Rape is not about sex, it's about anger, power and control - the same could be said for false accusation, as well.

You have not provided any 'proof' that this discussion 'trivilizes' anyone's pain. You continue to imply that the ordeal of false accusation is just not as monumental as the ordeal of rape - then you 'trivialize' by comparing some false accusation claim of your own.

We're talking about being accused of the most heinous, morally reprehensible crime known to mankind. Second only to murder, and some are now even claiming it to be WORSE than murder.

We're talking about something you can't defend yourself against. This is something that even if proven false, you are still considered guilty.

I would like to hear you tell a rape victim they would get more 'sympathy' if they weren't angry. I would like to hear you tell a rape victim their pain isn't worthy of respect or consideration.

You really don't 'get it', ronnie.

Onlyone If you don’t regard the comparison as offensive that is your choice. Considering your supposed experience I question why a person who has supposedly endured both offences is so callous to the feelings of others. I think that the comparison is a bit like comparing Hiroshima to the Jewish holocaust. You don’t need to pit one against the other.

Moreover, the proof I’ve provided is comparable to yours given that you haven’t actually been falsely accused of rape yourself. You’re a female with second hand experience. So, for you,I speaking from my experience trivialises your pain; but your speaking doesn’t trivialise others is okay is not logical. I wasn’t even referring directly to pain but to the system that makes it impossible for people like you to get a fair go. I was actually considering your plight –not directly comparing.

You say I continue to “imply that the ordeal of false accusation is just not as monumental as the ordeal of rape - then you 'trivialize' by comparing some false accusation claim of your own.”

I said: “I also know what its like (not to the extent of some others)”. Your claim that I compared a false accusation of my own with rape or your false accusation claim is not true. I’ve been careful to note this throughout.

Having said this, I think I’ve seen enough of the carnage of rape to form and opinion. My opinion that the comparison is callous is just that - it is my opinion if you think it is unfair than so be it. It’s callous to compare because it does indeed suggest that one or the other is more monumental than another. That’s my point. It will either offend the victim of rape; or rape victims who see the rapist get away with it; or the falsely accused who end up in prison. Your posts have proven this.

I haven’t seen too much proof from You onlyone either. Your experience is representative of you alone. My experience tells me that most rape victims and especially those who have had the pain of seeing a rapist getting away with it, would regard such a comparison a callous. I think your average person would too. That is an opinion.

Moreover, I’ve had enough life experience to tell whether something is appropriate or not. The comparison was with a women who was murdered and then brutalised. Aqvarivs (do you know him?) had the insensitivity to bring the false accusation into it. Seether suggested that the false accusation would be better than being raped. In light of the brutal rape mentioned in the article that is a fair comment. I am not going to compare the pain from these two things. I think I do “get it” to the extent that I have a right to suggest RObert ere on the considerate side.

To my understanding, you are not just talking about a false accusation of rape onlyone you are talking of false allegation that saw a person charged, convicted and then jailed. Also, to my understanding you were molested (which you upgraded to or compared to being violently raped here) and you choose not to pursue the matter because that was the culture of the military then. You’ve done well to recover, if that’s the case, but that doesn’t mean that all women are as resilient as you. Some never get over it.

Now by saying that doesn’t mean I am comparing that to the feelings of an innocent person who has been found guilty.

Clearly, if you are not some anti-feminist scamming us, the person you’re referring has had his life ruined. How is it going to help the situation by saying it is either better or worse or comparable to being raped? If a feminist made such a claim, I think you’d be firing your bullets at them for suggesting the same thing that RObert has.

Your anger and confusion is proof that the comparison has had negative results.

Ronnie, you made the comment to Celivia, "A direct comparison of the pain is offensive and it is a part of my right to speak up to let RObert know that as well. Even the suggestion kind of trivialises the pain of both groups."

I don't like to keep laboring the point but it seems to me that the comparison had already been made in Seethers original comment "there seem to be a heap of people out there who seem to take the position that a false accusation is as bad as or worse than a violent rape. I think if you asked most people what they'd rather experience, the choice would be pretty clear"

If comparisons trivialise pain then the claim trivialised the pain of those falsly accussed. The comment stuck out enough to me that to ignore it would have been to further trivialise the pain of that group. As you point out I am human - I won't pick up on every issue that should be addressed or try and right every wrong but this seemed important.

I think that Seether made the comment in good faith and may not have had knowledge of the harm suffered by victims of false allegations.

Celivia, thanks for doing the research. I've not got knowledge of Australian publishers covering that kind of material, I'll keep that in mind.

The only english language info I found on Chris's book was on a site with fathers in the URL (unlikely to impress those who don't already agree). www.fathers.ca/abuse_stories.htm for those who are willing to allow for possible bias.

I also found the a comment on the law firm Chris is a partner of at(http://www.australiansabroad.com/oz/hollandsite/health.html) - search for Chris's name on the page. For dutch readers try http://www.vdgnp.nl/ for the firms site but I've got no idea what it says.

R0bert

As I've stated before, Ronnie - I've lived through BOTH experiences. I can say any day, any time, I would rather have someone steal from me, than to be falsely accused of being a theft. I'd rather be raped, then to be forever branded a rapist, AND I'll go so far as to say I'd rather be murdered, than executed for a murder I didn't commit.

Nothing gets you 'recovered' quicker than adversity.

I'm talking about comparing apples to apples, here. To compare'Violent rape' to some ugly rumour that goes nowhere is no comparison. Being violently raped, or being violently raped in prison as an innocent person falsely accused is an accurate comparison.

Spending a lifetime in prison for something you didn't do compares pretty accurately to spending a lifetime as 'a victim'.

The huge difference is, you can have some control over your reaction to rape. You can choose to let it define your entire life, or not. Being in prison for something you didn't do defines you as an isolated prisoner, and there is NO way out...

There are people released from prison after decades of incarceration who FORGAVE their false accusers, who went on to live what was left of their lives in peace and harmony. Not because it's not as damaging. It's because there's no crippling pity party for the falsely accused -ever.

That's perhaps the only 'advantage' if you will...

You are apparently not a mother, Ronnie. You don't sound like a woman who has any relationship with men -or maternal instinct or bonds.

This was no 'second hand' experience. I would have gladly had her accuse me, than to helplessly watch harm and ruination heaped upon my child - because I angered a neurotic person.

A woman accusing another woman of such a thing would never fly - her motives would have been questioned. A woman accusing a male - even a very young boy - is too commonplace to even be questioned.

To have your child raped, or to have your child falsely accused is 1,000 times worse than experiencing it 'firsthand'.

How utterly clueless to presume otherwise