I have stated many times on this forum how disappointed I am about bureaucracy & the indifference of people to put a halt to this obscenity. In my workplace we are now getting to a stage where office staff outnumber the in the field staff by 3 to 1. We're becoming less efficient in the delivery of our primary role due to the ineptitude of Government policies enforced via mindless bureaucracy. It literally is coming down to 1 bloke on a shovel & 3 or more office staff engaged in paperwork relating to the bloke on the shovel. We have tele conferencing equipment, email etc yet our bureaucrats still need to travel every week at huge expense to attend meeting after meeting. My mate said to me last night "did you know that Joh Bjelke Peterson had 7 staff & Petter Beatty had 700". Slightly exaggerated I presume but it does make a thinker think.

What You are saying about tradies is to a degree correct. During the 50' and 60's trades were the first choice of many but as education became more accessible to the population in general their was a shift away and a degrading of the stature of trades. I see that we now realise that this was a big mistake and now recognise the incredible skill levels required in many trades. An industrial electrician certainly won't climb around in ceilings and deserves his $150k a year. A good friend of mine is an engineer working in the refinery industry and laughs at your suggestion of 80k per year. He brings home 250k on contract as do most of the management and engineers where he works. They earn it with hugh hours, mega responsibility and major stress.
I think we are missing the real issues with wages. Yes there are some route jobs where unions are out of control, but can you justify how the head of a major company can take home 5 - 20 million in bonuses a year when most labourers are earning under the poverty rate. The average wage is somewhere in the mid forty k's i believe. but the truth is probably 40% of the population are earning less and another 30% not much more. Then there is the rest that proportionally earn way above their value.
I agree the wage should reflect the job and skill level. Education is not central to skill level. So when are we going to start rolling back or massively taxing all wages over 150k. I would suggest 60% tax.

Hi Nairbe

Re those CEO's etc.. MATE..I'd line the bastards up and... u know the rest.

This all get's back to our basic values. We were founded on the ideas of 'leadership is servanthood' which comes directly from our Biblical/Christian upbringing/traditions... from Jesus "If any of you would be first..he must become the servant of all"

But we've reversed that... I'm not surprised about the engineer salaries for big operations.. I was thinking of a more normal company which I know. My own cousin is on a pretty good wicket but one of my peers from the Airforce was on 120K as a project manager..then he winged about the 'return' :) and now he's on $250k too.. they said "You are the only bloke wse've had who gets stuff done"

VALUES...VALUES...VALUES... without those which are 'other' centred, we will simply spiral into out of control 'self' interest and end up like a bunch of breeding rabbits at a well filled, well grassed waterhole... and suddenly find there is no grass left......

Chippies get around 35-40 an hour I think... (the self employed one near me was going to do some work for $35/hr) Imagine..just IMAGINE what would happen to our mortgages if Chippies suddenly got $150k ?
Brickies.. same goes for them.

Imagine how Brickies and Chippies feel when the Sparkie rocks up in his stretch HumVee with mags etc..(exaggeration) and they in their humble Navara's or whatever. They all work on the same house....
I tend to think this is going to end very badly for our childrens home affordability.

Al your whole stance on this matter is politically and ideologically based. Inflexible ideology is not a good basis for debate.

nairbe makes a good point.

Over the past fifty years or so we have venerated the university education, 'way above the learning of a trade. The idea of indentured apprenticeships has also largely died out, as the attraction of dossing around on campus for a few years has greater instant appeal.

The approach was first to pretend that everyone has a "right" to a university education. This increased demand, which forced an increase in supply, which has led - generally speaking - to a massive decline in tertiary education standards.

So if it is easy to get into, and is less demanding while you are there, it is hardly surprising that Uni is the more attractive choice our youth. Fewer people become tradespeople, demand continues to rise, prices go up.

Economic reality says that this will reverse itself over the next fifty years, as demand for really good tradespeople puts trade apprenticeships on the same level of earning-attractiveness to school-leavers as lawyering was back in the nineties.

In the meantime, it is going to continue to be appallingly difficult to find a plumber in inner-city Sydney.

And impossible to find a good one.

AGIR: an excellent thread.

I agree with all of your comments Pelican.

Carers - $18ph in most states, to clean and look after many Australians [in their 30's, 40's and 50's] elderly parents over many years.

The market, government and families of the elderly have contributed to this fact.

If Australians loved, acknowledged and valued their parents hard work raising them, either the elderly would not need daily or weekly carers in their homes, OR would be assisting their elderly parents themselves in some way OR would be ensuring that 'Carers' despatched to private homes and care, would be sufficiently paid for their care and services to their elderly parents.