to simply smoke

death will be such a relief
so much better than this hell full of liars
and those who think lies true

ahhh see the joke rusty
my father lived to be 52
im now 56

i been the oldest living male in my line for over 20 years
none ever made it to retirment..EVER

you see we got the prefect genes
we contibute compulsory super..
YET not ever live long enough to collect ANY of it...not even once..

yet we must subsidise you lot
who get longer life sentances

we who live long and prosper
because we of the weaker genes ...*die young

you think to hurt me
but im beyond pain

i been rejected all my life
i have only lived as long as i have because i smoked dope

my family genes have a heart deffect
i didnt realise the dope was easing the presure

i stopped breeding
or even having sex long ago
so mutating ..this corpses gene pool ..means nothing

get it sunshine?

you cant hurt me...so many have tried
i will be dead..and bellie or you can have my bed
you can have my super contribute..and have my compulsory smoking taxes

you can have it all
i will be silent..before you even notice
i might rate a byline in the local paper

loner died
a few years ago
was found today..by police
enforcing a warrent for letting a plant grow

but they were 10 years too late

but remember

that old fool refused to hate
many hated to hears his truths
but life as it shall be
will give you your proofs

no flowers
no grievers
no mourners..please

just put me into the dirt
its near worm feeding time

OUG,

If your plan is to die sooner, smoking will help that.

Others, enjoying life, even with modest means, might like like living, seeing the next generation etc. No smoking helps such people.

I think well-grown dope is probably no worse than well-grown tobacco.

Both produce mutagens in the smoke that affect not particularly your gonads (except in proportion to their weight), but the somatic cells of your body.

A reasonable standard model of cancer has cells of a given tissue (say lung) being washed in mutagens (say smoke). Individual cells may accumulate mutations in any gene whatsoever. Of the twenty or so of the most important cancer-related genes, if that cell (or it's daughters, which replace it and inherit it's mutations) accumulates mutations in enough of those genes....Bingo!

Even a susceptible individual might take a long time to accumulate mutations. Another resistant one might take not long at all. The process is stochastic, and anybody counting on family history to justify low risk might yet be one of the "winners" in the cancer lottery.

Anybody who *wants* to live is strongly advised to not smoke. Anybody who *wants* to live but cannot give up is advised to filter and smoke unadulterated material, or seek alternatives, it *might* make a small difference.

It is clearly the case that you insist on doing this to yourself.

Many others smoke for reasons that are very poor, and less vehement. These could be helped by yet greater barriers to access.

Rusty

oh rusty ..all smoke isnt mutagenic
why are you..so loose with facts

much depends on the size and shape
of the given smoke-particle

which is dependant..on just what is
being burned poorly..to make the 'smoke'

the micro-particulate from fossil-fuels
are particularilly dangerouse..

mainly because they have jagged edges
and are micro enough..to cause entry past the body/defences

it is noted that low-temp burning also is a danger
and burning any plastic ..causes the creation of dioxen's

in short
its not as simple or clearcut as your wordy spin indicates

much like the flawed modeling re globalwarming
[sorry climatechange]..also sold to us by quack-science

take the so called modeling.. excludes such basics as el nino
and la nina..not to mention the sun-cycles or earth-quake's and volcano eruptions ..all of which cause cooling not warming

but you educated types like to say science..
and watch the sheeples eyes close...
selling the mugs a simple santa clause theory...like carbon causing warming..so lets tax carbon

but others agree ..there are more greenhouse type gasses
than carbon..like methane..
[from home composting or leakey gas wells or mining coal
100 TIMES WORSE...* than co2]

but like el ninas are conveniantly deleted
to keep it simple
to get their adgenda
..to wit a new tax..through the public process[and into guilt/blame/shame..thus geting their new-tax via lies

docters are much to blame
hell indeed ..is full of em

sadly so too is govt
add-in accountants and ex-lawyers..
you got most of govt ..exposed as serving an outside adgenda

and thats the game ol rust buchette
[as you well know]

so its union shills..and bloggers selling their opinion
it still dont make either bigger/truer than god

spin is spin
however much its spun

docters still write opinion.. and cause of death ..{smoking
and there you have ..the root-cause of this lie
made into fraud statistics

that is enritching the anti-smoking lobby and media
and big-business..[even govt purse]

who peddle their perscribed drugs
to get at the govt purse ..via their new latest taxes

tell me why there were fewer deaths
when 90 percent were smoking

something smells

One Under God give me the benefit of the doubt here please.
Not provoking you mate.
I TRULY am concerned for you.
Ask others too note you need help lets not taunt this bloke.
Reading between the lines you got ripped of buying chop chop, raw tobacco, probably untaxed and illegal, thieves are grubs mate no matter who they are.
Not sure about that bank, left that one years ago,they are not fair dinkum with our money, cost me $1.800 to learn that.
Mate I have seen you in far better moods, happy full of fun and it is bad to see you so down.
You speak of death, fight it mate every day get the little things that bring happiness done.
I may not be here for long, but every day I fight every day is fun and no I am not dieing not yet fight bloke.
Now my reality's are different than yours but those thirty years ago the black dog followed me every place I went.
Sat on my shoulder too, but I can tell you this self help is the strongest weapon, I gave up more than smoking back then.
Give it a go OUG worth the effort.

Tax it out of existence. Costs the nation billions a year.

rusty we have had these debaits a few times
qwhile it is ok for bellie to chose to be ignorant
you [who claim to train docters] cant have the same right

thus lets inform the lie
cancer has at least 7 types
and very many causes

even the 7 types have sub types
lung caner's..for egsample has 5 subtypes
each having different causes and cures

to lump them into a ceneral heading of cancer
AND SAY THEY ARE ALL SMOKING [related]..DEATHS.is a provable lie

its the same with heart disease
but to attribute them ALL to smoking statistics is again pure faud

we can go through the list pick any smoking attribtable..'cause'
..and chances are docters are ignorant[i blame their teachers]
thus hide their ignorance.. as well as their misstakes
under died by smoking

i recall study of numbers way back in 2002
there was deaths by drinking
[ie directly drink related]..not attributable
[they went to smokers]

anyhow the number for drink deaths was just under 5000
but this was AGJUSTED down to 2000
because of the cLAIMED benifits of drinking
[a glass/nip] per day

now we dont need to guess
where those 3000 DRINKING DEATHS..went to do we?

but thats the game
and wether you chose to be ignorant
or are just blogging under a number
it is still a PROVABLE LIE

but no lawyer nor docter
willcome out and say that
because they are all quacks

think of a broken bone
docters 'set-it'
then allow god [natures nurture]..to fix it

or a common cold
take the docters jabs and pills
OR simply DO NOTHING
and in 4 days it goes away

quack
quack

about as usefull
as a former union official
or a random number quack quack lol

OK OUG you have had more than a fair go more than once tried to help.
You do need help, in one thread you post word perfect no spelling mistakes, better put together posts than me.
Then the rambling rubbish you put here.
It to me is clear you need help, I never walk past a chance to help.
But you jam your biases and rants back in my face, those, quite a lot,who no longer read your posts, if they wish to wade past the rants can see you need help.
I am aware you can not avoid the rants, the lol thought you know every thing, so bloke no more not a chance, you do as you wish, bit a hand extended in friendship if you want.
But this ex unionist if he saw you diving in to bins for a feed would have given you his last dollar.
Sorry but you need that help please.
Good by, say want you want, you have proven not to be worth the effort.

Belly babe, don’t worry so much.

OUG doesn’t need help. I don’t see rants but a cadence he walks to. The honesty can be abrasive to us that have been media addicted far too long.

Smoking is a quibble when such large things are in the world. I think that we have been sidetracked somehow to see it as an issue verges on the obscene. It’s like a vehicle to see just how us sheep can be influenced and keep us focused on a subject that distracts. There’s a few of them we like to whinge about that don’t matter but they keep us busy.

Did anyone notice the Ch-Ch buzzword… ? QLD media buzzword was “inundated” during the big flood. They used it about every 7 minutes. Christchurch got … c’mon anyone watching heard it over and over again.

Umm.. smoking gets, death, kill, big C blah blah blah. Doesn’t make it real but some smells sure linger Jean.

