Dear Belly,

Now you are making me sad.

I have laid out a case for why we should consider what is being done in our name as unacceptable.

In response through innumerable posts you have accused me of being dishonest, untruthful, twisting the truth, without balance, a supporter of Saddam, of canonising our enemies, of having blinkers on, of being blind, and of being hate filled.

When one attacks the messenger so vehemently it is a sure sign the truth is something they do not want to hear. I am not going to walk away from this thread and will reply to anything you post but I invite you to reread what has been written and perhaps contemplate it out of the heat of tit for tat responses.

Dear Yabby,

Those training camps you speak of are the ones financed and constructed by the US and the Saudis and they are doing exactly what they were designed to do, produce militants.

As Osama said “To counter these athiest Russians the Saudis chose me as their representative in Afghanistan”...”I settled in Pakistan in the Afghan border region. There I received volunteers who came from the Saudi kingdom and from all over the Arab and Muslim countries. I set up my first camp where these volunteers were trained by Pakistan and American officers. The weapons were supplied by the Americans, the money by the Saudis.”

The reason why Pakistan was so keen to keep the bases open post the Russian withdrawal was they were sending Kashmiri militants there for training and paying the Taliban for their protection. The militants were trained, funded and armed before being sent to conduct guerilla attacks in Indian Kashmir.

They only became our problem when they turned their attention to the West. It is interesting to think of how history might have changed if the US had withdrawn the last 20,000 troops from Saudi Arabia.

Csteele, the Americans had troops in Saudi Arabia at the invitation
of the Saudis. Why? Because they knew that Saddam was after their
oil fields, just like with Kuwait.

bin Laden dreamed that he and a few of his followers could defeat
Saddam and was upset when the Sauds turned to a little bit more
credible military force, for their protection.

bin Laden got things done, because he inherited a fortune from
his daddy. An Arab with a few hundred million in his pocket,
has power in a place like Afghanistan.

Now where the whole story changed, was really in bin Laden's
religious education. He was always very religious, but
first followed typical Wahabi Islam, as most Saudis do.

Later on he got involved in the new radical techings, as
preached by the followers of Sayd Qutb, an Egyptian.
He was lectured by Qutb's brother, amongst others.

In Afghanistan he linked up with Zawahiri, an Egytian
who also followed the Qutb ideology.

Qutb's ideology is clearly described in "Milestones",
available on the net for free. It is basically about
violent Islam taking over the world, the biggest enemy
being the US. You too, should be bowing to Mecca,
5 times a day.

Combine Zawahiri's brains and ideology with bin Laden's
money, stick them together in Afghanistan, where they
could do as they pleased and you have a problem.

So no matter what the West does, it really won't matter.
Qutb's ideology is what they follow, including in
Afghanistan, by the Taliban.

bin Laden described Afghanistan under Omar, as the only
real Muslim state

It may csteele appear to you my words come from heat.
Guilty, in part, see I never mastered grammar, never leaned the right way to express my self in writing.
My education is on going and self driven.
Some, many eldest country sons/daughters commence work early to feed the rest.
I am not heated, not a bit, I however am aware I am trying to wrestle an eel bare handed.
Have done it before, both the fish and people.
I do not want to offend you, but in black and white question your opinions.
America, it could be said of France England,any country, has done much wrong.
FAR LESS however than its opponents in this war with terrorists.
Getting Russia out of Afghanistan was no bad thing.
As was getting rid of Taliban, I share your concerns with Saudi Arabia, and put PAKISTAN in the never to be trusted basket.
Those tribal areas are a blot on humanity, a people not able to see a different world and all its chances.
If you think I target you, then you are wrong.
If you think I look else ware for balanced opinion you are right.
My support for America is no hard task given the other sides crimes against humanity,its target to return the world to the worst of middle ages I am not moving, by the way Boazy is still posting under his latest AGIR so we both owe another an I am sorry.

Dear Yabby

Bin Laden got things done because he was heavily backed by Saudi Arabia and the US which is the only reason the Afghans had any time for him. He and his men were not highly regarded by the ordinary Afghan fighters.

Religious extremism only takes hold when a society is on it's knees. Iran is a case in point. It is also worth remembering there are two so called Talibans, the Afghan one and the Pakistani. The Afghan mob have made repeated requests that the Pakistani lot lay off the bombings in Pakistan because they had been receiving support from the Pakistani government. However that's exactly who the Pakistani Taliban have their beef with. Both lots get support from the populace because they are answering a need. How large would the need in this country to give Fred Nile complete and utter power, or Jerry Falwell in the US and how different would we both look after a couple of years.