Celivia Continued…..I always believed (till now at least) that any person is considered innocent until proven guilty, what you are saying, sounds to me that it’s not the case when it comes to rape. If a woman says that she was raped than IT MUST BE TRUE? Is that what you imply in your post? Rest assured that I will do all I possibly can to make my accuser pay for it (all legally rest assured), this situation has never been tested before it will be a test case but I am absolutely sure that our constitution safeguard all of us men and women, my house is on the market I will use all the money to go as far as the Supreme Court to see this woman pay for all she is doing to me, maybe after that and if I win the case other women willing to falsely accuse a man of rape realise that they don’t have that WEAPON after all. My Barrister has advised me that I do have a change; rest assured that I will take that chance with open arms.

Max,
You are saying that if a man says ‘anything at all’ he is accused of representing the Sheikh.
No, Max, not true. Only men who make sheikhish comments are accused of sounding like the sheikh.

“Why do you wear such short skirts revealing your underpants?”
I can answer that for you even though I don’t know where you are going with this sheikhish question.
I do not wear skirts so short that my underpants are revealed, I do not wear underpants. Oh that was a joke to shock you, hehe.
Seriously now, I do not wear them because it is not my style and I wouldn’t feel comfortable wearing them. What other women wear in the name of fashion is up to them, but whatever their reasons are, these have nothing to do with rape since rape has nothing to do with how a woman presents herself.

Now you’ve had me run around in circles and now that I’ve answered your question, it’s time you answered the one I asked in my previous post:
“You also said that women should take responsibility to protect themselves.
What does that mean? If it means that she should protect herself by covering up, then I have made my point.
If you do not mean that she should cover up, then what is your point exactly- how do you suggest she protects herself from those sick-minded men?”
By the way, not only sick-minded men rape- sometimes they are just bullies or power freaks or can’t take NO for an answer.

“If it is not to attract ATTENTION, Why do you wear those clothes?”
I don’t know, but even IF they wear revealing clothes to attract attention, so what?
Some people drive around in expensive, flashy cars to attract attention- does that mean it’s OK to vandalise their cars or steal them?
There is NO excuse for rape- men who rape choose to rape; they are not ‘made’ to rape by the clothes a woman wears. You don’t seem to understand this.

Continued

“…your comments are very much open to discussions.”
Hehe Max, thanks for the compliment. It wouldn’t be so interesting to discuss things on an opinion forum if all our comments were closed to discussions, would it.

“You say that if a person that falsely accused of rape someone else’s, then if not proven it was rape she is then made accountable and forced to pay restitution to the accused then many women would find it hard to come forwards and report a rape for fear of having to be made accountable. Celivia; do you understand what you are in fact saying here?”
I understand exactly what I am saying.
Max, not all women who cannot find evidence are false accusers. The lack of evidence does not prove a woman is guilty of false accusation and therefore they should not be punished. Find evidence that they have falsely accused someone and THEN punish them.
You wouldn’t want a victim of rape to be falsely accused of false accusations, would you?

Read the statement where RObert said that he is opposed to penalties for false accusers when the accusation is retracted or overturned because then perhaps many women would not retract their accusation.
I am saying that in addition to this, there also would be the possibility that real rape victims refrain from reporting rapes if they know there will be a penalty if she fails to adequately prove it.
That’s why I agreed with RObert when he suggested that ONLY accusers caught out without retraction should receive a penalty.

To make it simple:
Women who retract their accusation should not be penalised because:
* A penalty may prevent them from retracting a false accusation.
* A penalty may prevent real rape victims from reporting the rape if they feel uncertain about evidence.
* Having said that, I’d like to add that women who retract their accusation do not, per definition, have to be false accusers. There are other reasons why women retract accusations.

Celivia I cannot believe the comments that you have made, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT
“not all women who cannot find evidence are false accusers. The lack of evidence does not prove a woman is guilty of false accusation and therefore they should not be punished. Find evidence that they have falsely accused someone and THEN punish them”

Do you really think a girl is going to admit she made it up and risk being prosecuted?