Jewely perception is hard to avoid.
I see a different world than you.
A different OUG than you honesty can be Brutal.
I rather think others in my real life know I can be that way, say it like I think.
I do, you know, try to be of help to those who need it, get hurt often.
Do not however see me as a soft touch, I have leaned in my lifetime self help works best.
OUG is free to say as he wishes, like you and me, in all our posts,we can not power control what others think of us

im both happy and sad [bellies]
happy that anz is seemingly back

sad that now i feel conflicted revealing
the part they MAY have played in scamming me

if my tobacco...bought and paid for
via the forementioned money changer... hasnt arrived by wed next week i was going to reveal the complete scam
[i feel has been facilitated by many parties]

it began by visiting this web site
[detail deleted]

and placing an order
on monday i recieved the payment details
[account numbers etc deleted]

and was told 2 to 14 days delivery

two weeks later [18 th feb]
i wrote this

quote
To: [details deleted for now]

it has been 14 days since i placed my order
12 since i paid in full in cash
5 since you promised it would be in this week..

i am reluctant to wait much longer than tuesday
to begin actions to recover that i have paid for in good faith

it its a supply problem with part of the order
as long as i get 900 grams of tobacco in total
..i will be fine with that

if its some other problem please advise
and we shall see what we can work out

i have resisted many presures to keep on smoking
will be most upset ..at any who force the choice on me
by actions.. not above board or worse

please advize me as soon as you can
if i dont hear anything..my anger only gets the better of me
id rather avoid those negative emotions ..if possable

as you may gather
i feel put upon..and thinking the worst

yours
johan hendrick

expose continues on wed
govt cant help being insane
but humans can reason things out
if not in private..then in public

thus thank anz and others
for allowing freespeach to be honestly voiced

special thanks ..to belly who raised the topic

i will reply belly
even though i know he claims not to read..
thus why bother..[right?]

but i know he does try
and is trying
so i must try too

firstly and importantly
its great to see our jewels back in her rightfull place..[at olo]

and darling.. i am grieving the tradjic loss of life in nz
[and as usual angry at govt ..for being so dumb as to build multistory buildings ..on swamp ground ..known to liqufy during earth tremmors

im also shamed i havnt given that issue the attention [and censure] it truelly deserves [but maybe its gods will im here rather than saying the wrong things to those who grieve]

its likely i would be saying what to others would seem absurdities
[like it wasnt by gods will; because god diont do that sort of stuff up[only men can claim full ownership of the disaster that was completly predicable.. and finally bore its bitter fruits

also i would bec saying stuff like we are spirits...sentanced to one life term that far greater ..than these foul worlds egsist ..in the land of the ever light and love..

where we all end up going to
eventually

nz is unique its place in the grand sceme has gone quietly un-noticed
there are no greater than the tiwis nor the land that convolutes most clearly the delusions of evolution

i will be spending much of my eternity life
in the greater of the southern lands

please give them my love
i know your giving them yours allready

anyhow belly

you must realise my brother
some take sympathy as attempts at paternalistic supirority
i hope you too can see the difference between my sympathy with new sealand and yours for me..

i should be gratefull
and realise your only concerned about me
you wish to save me from what you feel is a destructive me

but mate... i dont need anyone saying poor you ..to me
in fact resent any one..!..trying to climb on my case
by fake sympathy

and steal my CHOICE..directly from me..

..[to wit tax me to death..
especially via many lies]..
or worse ..ban my only true life companion

some chose* to keep poisen snakes
or CHOOSE*..to dive off tall buildings
or CHOSE race cars..or box each others heads to pulp

or CHO0SE booze
chose pills
or chose to be ill..[poor them..!]

go feel sorry for them..!
go tax them,,!*

you dont get
that this life is a 'life' sentanance
[thats a real word..check that in ya spell check]

where spirits
to ignorant to learn by love or egsample
are sent ...where they cant hurt others...
only each other..[as we can clearly see..just by turning on tv]

[this place is where ..we outcasts from eden end up]
this is where god sends missfits
its a jail mate

we each got a life sentance
some serve their life short
others serve their jail
[exile time ...long]

when our times up
we all go back home

god mercifully wipes out our memory of edon
many dont even know ...they are in the place
where the trouble makers dwell

dont know
they are really in hell

i do i known it for a long time
been trtying to tell folks ..they are chosing to dwell in hell

but hey some dont get what is being revealed
they think a prison is all we got

thats sad mate
really sad
i fel so sorry for my fellow inmates
who think only in mortal terms
jail

in real jails..they give ya tobacco [two packs]per week for free
or give you even in private/prisons enough to BUY one 30 gram pack per week..

mate i lived a life[sentance] here
im near getting parolled

yes..you can blieve your felow..inmates
mate they are liars..or they wouldnt be serving their 'life'sentance here..

get it?

no i forget
you dont read my posts

sadly i must read yours
can you at least help others

that...in your* opinion need new taxes
need help curbing their greed

like miners?
or bankers?
or polution

or ALL* the greenhouse-gasses?
not just cannabis and carbon

I did read them bloke, every word,felt insulted again but forgive you.
See I am what I am read and watched in fear for you, no man should stand alone in bad times.
OUG you talk of your parole coming soon, are you unwell? hope not.
You wrongly brand my concerns ,seem to think I am being paternalistic, far from it mate.
I had to be father to my siblings from an early age, then to some of their children, concern for others is not a bad thing.
Remember school yard bully's, some only young but the cruelty?
I stood again them as my younger siblings became targets.
Debate, thoughts, freedom to think as you wish are a given.
But we humans do carry on ,me too, about my side is the right side.
In truth we all get it wrong.
You talk of my ex union official days, OUG you will never know ever how much concern and help not related to work a good one does,the drugs the relation ship break ups the after hours calls from crying women and drunken men.
Do not take my right to care away.

its nothing worth the worry belly

i boycotted docters alltogether 10 years ago
when i went to get a boil lanced
and got a lecture on smoking
[or rather not smoking]

i decided ..when my time is up...its up
and no great loss ..nor any fears

im sorry for making you feel upset
at what you percieve name calling

[my name's.. are spelled wrong ..all the time..
and some of the takes on one under god i have read
..right here on this forum...
[well it dosnt affect me..
so i presumed others ..let it slide as well]

stick and stones rule
[i figured as a former unionist..[able to guts-illy walk onto a worksite and hold the bosses to account..

i just figured [it seems incorrectly]
that you would laugh it off too

as to my health..its going down fast
2 weeks ago when i did my bin dive run, i only needed to rest 4 times
today i had to rest 10 times.. [fell down trying to open the door] then nearly fainted 5 or 6 times and finally collapsed into the shower

anyhow after half an hour i was fully recoverd
and at no time passed out of conciousness

mate smoking is the least of my problems
who knows how i will go next week

[the only sure thing is i will have [then] no tobacco
as the supplier with my cash isnt answering emails]

its funny suzie says get help..
[im presuming see a docter]

because i refuse to see a docter
they cut off paying my disability pension..

[its funny if you think about it]

smoking is the only thing i got left
im only alive because i raid the bins
but it looks like that will kill me ..before smoking does

anyhow next week [arround wed] i start naming names
if im not banned before them

only delivery of my tobacco [or refund]
or banning will stop that

but heck i mightn't live that long anyhow

dont grieve
its my choice

im over seeing the spin
wreak its ugly fruits

post script

please note

the in [brakets]
on this post
Posted by one under god, Saturday, 26 February 2011 6:43:53 AM

was by me
i repeated the post at the advertisers wanted topic
and it was removed for being off topic

i put it there
because iit related to our sponcer

anyhow as they have been 'named all ready
i wont need to name them again

when the [in braketts]..details get revealed
hopefully my supplier sorts out his suplier
and things return to normal

i knopw he isnt to blame [for non supply]
nor for the tax that meant i needed to stop bying store bought tobacco

he is totally innocent
except if he holds onto my money
and dosnt deliver

and this was facilitated by our sponcer
i will be going there first

to get my money back
and hopefully get a list of others [who also might have been defrauded..[if fraud it turns out to be]

i then plan to name the site
thus the server

unsure if i need to go to the police as yet
[they tend to nmake only trouble for me
everytime i try to complain]

no wonder crime stats appear to be going down
thery simply speaking refuse to take the details
so of course the reported crime numbers are falling
mainly because police are policing drug policy..not real crime

real crime must have an injured party
but stop them complaining..they dont need to do a thing
and thus can go on jaunts to nz or the islands to teach them how we do it here,..by not doing policing only policy

ie victimless crime

Mate if I lived there,and you agreed, I would love to take up your fight but it is not possible.
My health is not a lot better,and before asking you to see a doctor I must admit to not seeing one for 6 months.
Mates are threatening to take me to one.
A visit is happening for me this week ,give it a go please mate.
This is my last post in this thread it is at a stand still and out lived its purpose
All the best Belly

best of luck with going to docters
my mothers former partner went to the docters[at her insistance to check if he was getting cancer from his smoking]..[january last year]

after batteries of testing poking and other indignities including prostate egsamination he was given all clear ..early march

june he got a swelling of legs...docters said thombosis
he was eventually hospitalised and other complications soon developed[one of which involved surgery]..on splitting him open they closed him back up without doing anything as his body was riddled with the big cancer

no they didnt say which type
they gave him a few days to get his will etc in order
and he then 'quietly' died..drugged to his eye balls in his sleep

thats a phrase many will hear in hospitals
so much so in aborigonal concentration camps [out west]
refuse to go to the big house ..regardless of how sick they get

aNYHOW MATE
SEE YA ON THE OTHER side
as they used to say...you will be much loved in heaven
but then again most of us are

i feel sorry for those people taking 10/20 PERSCRIBED types of drugs a day

but then again i feel sorry for those dying/'smokers'
[like me] paying compulsory tax*
..right up to the moment ..we draw our last breath/*[gasp]

and then be told 'we'
are stealing others beds or monies

it hurts to be called a bludger
but with smokers its only too easy for others to hate us

look were dying as fast as we can

even ex smokers [who spent 300 a fortnight much of which was tax [WITHOUT REPRESENTATION] taken by threat and fear of force

they let us get cancer
[reportedly it takes upto 20 years to devolope
so how has quitting helped?]

and even if the tests [in january]..say you dont got cancer
your death notice [in july],says you do

so who do you trust
god...
[its a short list]
ya cant even trust priests or lawyers

both got no clue
but i allready said ..all i can say

..for now

They discredit themselves these medical professionals. Before a rather boring little procedure involving a scan nowhere and nothing to do with lungs, chest etc it was advised not to smoke for several hours before coming in. What a load of twaddle.

