Thinker 2.....that last post couldn't have been said better. Yep! Not one of them.

Sir lance-a-lot and his white horses will.....enjoy rattling the chains ( national parks killing fields ) in side the barn with the rest of the horses:)

Lets celebrate Australia day.

But in what way?

You know, I cant wait until we are 50 million strong, wont that be fun. The cash registers will be ringing and the once abundant environment, we can all view in national geographic documentaries.

Oh what am I saying......its all going to be fine, so go on and enjoy your day:)

BLUE

*Are we feeding a pink revolution here?*

Most likely we are Belly, but that also exposes all Csteeles flawed
thinking. Csteele seems to favour the Kumbaya solution, but all
holding hands and singing, won't get rid of religious extremists
who persecute others. In fact, the Taliban even ban music and
any pictures.

So I am sure that Csteele means well, but reality does not
go away, when we close our eyes and wish it would.

I too can be a critic of the Americans. Yes, they can be arrogant,
they can be knows alls. I disliked George Bush's world, but I
see Obama's world as quite different.

As far as the drones go, they are a classic case of outthinking the
enemy. Militant leaders are terrified of them. To cry "unfair"
is a little bit of a stretch, given that Al Qaeda hardly play fair.

The reality is that whilst our forces are busy droning militant
leaders, those leaders have little time to worry about letting off
bombs in the West. Meantime both Australians and Americans are
nation building in Afghanistan. Training their forces, building
hospitals, schools and roads, showing them that there is indeed
another way of life.

Will it work in the end? That will really be up to the Afghan
people. It worked in Iraq in the end, but it took a while. So
I think its worth a try.

Sadly the one bloke who would have been a great leader, Massoud,
was killed just before the invasion. He led the Northern Aliance
for years and was a charismatic fellow. But Al Qaeda planted a
bomb in the movie camera of a journalist and sadly blew him up.

Curious is why Csteele is such an apologist for the Taliban and
all their evils.

Dear Belly,

Well thank you, you have just won me a bottle of Coonawarra red. A mate of mine who has been keeping tabs on this thread said that you hadn't really been pinned down on the matter of the use of gas and wanted me to ask a direct question about land mines and cluster bombs. I said it would be a waste of time because I would not get an answer rather I would be attacked instead, so a wager was made. I will be sure to toast you later this arvo.

As to the thread stopping I have made a commitment to myself to respond to any post on this thread, however blue in the face I get, so I intend being here to turn the lights out when that time comes.

Speaking of going blue in the face I do not 'cuddle' those who bomb civilians, I think it is all totally reprehensible irrespective of what side commits it. You however deem it fit to support it when done in your name. By doing so you have lost the right to condemn the act by others.

Regarding me insulting your nationality, hardly, are you not doing just that by espousing the views you do? They do not reflect the stance taken by this nation on International Law, the Geneva Convention, munitions that have such a terrible civilian casualty rate, the targeting of civilian infrastructure etc. Positions that will make me proud to toast the nation today.

Regardless of the above I wish you a good and happy Australia Day especially as we should celebrate the fact we can have these discussions in this country without the threat of reprisals.

Dear Yabby,

A redirect if I may. Do you agree with Australia's position on landmines and cluster bombs and do you agree with their use by the US in Afghanistan?

Or is that just too much Kumbaya for you?

To the Taliban banning music. Years ago when my inlaws became fundamentalist Christians they came home and burnt all their books and music that were not Christ orientated. The sentiment is not purely one of Islamic fundamentalism, the problem is that circumstances have conspired to put these people in power and the solution is to keep their hands from the levers of government. Just as we don't go and blow away our fundamentalists that shouldn't be the extent of our intentions here. They will be part of the government of Afghanistan and they will have a role in the Tribal Areas too.

I couldn't agree with you more about Massoud, perhaps a little over-hyped by the West but still presented very real hope for the country. The Taliban had been making strong overtures to him about forming government with him as prime minister but it didn't served the purposes of Al Quaeda so he was killed.

Drone strikes clamping down on terrorist acts outside the Tribal Areas? The surge in killings in Pakistan shows this to be completely baseless. The Pakistani Taliban, based on US figures, tripling in size in one year must have Al Quaeda rubbing its hands together. What a recruitment drive! If they can convince even a tiny proportion of these to pursue agendas broader than Pakistan they will be happy.

While you rejoice over each drone strike there are those who are rejoicing far more.

Just to be clear I am not an apologist for the evils of the Taliban, unlike yourself and Belly I am not apologist for evil full stop.

Now I'm off to drink some of Belly's red.

“And whether he's believed or no, there's one thing to remark,
That flowing beards are all the go way up in Ironbark.”

Lets hope through the drone's lens its not mistaken for a Taliban stronghold.

yabby yes aware of the murder of the leader of the northern alliance, just about a day was it before 9/11.
And share your understanding of csteels views.
Enjoy your red, you may well win more that way, see I despite your self indulgent view am mainstream , my views are too.
If you tickled me you could not make me grin More with that silliness.
Now I know, yes I do, you want your street Corner to spruke on, that if you went to any speakers corner in Australia the crowd would dwindle to one.
Here you can bring Friends mates pals to look at the strange beast who actually has the hide to have views other than yours.
I will stick it out see it is helping my blood pressure laughter is good for it.
Say Gday to your Friend from this red neck try white next time.
I leave for yet another sanga, sausage, and a 4x Gold

Yes Blue and Belly it wasn't well said. I apologise for any offence.

I too love our country but am feeling uncomfortable with the growth of nationalistic symbolism. Eureka is a symbol of a rebellion, not conformity, a rebellion that was justified, not as today when we see the Eureka symbol and the Aussie flag being used for ill purposes by people wishing to advocate racism and xenophobia.

I too, have had my nice Australia day holiday and appreciated it.
Without a drone in the sky to mess up a lovely day with my family.

cheers everyone