ALiR:”This sounds like some very unusual and atypical situation. It's very very unfair to generalize on the grounds of your own experience. In doing so you slander many fine families who foster children.”

They need slandering. It is a system you do not hear about or hear how the children are doing because everything about it is wrapped up tightly in privacy laws. I don’t believe Epsilon’s situation was or is unusual or atypical, it and worse has been happening for generations here.

Children & Young Persons (Care and Protection) Act 1998:
“ Section 105 of the Act prohibits the publication of the names and identifying details of a child who is a witness, the subject of care proceedings or is reasonably likely to be mentioned in Children’s Court proceedings “
“(2) A person who publishes or broadcasts the name of a child or young person in contravention of subsection (1) is guilty of an offence. Maximum penalty: 200 penalty units or imprisonment for a period not exceeding 2 years, or both, in the case of an individual or 2,000 penalty units in the case of a corporation. “

Any person who suspects a child in care is being abused cannot complain to anyone but the department under which the child is in the care of. We have around 30 thousand children in a system that polices itself. No one can speak out until a child dies and the law no longer applies.

Nice that you have met a few that appear to be doing well, I also have but many aren’t

Epsilon:”This form of abuse is for the gratification of the parents or the carers alone. If this sounds a bit like pedophilia, it should, the damage is just as extreme, and equally long lasting. I think it is no coincidence that the two evils are fellow travellers.”

Yes but I can see the difference between abusive people forcing their beliefs on you and well meaning people who want you to share their beliefs.

And yep I can see both are abusive in different ways. I feel abused when they come knocking on my door and thrust pamphlets at me although I understand that their intentions come from another place.

I would separate the abuse from the church in your case… the people you knew were abusive people that just happened to be also Christians.

Could have been abusive homosexuals demanding a child support their rights and I would again consider the abuse seperate from the message they were trying to make the child believe.

Dear Epsilon,

I apologise for AGIR. To have quoted from one of the most disturbing chapters in the New Testament is a measure of his world view. Hardly sensitive to your post.

The 'choice' that is on offer is to either accept those like AGIR or else “it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgement than for” yourself.

Further in the chapter is the warning;

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law— 36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’”

Add that to;
“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. “

Scary stuff indeed. But remember the writer of Matthew is composing his Gospel in a time of great conflict, not only with the Roman occupation but also between the traditional Jews and the new sect on the block, the Christians. He wanted to deliver a potent message of the prophetic nature of Christ and to have him relating what eventually came to pass was an attempt to show the superiority of Jesus as a Saviour. It is also the only Gospel that discusses the Church.

The Gospel of Matthew contains around 612 verses of the 662 verses of the Gospel of Mark but the above verses are additions by the writer of Matthew.

Having been subjected to the actions and thinking of fundamentalist in-laws I have a small understanding of the forces railed against you and you have my sympathy.

Dear AGIR,

Your Freudian slip is showing; “we get children to 'stubbornly refuse' to return to their own family members”.

Smacks of the Brethren to me

csteele

'One doesn't get the feeling they could ever have been friends. There was just too much of the Pharasee left in Paul although he did try very hard to set it aside. I do have a lot of admiration for him but little fondness.'

Could not disagree with you more but as you point out it does show how we view the Lord Jesus Christ differently.

Epsilon

It seems your horrible experience is more akin to communism than Christianity. No one can ever be forced to believe in the fundamentals of Scripture. Your experiences show exactly how unchristian the folks who abused you were assuming your account is accurate. Funny enough I have moved in Christian circles across different churches for over 25 years. The abuse outside Christian homes is on a far greater scale than those that happen within bible believing Christian homes. Why do you think so many non believers are sending their kids to Christian schools? Please don't give me the lack of funding deceitful dogma.

Runner:”The abuse outside Christian homes is on a far greater scale than those that happen within bible believing Christian homes.”

So Christians hit their children more often when outdoors?

Runner:”Why do you think so many non believers are sending their kids to Christian schools? Please don't give me the lack of funding deceitful dogma.”

They can pay their teachers more so get better ones?

I’m surprised the Christians let in the little rotten fruits of non-believers. Don’t they taint all the lovely holy children? But I guess their money gets washed before handling.

To AGiR, and to Runner,
You are both classic examples of the attitude that Christians are always to be defended if accused of any impropriety by unbelievers, regardless of the truth. To wit, your casting of aspersions on whether my account of what happened is accurate. What took place in that institution of which I related my experiences, was not an isolated case. It was everyday reality for the whole 68 of us that were there. It was done by people who were lauded by folk like yourselves as shining examples of the Christian ideal.I have met only three of my fellow inmates in the years since, but I could still write down for you the names of the whole 68 fellow sufferers, our shared experience of the horrors we all went through has placed them all unforgettably in my mind. Epsilon