Oh but I did find out about “gap” and “no gap” doctors. Ripped off abloodygain. Given the life and limb endangering constant botch ups experienced at the hands of doctors if they told me smoking was dangerous they’d be the last people I’d believe.

Hope you all know not to fall for the old “you’ll be sedated” line they give you these days in the accident and emergency department. This lie depends on a drug that is supposed to make you forget what they just did to you.

And I suspect having medical insurance is slightly handy when popping in to the dentist for a small filling once a year and very little else here.

I’d like to die of the consumption; whatever it is… has a nice old fashioned ring to it.

Trust me when I say trust no one OUG. :)

i been watching them jewel
watched them mutilate my teeth

felt them rip them out one by one
as the 'new' cleaning method
that ripped my teeths fillings out
did its dasterdly job

[only one extraction per visit]
only twice a year...now its put ya name on a list
and they will contact you..[but never have]

till all my chewing teeth are gone

i watched the dog lady on 10 at lunch time
she showed a graph on stress...its not as if they dont know how stressfull adverts are that lie..or the thought of a new tax etc
or the affect of not having a smoke as you feel to need it

but they do know
its all a deliberated policy
just this one topic...should we ban it
has added enough stress i cant even fully get into this issue as it deserves

let alone the other lies like clobal warning tax
built by the same manipulation and officially endorced science lies

anyhow i need a smoke
15 percent is a lie...[there are very few non smokers in the town camps]..the rich can get duty fre on their anual trips os..the poor or self retired..just get forced to pay as we go..or pay as they earn

its the guilt trips i really resent
and the lies

paternalistic nialists
serving capitalists
and oppertuinists

even racists
needing a ...'type'.. to hate

at least..[reportedly]..the church
[ch] in ch/ch...hasnt said the quake to be an act of god

now if only they started truthing ..about the afterlife
and the lie of a judgment day.. and cleaned up their own act...

wishfull thinking
this would still be
the doorway ..into h or h

Jewely I got the message.
You are wrong
not the fun lover I once knew and even admired.
Lets leave it mate
goodbye good luck and may you find peace.
No further correspondence please.

Apologies Belly, I replied in another thread to everyone before I saw you did not wish any correspondence specifically from me. If you could do me one last favor before we do the whole ships in the night thing - explain to me what message you got?

Stressful week maybe and a few hours ago I stepped up and did the right thing. Or maybe I didn't. I kept someone alive who I honestly believe is a bad person and will continue to spread misery just because he still exists. Plus he's a smoker. Plus he probably would have lived anyway if I hadn't done anything but now I don't know that.

Is it our right to step in and decide? Might be something OUG can shed some light on. Arrghh... I'm going to have a smoke and go to bed.

it can never* be wrong
to do the right-thing

i can only read between the lines
and..dont need to know more

who are we to judge anyone?

lets face it ..the good guys
can only..'chose to do'..their good
if there is evil..that needs to be fixed

jewel you are..who you are
does a mother judge her children?

does not the holy-bible say ..."do unto others
as you would have them do unto you'?

what would you have them do
in the same case?

dear heart..please know..what we feel in this world
we take with us..into the next...everything will get revealed

there is no shame..in your acts of love/service..
that save one...[who is gifted..by the all wise good[god]..to live

there are untold millions..who stuffed-up in this life
yet in the next..[maybe even because they*stuffed it up here so badly]..yet are the light of love..in the next

who is to judge..
god dont judge
why should we

its said our very best inherant nature..is revealed
in the instant*..of an emergency..you were tested and passed

if they go on..and destroy the world
is for them to account...not you

you can only be held to..the things you chose to do
i see no fault in you ...nor shall any..who know your heart

lets believe for a moment..this person was satan himself
but for him..asking of eve..the question

'did god forbid'?
we all..wouldnt be here..

dont judge yourself
what we are inside..is soon revealed to all
only you can make you..dwell in the darkness

let you ...be the love
dont think about it..
just feel good about it

and helping any
god gives to live..
is not in any way ..able to be judged wrong

except by those themselves feeling guilt
..about other things

[those who think ..doing the wrong thing..
for the right reason ..ever could or can fix that wrong

THEY judged

*wrongly]

people change
they have a sudden event
that wakes them up
think of nobel...

he only thought of ..the nobel/peace prize
after reading his own orbituray..
naming/shaming him..as the father of bombs/death/war

life is about freewill
its about giving us each..'enough rope'
we learn here that freewill ..decided most of our lives events

egsamples are better than words
i have a few troubles that i have allready mentioned

my licence is suspended for life..by means of spers
because i refuse to pay a 65 dollar fine..

this means i cant drive
meaning when i have to go anywhere..its by my own efforts
if these efforts end up killing me..that was my choice..

sure there are events that led up to this
like my feeling put in jail for letting a plant grow
and govt calling me scum ..and trying to tax me into an early grave
declaring war on me..

or the other lies cast upon me
re huge compulsory base-acces charges
to services ..i barely use [power phone water health etc]

..but in the end ..it was my choice

as i have effectivly got no licence
i dont see any valid reason to pay rego on my 4 vehicles
and considering that i only use a vehicle 18 times a year...

[using less than one tank of fuel]per year
..i see little reason ..as to why i should pay third party insurance.. the same as those who use their vehicles 24/7

so im an outcast

my own govt sees it fit to tax me ..to death
declare war on me personally..

set me up for further theft
by allowing thieves ..to steal my money with impunity..
using the instryuuments of state[web/banks/fiat money..etc

just trying to aliviate the stress
govt has helped..*install.. into me..
im further victimised..

but can CHOSE to sink into victimhood and blame
or chose to rise abouve it all

as can we all
sure life wasnt meant to be easy
but it also wasn't..meant to be this hard to 'do the right thing'..either

and there is the rub
if i hold blame ..against others
this spiritually ...*ties my soul to theirs

if they end-up in hell
im only there ..because i refused to let it go

so i let it go*

[this might not seem so ..on wed]

but heck im only huh-man
and have a lot of anger
..im better off letting go here
where it was brought up...

[thanks belly]

ps

comon you guys
your both better than this

we of the light
..shouldnt chose*
to fill our souls ..with darkness

is getting a group-hug ...*too much

remember
as we forgive others
so to shall we TOO..be forgiven

[as we too
forgave those
who sinned against us]

Thanks OUG, I should stop over-thinking my actions. Three people standing by remarked they would not have done what I did for someone like him at which point a number of bad thoughts took root.

I suppose I expected a pat on the back instead of looks of disgust and suggestions I’ve probably now got a disease. I was feeling a bit sorry for myself and really appreciate your kind thoughts – now I feel a bit ashamed popping into OLO for a cup of tea and sympathy.

But lets not forget the person in question is a smoker so he probably would have joined the death by tobacco stats.

dammmmit..
YOU DONE NOTHING to feel shame
people like to cast blame
only because they didnt even try to help..!

think about a what if..
if those sorts go to heaven...
mate you sure wouldnt want to go to the same place..!
as them...sensative judgmental types

their hate will draw them into the same place
as those they hate..

you on the other hand ..have now earned a spot..in the place where people help others...and dont judge others...[where do you think hell really is?]..its within..knowing you helped when needed

their dark thoughts naturally lead them to the dark place
where such dark thinking needs to go

and forget the guilt tea's and sympathy
we need to be able to vent..thats what olo is here for

your also got that extra burden
..of what if i now get sick..let it go
worry *never fixed ....*anything

your body has inbuilt defences
saliva kills any poisen ..that could raise any realistic fears

we have been deliberatly made fearfull..
simply so the weak ..have an excuse...* not to do anything

if you make people frightend..they keep their fears for as long as they let the fear bring them down...

shove it..
its not your fear[dear]

dont be ..chosing to let their fear
put fear into you...life is what it is

nothing more nothing less..in the end its not
what we said or thought but what we did for others
when we did.. or didnt ..try to help someone..who clearly needs help

if you did nothing
would you now ...feel better?
or worse...forget it ever happend..
look at those who ..even now ...need you to just to be ..you

XOXOXO
OOOOOO
XXXXXX
OOOOOO

love is all we need
all we need is love....love*

OUG Belly knows it’s in his hands. I can respect his wishes to not communicate without understanding why if that’s the way he wants it.

The dude I helped has returned from hospital and already yelled some rather nasty abuse at me so I’m pleased he appears full of beans. I doubt he has a memory of me being there.

I give up I am now going out the back to eat worms. :)

Nah I’m all good OUG, if I had to do it all over I wouldn’t know how not to. Eventually nothing new will happen and I will have worked out how I react and why without second guessing myself so much.

He hates me, I’m happy I did it anyway now I’ve talked to you. xox

OUG,

As I said, you go right ahaead and smoke all you want.

Did you note that most forms of lung cancer also involve irreversible genetic damage to the cells?

Did you note that several of them can be traced to damage to particular genes? There is no reason that the rest will not, though the genetics may be subtle.

Did you note that DNA is damaged most specifically by the mutagens specifically known to be present in tobacco smoke?

That the genes damaged in cancers are a subset of all genes and all genes are potentially damaged by smoke?

Did you bother to note that while particle size has an impact, it has more impact on where in the lung the smoke deposits, rather than on the likely contribution to cancer? Parenchymal adenomas and bronchial epitheliomas both kill.

Bah, collect your own cancers, analyse them yourself, compare the general type of mutations to those found in in-vitro exposures of cells to smoke fractions, compare the adducts formed from naked DNA and smoke to those in lung samples, the "mutations" formed by replicating adducted DNA with those found in smokers lung samples.