As far as lack of evidence is concerned, in my son’s case the girl said she bit his penis very hard. The police made an application to the courts immediately for him to be examined by a forensic doctor. The magistrate who approved the application said this will either prove or disprove that you have done the things she said. The forensic doctor was surprised that he could find no bite marks or any injuries at all on his body. The police delayed giving us the medical report for over 12 months as it didn’t came back as they expected.

DNA was another joke, my son gave a saliva DNA sample as they collected sperm from her jeans, it takes 3 months to get DNA results back, but another little surprise after 3 months we were contacted by the police that they had lost his DNA sample could he provide another sample, 3 months later we get the results back and there was no match. The girl is taken back to the police station as they want to know whose sperm it is and she makes a statement that she had sex with a 21 year old boy the night before.

“We should not forget that sometimes judges take into account a woman’s behaviour (provocative) or profession (stripper). “

The law has changed and barristers/lawyers are no longer allowed to cross examine a woman about her sexual past or behaviour, so judges and magistrates have no knowledge of the woman’s behaviour

Celivia, just to clarify I am very opposed to penalties due to a failure to prove an allegation. There would have to be evidence to satisfy the "beyond reasonable doubt" criteria which proved that the allegation was deliberately false.

If I'm understanding Max's point correctly he believes that exposure is a contributer to rape (or becoming the one targetted). If so what he is saying is that the person with the wallet lying on the seat of their car is more likely to find their window smashed than someone who hides all their valuables (and people don't often park Lamborgini's at railway stations in high crime areas).

I'm undecided on how much attire contributes to rape and a strong part of me says to wave the middle finger at sicko's but then statistically my risk of being raped is pretty low. It's not an issue that is likely to give me cause to dress to protect. I struggle to get my head around it properly..

onlyone - "To correct your redefining my comments about the withdrawal of a complaint " - was that refering to something I've done? If so sorry I've lost track of it.

It is possible that Ronnie is not as I think he/she is but I tend to take the approach of treating peoples claims about themselves at false value unless strong evidence suggests otherwise. This would all get even more confusing otherwise. For the counterpoint pretty much everything here gets treated with a grain of salt. Strange though it may seem from some of our exchanges I have fair bit of respect for Ronnie, there is some history.

Thanks again for your ongoing contributions. Your insights into your own families experience have been invaluable. The challenge for us in Australia is to work out what is relevant here and also how to avoid making the mistakes the US has made. Some structural stuff is different, our judges don't have to win popularity contests (except with the politicians if they want a promotion). Similar for other key players.

R0bert

Leamick, my son's accuser claimed he raped her everyday for two weeks -using 'Pert' shampoo to "Make it go in easier".

Don't know if they have Pert shampoo in Oz, but it's an extremely cheap, harsh brand. She was 9, he was 14 years old, yet her medical exam showed she was virginally intact and did not claim any vaginal infection from the shampoo. He passed three polygraph exams claiming his innocence. Our rape shield laws prevented her prior history of making accusations from being admissable.

She waited two years to make her accusation, during a temper tantrum, so she could attend a party. Over 30 people wrote letters on his behalf, most of them the young women he associated with, and their parents -teachers, ministers, and social workers. ALL said he was a nice kid and never harmed anyone.

She was believed, his life is now ruined.

rObert, my comments were to others, as well. My only comment to you was my certainty that 'ronnie' is probably 'Rhonda'. There is a real man hating war going on out there. No 'culture' in existance is blind to the fact that women are capable of lying, or make false accusation, except the 'culture' of lesbians.

I have been accused of being a 'traitor' to my gender for my comments about false accusers, but as a woman, I certainly aknowledged that men do wrong, and that I have been harmed by men. I just don't hate or blame all men for the actions of a few. ronnie seems to be in complete denial that women lie or commit wrongs against men, that women need more power...not the words of any male, any where, I don't care how much his 'culture' has clipped his manhood.