belly quote..<<how many innocents..die in any war>>..far too many..my brother,

think of..those kids/died ww1
in the trenches...or gallipoly..or korea..or vietnam
usa hasnt stopped killing since ww2...mate..its not good enough

but its worse..what they do to americans
ok mostly black yankies...but the numbers
of unborn..MURDED..since jfk got murderd...totals 65 million

thats just..[usa]..abortion/numbers
there is a death-cult..running usa mate...really*

<<was Afghanistan..better under the Taliban>>
belly..thats not for me to say
needless to add..MANY LESS DIED

so yes sharia/law is barbaric
but mate...when people..KNOW the law,
many more live..than die..under it

<<do you support sports-grounds..being used..to commit murder..as a spectator sport?>>.no..i dont agree..with govt having any right to kill..or main..their trust[the people]..

i dont agree with yanks..killing people by 3 lethal injections..or in electrick chairs..either

but we used to..do the same thing
we USED to hang people

we USED to burn people at the steak
flog people in the main street..put people in stocks

but we changed..without some war-mongering
natzi/nation..comming here..dropping bombs

besides...usa..set-up..most of them govts..!

bin..lardarson..and that d-head in iraq...we made them
or rather they were cia patsies...just like we installed idi amin...and the shar of iran...

usa has played both sides
against the other/..brother..against brother

do not be fooled
by the stupidity..of those who blame others!.!.!

mate..that cuts both ways

you talk of..<hate in the name of a God.>>

thats bull...mate..they dumbed-down..their own people
[read dumbing down the us education system]

they installed dictators GLOBALLY...be it in south americas..or indonesia..[you cant really be knowing all mate..but they do this globally..think of saudie..or kuwait..or georgia..its global brother

<<putting our/weapons away as weakness.>>
thats bull...send them..some real assistance
send in unarmed priests..to give REAL aid and assistance

those not hiding behind guns..
or kids playing/targeting them..with misiles,..from usa

send food/phones...jobs..not bombs

<<some/want to take us back..to the dark ages.>>
yes mate..TOTALLY TRUE..but not some arab..trying to feed his family

<<should Australia..have stayed out of WW2?>>yes
and ww1//korea/vietnam..etc etc

tell the yankies..you want war..
go to hell..[the kiwies did]

julia..is weak as psss
things will only get worse

Belly asks “Are the dead victims or perpetrators”? And of course we just have no idea, however there is one certainty after Wikileaks, we can't trust the US military to tell us the truth.

But his post is instructive. After the 'assume they are all terrorists unless told otherwise' comes the obligatory concern for the inhabitants, well the female ones at least.

Then comes the list of fears. These help explain why people like Belly, who I do not doubt is a kindly sort on most other issues, is so blind to the criminal behaviour on display by the allies almost on a daily basis in Afghanistan.

Fear number one is terrorists coming to this country. It is worth noting the report talked about militants and Belly already has them as terrorists. But how will they get here?

This brings us to fear number two, an increase in those arriving by boat. Why should we fear that? Because there will obviously be terrorists among them. But there is another reason, because they might interfere in our “right to be us” and this right needs defending in a far off land.

These culminate in the ultimate fear, that one day we may be fighting this battle “here at home”.

Now it doesn't matter how irrational these fears may seem to many of us they are very real to those like Belly. We need to try and understand how the got there and how they remain despite news reports like the OP.

Cont..

Cont..

Fear has the ability to throw ones morals out the window and it is a measure of people and of nations when they are able to hold true to what is right in spite of those fears. Israel's ban on torture comes to mind especially when held against America's twisting of their legacy and law to justify it in their own country.

An attempt at justification was evident in Belly's post. Because he sees our 'sins' less than those he sees of the Taliban and of the 9/11 perpetrators we should not be concerned about the methods we are using to slaughter Afghan and Pakistani tribesmen, he has “no problems with deaths of such folk”. Yet where is the call to tackle the country that provided the bulk of the 9/11 attackers, the same one that continues to finance radical Islam through out the world?

So who do we blame for the irrational fears, the lame justification, the selective or lack of empathy, the blindness of what is right and wrong?

Is it the media? Partly maybe. However in the end it has to be our leaders. They can stoke these flames of fear or they can reassure and mitigate through a strong moral stance and the ability to communicate it to all Australians.

In this department Australia is sorely lacking so we are condemned to see the measure of moral capital we once enjoyed as a people and a nation pissed against the wall by what is being done in our name.

Finally to add insult to injury we are forced to realise that we have in our midst people whose fear is so great they are more offended by the word 'arse' than the growing piles of broken bodies and lives that we are accumulating in order that they can sleep a little easier at night.

I do agree entirely with your view on this, csteele.

Senseless aggression is a better description of drone activity, but then again this is from a country, that since the second world war,
has introduced us to Agent Orange, and the effects of a nuclear detonation upon a city,or cities, for good measure.

I guess you start at the top and work your way down.

What I say, in reply to the three posts above mine will hurt.
It will gain me no Friends and maybe see lost ones.
But it is how I think, we all have opinions, a view on every thing.
The left, the greens, some others, have a view shaded by a type of sun glasses, that do not show true light,worn night and day like blinkers.
Anti America on any, every subject, canonizing any enemy of America,and at all costs, side stepping reality.
I remember my days in road side camps reading, learning understanding history.
The left called Britain and America war mongers, until Germany unveiled its true intentions, and invaded Russia.
WHO among the left stood up and shouted when Russia invaded Afghanistan?
Who, tell me please, stands up for women in the middle east and world wide who live second hand lives from the left.
REMEMBER the true left is always and forever a minority.
And never will consider issues such as this as anything other than a reason to defame America.
Who of the left took to its fellow traveler Saddam for turning his country in to a cemetery?
RIGHT are my enemy, left are every ones, truth, reality,fairness is not to be found in the true left.
Last one God? while every God is lead in humanity's saddle bag can ANY ONE say only other Gods not mine should go?
I am content to be me, to claim to try to see every side we are in a very bad war, corruption on the side we support is rife, but I believe it is an awful fight we can not avoid and sadly,it will one day come to our shores ,all in the name of Gods.
I wish I did not think that, but in reality we have seen it in a recent court case funded by our social security for 19 years , so if truth condemns me so be it take the blinkers of

If your referring to my comments Belly, I don't think I was being Anti-American in stating the facts. Perhaps I was being overly harsh in the context I presented my view.

It is hard however you look at it, to match the record of the U.S. for military overkill.

If it is fundamental that the innocent be protected, even in war?, and I am assuming it would be part of Conventions and Treaties such as Geneva etc, drones increase the possibility of the innocent being killed or injured.

This is the point, not left or right politics, or how insecure we do or don't feel about gods or terrorism, it is about military excess. In the name of what?. A line needs to be drawn about what is acceptable and what isn't. And who are we?. What do we stand for?.

Torture is not acceptable for example, hitting targets based on so called intelligence by machine with scant regard for the identity of the people who happen to be there at the time, is barbarism dressed up military cleverness. And as to the truth, efficiency or worthiness of drones, it is obviously naive to believe the U.S. and their spin anyway.

Otherwise we may as well just sit and wait for the next dastardly innovation to enjoy,
as we spiral downwards as a society. Our values a distant memory.