Go on.

I state of my own experience that tobacco smoke causes damaged DNA such that replication or attempted cellular repair will result in permanent somatic mutations, the general type being that found in the tissues of all smokers, and of the same types found in the mutations of cancer-specific genes of tumours of smokers. I further state that genes carrying such mutations are found in a large number of cancers of all types, including those of smokers, and that when such mutated genes are present in germ lines the affected families have cancer "syndromes".

I don't care what whinge sites you frequent OUG. Smoking causes cancer in anybody if they live long enough and smoke enough to give it a chance. There is no "safe" form of benzopyrene, or nitrosamines, or pyrolised phenols, for anybody. Smoking speeds cancer formation in the susceptible and makes it possible for the lucky to be less so.

Good luck.

your a funny boy cathiter
if i could smoke all i want..this wouldnt be a topic

do you know how insane irreversable damage is
the whole body is fine..

its the fact that the mutated cells arnt fine..
thats the problem

simply kill them.. or stop the sukkers from division..
and its reversable because only the mutated cancers cells [the cancer/tumer/mass..arnt 'reversable'..killing it [them]..kills the 'cancer'..

could YOU please be scientific..
and give authoritive SOURCES for what your selling?

but mate lets talk about the other spin
fed to govt members by the drug lobby corrupting the govt libery
[many govt members in sprouting their distorted lies give credit for their facts to govt research...lol..to wit proopaganda fed by liars into the govt libary

trying to get a subsidy
for their latest nicoteen replacement drugs

in fact yesterday yet another one was approved
seems the chemical drug industry has taken over nicoten addiction
[and they are the biggest lobby]..thats the lobby pushing all these lies..and as you sem to be a spokesperson for the perscribed drug lobby

lets go with your questions
before revealing more spin spouted as fact..yesterday in govt
chief ammoung which must be one million smokers wioll die in the next ten years..[considering only 15 percent smoke out of 21 million..how much spin is in that one

realise 15,000 times 10
=150,000 NOT ONE MILLION

govt members histeria mate your lobby
has done its perversion of govt process well
for what ol buddy..for cash from govt taxes

how come we need to know details re carbon tax
yet smokers dont get the facts when govt puts in a new tax law
that tobacco is to increase 25 percent abouve indexed inflation[every year]

so that alone will get rid of smoking
and assure your drug supply industials ever more custom
who then will be hooked on subsidised drugs..[subsidised by who..smokers]..till they all give up

then govt will need a new tax
on you..!

cause all smokers will be
on your mates new l;atest..biggest adiction[nicoteen]
you lot ..took over the tobacco industry..by lies

now own the drug..nicoteen..

and got ..the plan IN PLACE..
to tax it out of egsistance

except for that ..supplied
by your mates..with govt subsidy..

perpetual addicts..subsidised
by tax payers[govt]...lol

the chickens will come home to roost
on this huge ruse

so that let govt cash ..supp-lies it for free
god bless govt subsidie

but one million smokers of 15 percent of the population
that attributes 15,000 actuually dying now..if that isnt joke enough

its taken you 3 days or more to get a reply from ya masters
so lets see what they came up with

..''Did you note that several of them'[ie several of the 7 goups of cancer?..or many of the other subgroups of cabncer..remembetring there are many cancers

...''can be traced to damage to particular genes?''
yeah mate thats basic stuff
[it took you 4 days to find that?

""..There is no reason that the rest will not,""
mate get back to ya mates...thats a lie
remember..only 1 in 3 ..can even only..get cancer
two out of 3 NEVER WILL

but notice your qualifier...lol
GIVE PROOF sunshine..!
""though the genetics may be subtle""

[or opinion..or spin or destraction ..or who cares
give proof this is the case in all of us
not just the one third..*perhaps*...lol

""Did you note that DNA is damaged most specifically by the mutagens specifically known to be present in tobacco smoke?""

in such micro quantity numbers
they claim 7000 is present in tobacco
but the same can be said [or more]..
from the sweat on your hands..

how your masters find 'cures'
is via a bank of known chemicals in ya chemicals bank
[arround half a million of em
and test the required results..to see what works*

its fully automated..[they dont care what the chemical is..
only what it does..so though they say there are mutagens
dont mean nothing..NAME NAMES BRO..lets pretend you got a clue?

""That the genes damaged in cancers
are a subset of all genes ""

yes not all genes mutate via the mutagene
thats why only 1/3..get it?

thus this next quote is a pure
provable
LIE

''and all genes....lol
are potentially* [lol].. damaged by smoke?""

make up ya mind..

smoke..
or mutagenes..
or nicoteen
or tar
greenhouse gasses
weopens of mass destruction?
wtf?

please get your spin straight mate

NAME NAMES

which mutagenes
mutate which genes

SPECIFICLLY..you claim the science highground
PRESENT FACTS
not opinion

how/why..
whats the cure

one million..are said to be going to die*
[in only 10 years]..lol
hurry up mate

your a gene queen
just like that lot
selling the global warming tax sceme
or the wepons of mass destruction..
[you are ..pens of mass destraction]

its obscene..

re your particle size
yes i know
so you say that causes..'Parenchymal adenomas
and bronchial epitheliomas"..

so tell me are these cancers
the result of ciggie smoke..
or other non taqxable non banned industrial smokes?

i shouldnt ask dumb questions...
i know they are caused by die-sal..[diesel
and woodsmoke and indistial polution/s and coal smoke.etc

not persons personally
or pasivly smoking mums smoke
but passivly inhaling industrial smokings

..yet these are ATTRIBUTED
to ciggie smoking.

you sell-out ...science people ...are too clever by half
add that ..with add-man spin..and govt lobby
you lot are ..the only real
and present danger

you get what they you lot target
ie govt cash

by any means foul or fair
you lot get..however loose the science fact
or lies/ or loose the truth..you put your spin arround the issue

and no one knows
what is true anymore

OUG,

you seem to be operating under the idea that I am involved in a conspiracy.

I told you, I know these things for a fact of my own experience, and I have used reasonable terminology to state them.

Go read some real literature on the topic.

Your rantings are not useful to my understanding of cancer, you are again trying to play word games about something that occupies people of greater ability for lifetimes.

If you know so much about cancer, go fix it. Chemicals are available to most people and if you know a fraction as much as you claim you can make your own. We used to have to make our own preparations of enzymes, nucleotides, organic substrates and antibiotics, so you are surely up to it. Don't worry too much about the law, I don't think you'll be punished much for revealing a simple cure for cancer.

It seems you only know how to avoid "rules" for the self-serving indulgences of getting cheap smokes and making your comments tiresome to read.

If you want to know anything concrete about cancer, just ask, or drop in to any lab studying such. Any junior student will be able to assist you, I should think.

Rusty

intelectualised name calling
isnt doing it for you catty cathy

re the cure..these i have allready posted earlier in the piece
that you now try to make some point..now
is obviously revealing you cant even read ,
let alone lead in educating us regarding the issue..

we note your quicker reply this time
but note simularilly how little info is presented by your ravings

you have previously made claims to be a teacher of docters
your defence of the sellout nmedical industry comes as no surprise

that big medicin is cleaning up
from this censure of smoking ..is clear

as the list of
subsidised* stop smoking quack fixes
..grows accordingly long...many will in time see its all about getting a govt subsidy for their nicoteen replacement products

as the smokers gradually stop paying tax
and get on the other side..of consuming govt subsidised drugs
the worm turns..and other means of raising the required cash will reap its ugly fruits..

no good can come from lies
and many lies have been created by the big pharma lobby
so called 'big tobacco'..is down to 3

anti smoking groups
seeking their bit of cash
number in the hundreds..if not thousands

thats the real lobby
running govt acts..

acts that will convert their lies into cash
and earn their servants a place in hell..the place most docters and lobbists politions and spin merchants all go to..in time..

they all care about others habbits
curb others habbits

but never
curb their own lusts

anything born of lies ..just cant end well

well now..tomorrow
we name names

lets hear what was spun in govt yesterday
all quotes from
http://www.openaustralia.org/debates/?id=2011-02-28.44.2

first lets attack bellies 15 percent

from Craig Thomson [ALP}
""smoking rates in Australia..down from around 35 per cent
to around 18 per cent ..to 19 per cent today*."?"

willing to admit your wrong bellies?
WAKE up mate..someone is lying to you..!

here is the clever bit media hasnt told us of

""the legislation..
included increasing tobacco excise
by 25 per cent above normal CPI adjustments""

thus every year*
the price goes up 25 percent*
not just once..EVERY YEAR*

when people wakeup to this
who knows what will happen
its just too clever*

who else has ever gotten this treatment

recon they will get angry?
were they told?
fully informed or even consulted?

would you be happy if they did that cleverness
..to unionists?

with work hours?
or beer or grog..
why do you think they wont?

this worked..if it worked once
it will work again..and again and again

now lets hear from the libs[Sharman Stone]

""We have seen a drop in the number of Australians smoking from 30.5 per cent in 1988 to 16.6 per cent in recent times."?'

so just in two speakers we got 18 percent and 16.6 percent
depends on which lobby spun the numbers eh?

NOTE*.. NEITHER SAID 15%

""15,000 Australians still die from smoking related*.. diseases""
smokeing related..
if based on science fact
there should not be these loose buzzwords*

but here is more

""on the other hand we ignore the harmful effects of alcohol and the advertising of alcoholic products.""

