csteele

you have made a Jesus in your own image. Hopefully you will wake up before its to late.

btw I am honoured to be called a 'Paulian' as you put it. His commitment to Christ is far greater than I could attain to. As an ex Pharisee of Pharisee's and one who encountered Jesus Christ personally I have no doubt he was miles ahead of your version of 'Christianity' which to date has certainly not resembled the Jesus spoken of in Scriptures.

Dear runner,

Paulian it is then. Thank you for your understanding in this matter.

As to me making Jesus in my image I'm afraid you stand accused of making him in Paul's image which he clearly is not. One doesn't get the feeling they could ever have been friends. There was just too much of the Pharasee left in Paul although he did try very hard to set it aside. I do have a lot of admiration for him but little fondness.

I offer some details experience as a child placed in the care of Fundamentalist Christians a long time ago, when my mother died.

I have read many of the posts, but not all, because after 50 years it still hurts to hear attempts to justify the fundamentalist Christian insensitivity, that underpins their need to indoctrinate children in their care. My own experience of this amounted to evil child abuse.

Many people posting to this thread betray their lack of knowledge of the matter. Those of us that have lived the experience, object to it being made an abstract case study! The human cost in my case, was to feel a lack of self-worth well into my twenties because of being continuously hammered for my inability, to accept the 'leap of faith' nonsense. My personal regeneration came when I reached the understanding that I was a good human being without it.

To call it 'shoving it down my throat' is putting it mildly. My stubbornness of wanting to understand why resulted in physical beatings, sleep deprivation, solitary confinement, refusal to let me have mail . labelled a recalcitrant, when I was subject to abuse by a pedophile member of staff, a blind eye was turned. All because I would not 'accept Jesus as my personal saviour'.

I think that there is a right that no-one here has addressed, and that is the right of the child not to have their mind messed with. Any decision to believe in things for which there is no evidence should be left for the individual to make as an adult.

I would be interested to know if there are any others posting to this thread, who have personal experience of what it is all about. To all the dilettantes, and those possessed of nauseating religious certainty, I can only express my contempt.

Epsilon

Those things still happen in foster care Epsilon, and much worse. It remains unmonitored and the church care administration is able to conceal wrongs. The system is set up so that if they do expose one of their own as abusive they lose funding.

“I think that there is a right that no-one here has addressed, and that is the right of the child not to have their mind messed with. Any decision to believe in things for which there is no evidence should be left for the individual to make as an adult.”

In a normal (no extreme view in my opinion) household it is still a strange line to walk. What the child knows of the world so far and how it presented to them in a different way. It all messes with their mind.

A bath everyday where they use to shower once a day… these little things are all upsetting to a little one. They suffer many things I would probably call “culture shock”.

I’m not sure about on this site but I know many people who have suffered as children removed from their parents.

I know of one home where if a small child tantrums they must apologise to Jesus when they are finished. Personally it creeps me out. I have no idea what that does to a small mind.

What I object to is that pre-formed opinion that the parents must have done something wrong to have their child removed.

I am sorry to hear what you went through and I am even sorrier that it continues to happen. Children have no voice here.

Jewely, I thank you for being one person that has taken the time and effort to familiarise yourself with some facts about the situation.

The point that I made about children having a right to not having "their minds messed with", did not just apply to chidren taken from their homes and put into foster care. Regardless of whether the religious indoctrination of infant minds is done by parents or carers, the reason is the same in both cases. This form of abuse is for the gratification of the parents or the carers alone. If this sounds a bit like pedophilia, it should, the damage is just as extreme, and equally long lasting. I think it is no coincidence that the two evils are fellow travellers.

Epsilon

Dear Epsilon.

You seem to be alluding to 2 different experiences.

1/ You speak of 'member of staff'....could you please expand a bit there ? Help us to contextualize your comments.

2/ You speak of "My stubbornness of wanting to understand why resulted in physical beatings, sleep deprivation, solitary confinement, refusal to let me have mail . labelled a recalcitrant, when I was subject to abuse by a pedophile member of staff, a blind eye was turned. All because I would not 'accept Jesus as my personal saviour'.

This sounds like some very unusual and atypical situation. It's very very unfair to generalize on the grounds of your own experience.
In doing so you slander many fine families who foster children.

I SEE those children on a weekly basis at Church (with families who care for them) and you cannot even begin to imagine how much those children LOVE their carers... we get children to 'stubbornly refuse' to return to their own family members because they are so desparate to STAY with their foster carers.

You then add:

I think that there is a right that no-one here has addressed, and that is the right of the child not to have their mind messed with.

COMMENT Minds can be 'messed with' in 2 ways. By imposing a DENIAL of God...or...BY imposing an AFFIRMATION of God.

The key word in both of those scenarios is IMPOSING. A Christ-honouring family will never try to force a child to believe, because belief canNOT be 'forced'. "Belief" is an abstract idea..it's internal, though there will be external evidence in behavior and attitude. Those externals can be faked...so forcing is of no value.

If you wish to remain in unbelief....that's entirely your own choice.
Matt 10:14