""we ignore another product, which causes serious health effects. Alcohol causes serious problems for family members in terms of alcohol fuelled violence. It causes serious problems with accidents, lack of productivity and non-genetic birth defects in children. In fact, foetal alcohol syndrome is a serious problem amongst Australian children, particularly in some Indigenous communities. That condition is a consequence of the mother consuming alcohol during the early stages of her pregnancy.

The sad thing about the permanent intellectual and physical disabilities that are manifest in foetal alcohol syndrome in the newborn is that this condition is totally preventable.

If the mother had not consumed alcohol during her pregnancy the baby would not have been born with permanent, irreversible intellectual and physical handicap.

Surely a country like ours must bite the bullet.""

ha ha booze gets it next
suck it up while you can mate

next alp Michelle Rowland

"" Western Sydney, where most of my electorate lies, experiences some the highest rates of avoidable deaths from causes amenable to health care.

This research shows 77.4 per cent of males under the age of 75 will die of avoidable deaths.""

this means all of them
not just smoking attributable*

""A study undertaken by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare in 2007 compared lung cancer* mortality rates..""

note the quick change from a general population statistic
to a specific one[to wi SPIN]...

""This study found that people in Western Sydney experienced the highest lung*cancer mortality rate..""

ie inner city polution..!
pwetrolium product particulate

""when compared to the aforementioned regions, and this is why I have a special responsibility to my electorate to support this bill""

clearly ..she dont know of the other
TWO highest*causes of lung-cancer...

[wood-smoke and diesal particulate..[soot]

next
alp ...Kirsten Livermore

""2.9 million Australians smoke each day""

and we hate them
cause they dont elect us

we control them..we tell them ..what to do
because they are only ignorant smokers

and we are clever lawyers
slaves to spin merchants and drug merchandisers wanting ..a govt cash cow..who will soon be looking for their next project..

""we also added nicotine patches
to the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme*""

""recommended by the National Preventive Health Taskforce""

should check out the board members shares ownership,
or who they really work for..

alp Geoff Lyons
former administrator
at the Launceston General Hospital,lol

""in my home state of Tasmania
there is evidence that smoking rates have increased* despite decreases in national trends""

""50 per cent of the Tasmanian Aboriginal
adult population ..were found to be current smokers""

yep tax the poor

and you thought
they were allready 'extinct'

""The move was not without community debate..""
yeah right..i wasnt asked to debait

""smoking rates cut from 30.5 per cent in 1988
to 16.6 per cent in 2007""

numbers seem all over the place

""as the minister said in her second reading speech,
from 30.5 per cent in 1988 to 16.6 per cent in 2007.

But we do know—..
We are talking about 16.6 per cent of Australian's""

"" We know as federal members
when we go to a railway station to hand out
our pamphlets—some would call it propaganda""lol

""The Cancer Council of Queensland has advocated strongly""

""Each year nearly 21,000 Queenslanders are diagnosed with cancer
and over 7,000 Queenslanders die of the disease.""

ok ..so ban it in qld
THEY HAVE HALF THE NUMBERS..!
in one state alone...lol..blame it on labrat spin..[anna blight]

why dont the number add up?

""there are nearly three million Australians smoking.""..

then in the next breath..""10 per cent;
that is a reduction of about a million smokers each year.""

he certainly dont get the math correct..!
see how thery are confounded by their own numbers spiners?

""Cancer of the lung
is one of the most deadly killers of both genders""

we coverd the TRUE causes a few pages back
but big petrol big coal/gas..dont want us talking about truth

but when were all non smokers
then we will search out for the real causes
and reverse engeneer..back through the spin..to get revenge on the liars..[ju-liers]

""the record investments*
we have undertaken in antismoking social marketing campaigns""

lol yes they did their lobby well
got the extra cash from you
thats what its really all about

""that you can see when you watch the media""
yes the media ..cleaning up from running spin

we know advertising buys their loyalty..
the certainly would not.. reveal the spin,..it brings in too much revenue..,nice govt cash..[sellouts]

""The changes will not be popular with everyone""

but heck
no one hears them
let em die

..anyhow they pay tax
..till their last day

so our lobby
gets their subsidy
and advertiserrs get theirs
the media and big pharma gets theirs
and the anti smoking yes they get theirs..[each has a voice]

but not smokers

""We do anticipate that there will be some opposition to even these types of amendments, but we think—and I am sure the minister has made this plain to the large tobacco companies—that it will not really have much impact on tobacco companies’ activities. They will continue to sell their product;""

and pay their taxes
and yours too

""Those retailers will be consulted;""
but not smokers..lol

""we will not do this
in the absence of having some discussions with them""

as well as our other stakeholders
but not smokers..stuff them
tell them to quit

and thats it

""I really welcome
the establishment of the Medicare Locals.

..the idea of funding and targeting services
in terms ..of not just local diabetes care,..lol
but also some antismoking*.. activities and targets.

I think that is an opportunity for the Medicare Locals in my area who work with primary health care, particularly doctors*.

We have got the psychology clinic attached to the University of Queensland, where the GP superclinic is.

But improving patient care
by dealing with antismoking activities in our schools,
is a good focus for the Medicare Local which will be established.

I think this is a great opportunity for the new Medicare Local to undertake ..some antismoking activities by advertising

and really reaching out with doctors,
allied health professionals and nurses
in the schools ..and the various groups.

The Prime Minister made it plain in her press release
on 22 February 2011,our new guidelines for the Medicare Locals,
would help health practitioners.""

do what?

""..through developing integrated
and coordinated "services".

I can think of no better activity..
than to undertake an *antismoking activity and coordinated campaign.

I think this is a good opportunity to do that
because it will get doctors and allied health professionals..

with particular expertise..in this area,""

quite a collusion
of organised authority

certainly hope they can prove their case..

just in case ..someone gets it into his head
..to sue the lot of em..

alp
Tony Zappia

""80 per cent of smokers are addicted at below the age of 18 years""

""following World War II, throughout this country about three-quarters of the male population smoked

and about a quarter of the female population smoked.

By the mid-1970s the number of male smokers had dropped to around 43 per cent of the population, but the number of female smokers increased to 33 per cent and hit its peak around that time.

It is interesting to follow those trends""

yes it is tony

tell me mate...
what was the death-rates ..back THEN?

reducing the numbers
has only increased the deaths ATTRIBUTABLE..to smokers..

some fail to see where there is fire
there is occasionally smoke

just because we see no smoke
dont mean there aint no fire

[smoking RELATED]
..not cause of death

get it?
there is a real difference
continue quote's

""The anti-smoking drug varenicline, otherwise known as Champix, has also been made available through the PBS for an additional 12 weeks.

I commend the Minister for Health and Ageing for supporting that move.""

""last year I raised the importance of ensuring that nicotine patches were placed under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.""

""Australians discard some 32 billion cigarette butts each year""

and someone had to count them all*...lol
or its a lie...SPIN*

""that equates to something like 40,000 cubic metres of waste.""

did they get a govt grant to run the numbers?

""you can understand the serious implications and impacts of cigarette butts on our environment generally""

i certainly did when that cute young greenie
explained it all for me..

she wasnt a lobbiest..lol

just a numbers counter...
tired..?..from counting all them ciggie butts

""I will touch on is the impact of passive smoking.""

i wonder will he tread ...on big petro?
putting all that smokey diesal ..in your kids lungs?

""..Again, it has been well-documented that passive smoking has a direct impact on other people""

yes mainly city-dwellers
and farmers running their tracters in their sheds

alp
Steve Georganas

""The argument has been that people should be their own filters, being free to choose what they watch, read, listen to et cetera.
..It is a purely social libertarian argument""

watch this one

""It is a nice idea. It would be lovely if people made rational choices or if their choices could be made without impact on others""

yes especially drunks
or nanny state lobbiests media types.. needing a quick buck

""one is never totally rid of the desire to smoke.""

thus we NEED to continually
SCARE THE PANTS OFF EM!

increase the price
by indexing 25%..ANNUAL..
[ABOUVE INFLATION}.increases

so that they give in..go broke..
or die trying..simply to pay ..the extra prices

""The Australian Health Institute
encapsulates* the effects*of smoking thus:

Tobacco/smoking..is a major risk* factor*
..for the three diseases that cause most deaths in Australia:

ischaemic heart disease,
cerebrovascular disease
and lung cancer

It is responsible for around 80 per cent
of all lung cancer deaths
and 20 per cent..!..of all cancer deaths.""

ie those 7000..in qld alone..!

so what are
*the true numbers?

isnt it true

reveal the truth
was 7000 q'lders true?

OR
is 15.000 australians..true
who knows?

""In 1998,smoking cost each and every one of us
a combined total of almost $13 billion in healthcare,..lost productivity and other costs.

Healthcare costs..*attributable to tobacco
for the year 1998-99 were over $1 billion,
including medical,hospital,nursing home and pharmaceutical costs.""

and now{acording to 3 previous member's}
30 billion and/or 31 billion..

come on folks
these numbers
have been spun

""The costs of the cigarettes
are in addition..to these figures""

were..?..in addition
[in the 90's?]

maybe now
its a 'total'..number

please explain..the divergence of ammounts?

what has changed
the math?
spin?

alp
Deborah O'Neill

""I am glad we have got through this debate""
lol
""so far and managed to avoid
those predictable..nanny*state arguments""

aint that funny
THE SAME WORDS..BELLY POSTED>>!
at the beginning..!

""You do not have to go far
to find warnings..by our public health authorities
that smoking is..*expected*..to kill one *million Australians*..
over the next decade""

OH DEAR..
what is ten times 15,000?

150,000
NOT ONE MILLION..!

cant you see
how they are making it up ..as they GO?

""care for those..one million* Australians
who simply ..*will not be here""

yeah tell me bout it...lol

""..because of the impacts of tobacco smoking
on their life and health.The preventable death of one million Australians...*understandably..needs to be our No. 1 focus""

to make matters even worse
SHE REALLY BELIEVES..HER OWN SPIN!

""Consider as well..that close to three million
Australian adults..smoke on a daily basis""

and one million
will die..in ten years..lol

""and you get a clear picture
of the public health costs..[spin]..of smoking""..{.."related...attriutable."}

we/they
have been decieved into believing SPIN

""Consider also that around half of these smokers
who continue to smoke..for a prolonged period ..die early""

not the use og half?
for the other 'half'
at best[worst].. 8 years early...

Half of them die
in middle age""

[thus the other 'half'
die during old age?]

""The Australian Institute of Health and Welfare has tobacco
causing..just under eight
*disability-adjusted*..life years.

That is almost eight years
off your life ..if you are a smoker""

interesting stat that
which half?

you can have the 8 years
give me back my tax

""Many of us here know people who have died of lung cancer,
and this is the case for me. One woman...""

im a smoker
and i dont..

AFTER GUILTING by docters
she said..""‘I shouldn’t have smoked.’""

"" She learnt too late to be able to stop herself from the habit, to be able to change her life outcome...That was two years ago—and, in terms of eight adjusted years of life, Gay should at least have another six.""

this is all for a lousy extra 6 years?
thought it was..8..mate?

""On a macro level, the total quantifiable cost
to the economy lol..of smoking,
*including the costs associated with loss of life,
is estimated at over $31 billion.""

ohh now we see how we got from one billion
to 31 billion,,[creative accounting]

""Quitting at age 50
halves your risk of smoking related death,""

lol

""but quitting by age 30 avoids almost all* of the excess risk.""

interesting point

"" Stopping at age 60, 50, 40 or 30 can result in gains of, respectively, about three, six, nine or 10 years of life expectancy.""

so the 8 year thing ..was SPIN?

so a 12 year old
who gives up by 30
will be just fine?

gotta love statistics

""..regard to the prevalence of smoking
among blue-collar workers.""

""I am aware of research
that found all three measures of socioeconomic status—education, income and relative socioeconomic disadvantage—are significantly related to the likelihood of smoking..""

""Of these three measures,relative social disadvantage was most strongly related to smoking status.""

THUS THEY KNOW..
ITS A TAX ON THE POOR..!

""to talk..about the importance of preventative health
if you yourself..are addicted to tobacco dollars.""

LOL

IE the ANTI_SMOKING LOBBY
and subsidised BIG-PHARMA?

""And..*no-one should underesti*mate
the insidious*..ability of "big" tobacco
[*BIG-BUSINESS*?}..to get its message through""

SHOULD not.. THAT READ
the inside-ious.. able..big* anti-smoking* lobby?
thats getting govt
to get its mess-age through..to even you?

""I find this quite disgraceful...""

lol
""The alliance home-page carries a disclaimer
that, frankly, says it all:""

[ie smokers lobby =3]

""We are supported..by British American Tobacco Australia Limited … Philip Morris Limited …and Imperial Tobacco Australia Limited …""

3..!

""Supported by"
..Owned by..!..those [BIG MULTI-NATIONAL LOBBY}..many..companies
to prosecute their self-interest*
..would be much closer to the truth.""

against HOW MANY..ANTI SMOKING LOBBY?
and THEIR SELF INTREST'sss?

""I can only hope
this preventative health campaign
we..are running""...

yes that you..are RUNNING
and we are paying for?

""is experiencing great success
and that that of the opposition ..is experiencing its last gasp""

yes 3 dead ciggie companies
who couldnt lobby via the media
nor get govt money to lobby for nuthin

against a group of colluding people
we are paying to ride us into an early grave
via lies and spin

""We have certainly come a long way.

The medical and health communities""

how many lobby just there

""have been vocal in their support of the Tobacco Advertising Prohibition Amendment Bill 2010. As you would expect, the Australian Council on Smoking and Health has welcomed the move.

The AMA President,Dr Andrew Pesce,
has also voiced his support.""

yep hundreds ..in*..on this colusion lobby
to tax smokers..to an early death
and get GOVT SUBSIDIE..cash

ALP
Chris Hayes

""Leaving aside the emotional costs..of that toll,

...*the social costs...*
are estimated at $31.5 billion...""

estimated
note NOT HEALTH COSTS..!

When we get carried away
looking at budgetary requirements
we should factor in real*numbers like that..""

lol
see previous speaker

""I got the Parliamentary Library
to conduct some research for me""

who vets the raw research?
can re-search be submitted by lobby?
who fact checks?

""like to thank Dr Sang Giang Phan,
What he was particularly concerned about
was that we should be doing more..to encourage people to kick the habit

*by using the Pharmaceutical_Benefits/Scheme""

the seed
was planted

""we are talking about an addiction,
and kicking an addiction is difficult.""

""and,certainly,people who are addicted
to smoking..know that it is not a matter of choice..for them.""

AND NOW THEY GET THEIR SUBSIDISED ADDICTION
payed for by..*the PBS...

[and who gets the subsidy?]
BIG PHARMA...lol

recall the admission
that tassie..has higher_average..smoking-rate

check this

""The University/of Adelaide
conducted various research studies into smoking.

The important part..that they determined
that, in the Fairfield LGA, 26.1 per percent of males are current smokers and,in Liverpool, at the other end of my electorate, it is 24.5 per cent...""

""Those figures are still well above the national average""lol

NOTE>>>""..of 22 per cent of the community being smokers.

Further, from the university’s figures, 26 per cent of females in the Fairfield LGA and 24½ per cent of females in Liverpool are smokers.""

again picking on the poor

but look at..*the HIGHER numbers
a bit higher than..15% or even 16.6..percent?

numbers spin
[from parlement libary?]
aint it all..just too neat?

""The thing that underlines all this
is that I know that,..of all the deaths of smokers that occur—""

WATCHING?..!

..""whether it is a car-accident,
a heart-attack..or any other tragedy—
50 per cent.....LOL...are* tobacco *related.*""

""I know the changes that are proposed
in the bill..may not be popular with everybody""

but who cares
they dont got..an anti-smoking lobby
on their door..everyday..!

alp
Laura Smyth

""We have heard the Cancer Council’s *..*estimates*
that smoking claims the lives of 15,000
or more Australians every year
and costs our economy around $31.5 billion.""

there you go folks
ESTIMATES*...!

ON SOCIAL COSTS..*
[see next post]...!

from the members own mouth

""There are a great many statistics that can be discussed in this debate,which have been discussed and which will continue to be discussed

It is important that they be quoted regularly because they are so terribly alarming.It is really an unthinkable number of people.""

yet ITS ONLY..A GUESTIMATE..!

""it is why we are making such a concerted effort
to curb cigarette smoking through..a variety of measures""

get the picture
they bought into the GUESTimate..!

keep pushing the lies
and the sheeple swallow it as true

but it can only be an estimate
because it is ONLY attributable*
and we dont autopsy deaths..to find the real cause..!

""The CancerCouncil>>esti-mates*
that 15 per cent of smokers
do not smoke every day""

lol

""targeting smoking rates,
this bill is ...*very *likely.. to benefit those""

weasel word'S?
how about this
HIGHER THAT NATIONAL AVERAGE

[the 3 rd state
ABOUVE_THE NAT AVERAGE]

""It found that in my home state of Victoria,in 2007,
some 19 per cent of the adult population..*were smokers""

lol
anyone keeping track of the numbers?

""The centre also found that 19 per cent of young-adults
in the 18 to 24 age category were smokers

and that 23 per cent of those aged 30 to 39 were smokers.
Obviously these are extremely troubling statistics""

yes your right
THESE NUMBERS TROUBLE ME TOO..!

""...reaching the targets set under the COAG National Healthcare Agreement for reducing smoking rates by 10 per cent by 2018 and halving the Indigenous smoking rate.""

""It will be important in addressing
the health culture..lol.. associated with cigarettes""

"",We have seen that more than half a million fewer people are smoking than were smoking a decade ago...Unfortunately,""

""we know that there are around*
three million Australians..who still smoke.""

""significant measures...They include record funding*
being committed to..targeted*antismoking campaigns""

yes they are doing...*quite nicely
OUT OF THEIR combined..LOBBY eforts

""These measures are very consistent
with the government’s strong approach..to curbing cigarette smoking""

""We certainly know that prevention,
most of the time,..is better than cure""

and having a govt-subsidy
is better than coping..a govt_tax

"There will be,...in the next generation..or so,
a pharmacological*method*..of making people love their servitude,

and producing dictatorship..without tears,so to speak,..producing a kind of painless..concentration-camp..

*for entire societies,

so that people will in fact..have their liberties taken away from them,but will rather enjoy it,..because they will be distracted from any desire to rebel..*by propaganda or pills..

or brainwashing enhanced

*..*!..*by pharmacological methods.*!*!*!

And this..seems to be
the final revolution.""

*SUBSIDISED*
BY GOVT subsidies...!

http://mp3.oraclebroadcasting.com/Intel_Hub/Intel_Hub.2011-02-28_16k.mp3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc5mNp3EvE
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23424

And please don't forget:

financial institutions
love GOVT TAX funds]..

no matter who wins or loses,
debt is incurred,and must be repaid!

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23443

Recovery ends
if debt limit not raised:

Webmaster's Commentary:
What recovery?
I certainly do not see it anywhere around here.

The only place in Recovery..is Wall Street!

And Bernanke wants an extension
of his license ...to counterfeit

to keep the party..going
JUST a little-bit longer.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/recovery-ends-if-debt-limit-not-raised-bernanke-2011-03-01?siteid=rss
http://dailybail.com/home/is-ge-the-real-reason-paulson-panicked-in-the-aftermath-of-l.html
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wildbankers.php
http://whatreallyhappened.com/es/content/ever-wonder-why-european-banks-were-so-angry-us-something-about-not-making-good-some-toxic-g
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/02/government-is-trying-hard-to-convince.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCXGSA-FydU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLx5BwebIDo

next

ALP
Laurie Ferguson

""The Centers for [USA}..Disease-Control..estimate that 443,000 people a year die..in the United States..as a result of cigarette smoking.

That is related to an estimate*
that eight* million Americans
will die.""

""They note:

More deaths..by tobacco use..than by
all deaths from human immunodeficiency virus(HIV),
illegal drug use,alcohol use,motor vehicle injuries,suicides,
and murders combined.""

note what is excluded?

ie..abortions...war..

and..other*..sickness*..

NOTE..{extracted QUOTE
from next speaker}

""Tobacco-related deaths account for
..*approximately*..''15 per cent...*of all deaths""..!

back to previous speaker

''This is indeed a very serious area
of public/policy...

..Our nation has been..at the forefront in this area""

so serious..*disease control center*
*excludes...*other dieases..!

""..perfidious industry.""

meaning:..decietfull and untrustworthy
surely this..is pot/kettle..stuff?

""So there has been very long-term action
by governments in this country...

I think Australia and South-Africa were amongst..the countries that were most draconian..with some of these measures..many decades ago.""

yes ..a selective
hate-base..helps

get racists..to hate smokers
and.. bobs ya uncle..

""The background to this..is a COAG agreement""

""..As I said,the health figures..are very persuasive:""

{smoking is atributable to}..

""...*20 per cent..!
of all cancer-deaths..in general""

""tough regulations have restricted
their*..ability to make money""

and we dole it out..like candy
to those hating..*smokers

NOTE
re indexing
ANNUAL price increases
abouve*indexed/inflation

told you
it would catch on

here in qld
PUBLIC transport prices..*HAVE BEEN INDEXED
for the next 3 years..at 15 %..[compounding]

si told you...!

the media serve the interests of state and corporate power,
which are closely interlinked,..framing their reporting and analysis in a manner supportive of established privilege and limiting debate and discussion accordingly."-- Noam Chomsky

but
back to quotes

ALP
Melissa Parke

""At that time a review of the Tobacco Advertising Prohibition Act,..under the guidance of the then parliamentary secretary for health,Trish Worth,seemed to conclude that no change was required.

I say ‘seemed’..because no report was prepared""

to the public..!

""as a result of the review and the inquiry submissions..
were not made public.""

feed the sheeple spin
have metings in secret

hear the lobby..and make no PUBLIC CONCLUSIONS
sound familour?

""This measure alone""

this new law

""has a double purpose:it adds a significant price disincentive to the purchase of tobacco products,and it will generate an additional $5 billion..over four years to be directly invested*..in better health and hospitals""

ie the anti-smokers..lobby

""through the National Health
and Hospitals Network*Fund.""

SEE MATE
we are subsidising
YOUR HOSPITAL BED>>!

LOL

official?..smoking rate..

""fallen from 19.5 per cent in 2001 to 16.6 per cent in 2007.
That rate is one of the lowest in the world""

ensuring the lobby ..will go overseas
into other lucrative anti smoking lobby-groups
to lobby other govts....to get yet more scemes

to stir racists types
into more ridicule of smokers..

""Let us remember what was set down clearly
in the National Tobacco Strategy 2004-2009 which stated:

Tobacco is a unique consumer item.
Tobacco products cause premature death
and disability when used as intended by the manufacturer; and they are addictive..."""

yes..so why add sugar/salt..and transfats into foods
or caffene and sugar..into softdrink
or codene into headache tablets

we are scammed
LIED TO

we are THE ONLY PROBLEM
not fatties or drunks
[other addicts]

""National Tobacco*Strategy*..2004-2009..makes it clear that
tobacco..is a product that needs to be distinguished*..[read sepperated]..from other products""

..to kill it first..
[to set a precedant]

""and that big tobacco..is a class of corporate citizen
that need to be distinguished*..[EXTINGUISED}..from other corporate citizens""

that we love to serve..!

like those peddlers
of the big macca
or coke is cooler..
or hungry jackin a box

or big pharma selling docters..on a.d.d..to put kids on lsd...

or codeen in syrip
or pills
[or nicoten in gum..
or nicoteen in patches..
or booze merchants or potato chip mob.

.yeah they are
your friends..lol

""The fact is..that cigarettes
are a legal form of highly-addictive
and highly-effective poison.""

yes nicoteen
a POISEN...that now
is put in bubble gum

in concentrated form...
and SUBSIDISED BY GOVT HANDOUT..

clever stuff..!

but here is a good one

""Tobacco-related deaths
account for approximately 15 per cent of all deaths""

""in the financial year 2004-05
was estimated at $31.5 billion."""

SEE SOCIAL COSTS*
comment

""This represents 56 per cent of the total cost of tobacco,..alcohol*
and illicit drug use....!""

""was responsible for 753,618 hospital bed days,
and for $669 million in hospital costs..*.""

LESS THAN ONE BILLION..!

""Tobacco control needs to be exercised without the influence,
or even the perception of influence,}""

..[by special intrest groups]
big tobacco mentioned
but not intended..[added in by edit?]

""Konrad Jamrozik,made the following remarks about big""

multinational's
tobacco mentioned
but lets face it
it is standard opperating procedure
for..*all big business

""in his role as the Professor of Evidence-based Health Care,
University of Queensland:

Its standard tactics are to debate almost endlessly the scientific evidence
on the harm caused by its products, to cultivate (and regularly pay) spokespeople
in other industries and in academia, and to purchase influence by making substantial donations to any political party that will accept them.""

unsaid is thery love govt subsidy
and use any trick in the book

""Tobacco control is not a matter of moral nicety
and nor is it about playing politics.""

no its bipartisen

*pure rancid hate

the FAVOURED lobby
has lobbied its bias well

nyet?

""Tobacco control in this country
must be exercised""

EXCISED!
cast out
decried hated despised
ridiculed silenced and victimised

""without the slightest hint
or perception..of influence""

by any bias lobby or fearmongering hate
not hating smoking or smokers..just looking like

we give a damm

""One wonders not only about the intelligence
of those conference participants ..but also about the guidance*
they had received from their political elders in a political policy machine]..pot kettle].party
which relies so significantly..on money from big..""

[insert big business]

and organised dis-info
special intrests groups
and their lobbyists

seeking govt cash
franchised exclusive licence
and funds ..to sell their spin..[mess-age]

""Debate(on motion by Mr Marles) adjourned""

dare labrats..
to give the libs
give a right of reply?....

or do both serve their
big multinational..business masters
and the spin lobby

who cares

guess who is next?
booze diatetics heretics?

no
know
[the most silent lobby]
will be next...[first silence their voices]

as for exposing peter..[or his facilitraitors]
let his [their] concience judge him[them]

its of little use
to stress out about 300 dollars

im over needing scapegoats/..
or seking others to blame

we are governed by tools
fools and imbisiles

who read prepaRED SPEACHES
little knowing what their own words reveal

may satan have mercy on their souls

they chose
their own version of hell

those who regulate..by the law
shall be ruled ..under the same ..form of law

as ..they thought to rule others by

thus the mad ..make bad law
..built on spin and lie

the deciete and collusion
will remain unconditional..binding upon them

for eternity

enough said
http://revolutionarypolitics.tv/video/viewVideo.php?video_id=14151
rip

some interesting developments this week
heard that lymphoma has over come breast cancer as highest cause of death[as they are both included in death by smoking its interesting to note this

its also interesting to note
previous post re only 20 percent of cancers being smoking related
but is this reflected in the death numbers[who knows right

cancer is cancer]
[and it sems 43 types of lymphoma cancer]
for a start

this is a case of why do they
do the things that they do

see on sunday we saw a great piece[story]..of love
http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunday-night/video/#fop

its called
'the power of love'
currently its on this page
http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunday-night/video/

in two parts
[that both seem to have the same link?]
but it will get lost in the noise
thus i give its name and location

why?
because negus did a hit piece
on the same topic last night

but he didnt mention the new german method[trial]
his is the current 'best practice'..that failed [in the power of love]

the hero of the story found a cure for luekemia
after searching the web thousands of times..
using hundreds of friends

[after going the normal route of radition
and tcell that often fails but negass sold as some miracle-cure]
the very next day

in short the other cure
that worked after negass cure failed
and is in danger of being lost in the chatter yet again

anyhow this other [non negass] cure
also has a failure rate..and wasnt memtioned by name
also involved tcells [but maybe not radiation]
but worked..where 'classic medicine'.. only offerd dying

see this is how big medi-sin works
someone finds a cure that works
but the media goes for the propaganda/spin of the old way

wow i have been selected to recieve[a chance] to win an eyemac
and all i want is my damm smokes

im trying to keep the love
but feel i should be naming names

getting my vengance
as others got my momey by deciete
assisted by others..especially the anz bank
and the service provider putting up a fraud web site

its nice to be nice
at least the thief could do is
send his victims a smokeless cigarette

or info as to who isnt supplying him

i of course just use my hurt and anger
to make the real evil people[govt] pay
they might get one tax
but no more taxes

and no pensions
they took from me
by lies and deception
i cant forgive them their vile

where is the tax on miners
but no they got protection[lawyers]
will see them all in hell..especially that red franger with a beer bum

why govts give a subsidy for nicoteen gum..[and patches]
becomes more clear when we notice the inspiration[rational] of the big pharma lobby for a crackdown on smokers

to get they new subsidy

why?

they are loosing their old ones
need more money

FDA Suddenly Bans Drugs
That Have Been On The Market For Decades
By: ActivistPost
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/03/fda-suddenly-bans-drugs-that-have-been.html

As Techdirt recently discussed, the drug pipeline is running dry, as Big Pharma's patents are beginning to expire, and the drug companies are freaking out.

*For years they have been spending more money on research and testing and getting fewer results.

This year alone they are going to have 11 patents expire on drugs that bring in approximately $50 billion in revenue to the big pharma firms.

Of course, the flip side to this is that consumers can start saving about 95% on the price of those drugs, as generics hit the market.

More than 2,000 vaccinated babies died: The cost of doing business
By: kdtroxel
http://www.naturalnews.com/031820_vaccinations_babies.html
(NaturalNews) Earlier this month (March 2011), Japanese authorities ordered doctors to stop using pneumococcal and Hib vaccines because four children died after receiving the shots.

*However, the real news was never reported:
more than 2,000 babies died in the United States after receiving vaccines for these very same diseases, yet authorities refuse to warn parents and halt production.

A safety review is vital to determine whether a recall of the dangerous shots may be necessary to protect additional American babies from disability and death.

According to Shelly Burgess, an FDA spokesperson, the FDA and CDC "have not detected new safety concerns or unusual reporting patterns."

That's odd, because the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), jointly operated by the FDA and CDC, has received more than 59,000 reports of adverse reactions to pneumococcal and Hib vaccines during the past several years.

More than half of these cases - 30,094 - required hospitalization, with 2,169 deaths.

About 95 percent of these deaths were in children under three years of age.

its so easy to change the death numbers
no doudt *all died by smoking

more convoluted thinking
[see previous post re circular reasoning
and cognitive bias[at carbon fraud tax topic]

anyhow

SMOKERS – YOU ARE INHALING
THE SAME RADIOACTIVE POISON
THAT KILLED Russian ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko!

When Did Governments (and tobacco companies)
Know About Polonium 210 and How Long Have They Known?
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/smokerspoison.php?q=smokerspoison.php

ok lets keep this in context
at that time in histry[when the study was done]
they werre blowing nukes into the atmosphere
lots of radioactive dust floating everywhere

to wit govt killing smokers
now needing to tax us to death by using lies

[i will get to what you done peter]
but bigger fish to fry for now


more govt silence
Sixth study in recent months
links mercury in flu shots to brain damage, autism
http://www.naturalnews.com/031870_flu_shots_brain_damage.html

The toxic effects of the mercury, also known in vaccines as Thimerosal, have once again been confirmed, this time by researchers from the University of Brazil.

Marking the sixth major study in recent months to condemn the use of mercury in medicine, the new study reveals that mercury causes serious brain damage, and is linked to autism and other developmental diseases in children and Alzheimer's disease in adults.

lets recall we stopped adding lead to petrol
because it was dumbing kids down
clearly mercury has the same affect..!

also please note
when the lead additrive got replaced
it was replaced with benzine[a known carcinogene]
thats why the biggest cause of cancer is petro fumes

smoking at best can be blamed for 25 percent
se previous quote from koombiaya..[the labrat minester for a big new tax.. and rabid anti smoking activist]

dont forget to put up the grenie link
[that the govt holds shares in 'big tobacco'
so they as major shareholders

they can make SURE
govt dont get lobbied for the big new tax

[overnight ,....on smokers]
indexed anually..see previous posts

please note question [d

""Senate debates
on 24 Mar 2011


Rachel Siewert (WA, Australian Greens)
I move:

That the Senate—
(a)
notes that smoking is the largest preventable cause of death and disease in Australia and places our health system under severe financial strain;""

one needs thgink why
[if its a fact]
govt needs to move a motion
[thing is itrs not a fact]
CHALLANGE ME ON THAT
""(b)
recognises that Australia has in the past been a world leader in anti-smoking initiatives;""

the antismoking lobby
has huge power in australia
mainly because govt is a major shareholder
see [d]
""(c)
acknowledges the important ongoing work and recent initiatives of Australian governments to reduce the burden of diseases caused by smoking, including plain packaging, advertising and point of sale bans, mass media campaigns, the Tackling Indigenous Smoking initiative and cessation support;""

its funny how first we get a big new tax
WITHOUT CONSULTATION..virtually overnight

not knowing the real reasons[see abouve]
behind it..[noting this was begun under howard..
first moved by liberals..sealed signed by labrats]
""(d)
expresses concern at the investment of more than $100 million of taxpayers money in shares in international tobacco companies by the Commonwealth Future Fund; and""

why needs govt seervants to hold 100 million in shares
except to get a major shareholder power on the board
that nulifies the lobby

""(e)
calls on the Government to review
and revise investment criteria as a matter of urgency
to ensure that the Future Fund is invested into ethical enterprises that are consistent with the health and wellbeing of the nation and not into tobacco.""

now the knife blade
has done its vile
lobby couldnt change things even if it wanted to

100 million to raise billions
aint the public ser-vice
serving their add-vice empowerments..well

""Question negatived.""

whatever that means

aint it funny

a pack a day smoker can save 4000 per year[advert]
thing is this extra saving will go on a new tax[carbon]
and increased water and power charges

anyhow recall how an earlier post [quoting a govt member]
attributed only one quater of all cancers to smoking
its worth noting

joel moskelovic has revieuwed all the studies on phone radiation causing brain tumours..[and found it holds up]

trouble being a 20 year lag..
betwen getting exposed and you getting the cancer...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42hJR1fX5VU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfNyZ9Kryb8&feature=related
[and then govt adding you to the smoking statistics]

keep in mind the nuke bombs
as you read this latest expose
http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/04/04/radiation-study-estimates-200k-cases-cancer-fukushima-nuclear-fallout-13880/
A disturbing study estimates over 220,000 cases of cancer will result from the Japan nuclear radiation fallout
[ie going to cause many cancers]

http://zippittydodah.blogspot.com/2011/04/gaboon-vipers-and-radioactive-hedge_04.html

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/04/04/25-years-chernobyl-food-unacceptably-high-levels-radiation-13927/

oh and here
another 'death by smoking'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1373240/Wall-Street-executive-Keith-Mastronardi-dies-falling-apartment-smoking.html

how about the media?
dont make me cry
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2011/04/03/foxspiracy/

A disturbing study estimates over 220,000 cases of cancer will result from the Japan nuclear radiation fallout

anyhow it looks like govt is going to get my tax dollars[&^#@#$]
but on the positive side one tobacco company is fighting back

'['Dying to be heard online
NEW SMOKESCREEN

Apr 4, 2011, by News Ltd.

A big tobacco company has hit back at anti-cigarette campaigners by launching its own viral movement. Philip Morris has started circulating messages about its new I Deserve To Be Heard website inside cigarette packages.''

it aint much
but fighting is better
than laying down for a lie

im changing brands

now its just a matter of finding the right web site
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=philip+morris+i+deserve+to+be+heard&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
[the powers that lobby to ban..will lay decoys]
play all their dirty tricks

[as previously revealed]
these people will lie just to get your ta

keep on telling me its posted
but i go to this page and find its not

so here goes again
[3 rd time]

Excessive taxes. How much more will they take from you?
https://www.ideservetobeheard.com.au/home.php

The government has already hit you with a 25% tax increase on your cigarettes in April 2010. How much more will they take from you? It’s time to get involved, speak up and say enough is enough.

Did you know?

As of February 2011, about two thirds of the $18.25 recommended retail price for Peter Jackson 30s is government tax.

Less than 1% of tobacco excise taxes is put towards preventative health measures such as anti-smoking campaigns. (Source: National Preventative Health Taskforce, Technical Report 2, 2008)

The recommended retail price of Peter Jackson 30s has increased by 109% since 2000.

The real price of cigarettes has tripled since 1983. (Source: National Preventative Health Taskforce, Technical Report 2, 2008)

Now’s your chance to write to your local MP to say NO to more tobacco tax increases, NO to more bans on smoking outdoors and NO to plain packaging of cigarettes.

Click here to send a letter to your local MP.
https://www.ideservetobeheard.com.au/getInvolved/writeLegislator.php

Still keeping the thread going OUG?
Sorry bloke but you Will not win.
Its in the numbers mate.
30% is it? smoke.
The smell if not health concerns would stop more than than helping here.
We differ on this, sorry but that is life, not because I am an ex smoker, in truth I wanted to give it up for 15 years before I did.
But because I think dirty tactics tobacco firms are using, and my continuing health concerns about the habit I think more tax and new packs will be a great outcome from this.
If tobacco lawyers go too hard our government should review outlawing it all together.