Hi folks
the title is deliberately controversial, but it is grounded in the real world.

From the Fabians/Quintus thread it seems this is a logical jumping point.

TRISTAR STEERING and SUPENSION STRIKE.
This action hamstrung the whole automotive industry and brought all the political and union 'bees' out of the hive in a massive frenzy.

a) The issue. "Workers entitlements should be guaranteed and protected"
Information from the socialist perspective is here:
http://www.sa.org.au/component/content/article/121-edition-53/1001-unions-the-most-effective-form-of-protest

b) The problem for the community. In that same article we find this:

QUOTE
Fourthly, working class action can take up any issue. The Tristar strike, like most strikes, was around bread and butter issues of workers' wages, conditions, and entitlements - economic demands. But there is no reason why this same strike weapon couldn't, if workers chose, be used to support political demands.
UNQUOTE

I'm sure you can all see it..the morphing from 'industrial relations' to 'political dictatorship'

ELECTRICAL UNION EXTORTION OF THE VICTORIAN COMMUNITY.
Yallourn Power station dispute. The issue was the use of contractors which might weaken the position of permanent workers.
-My cousin was ONE of those permanent workers and he told me they used to sit around half the day because they were way overstaffed.
-The workforce was reduced from 12,000 to 3,000 after privatization.
Does not not say something about 'dead weight' workers?

WATER BILLS and ETU PAY DEMANDS.
450 electricians will be employed at the desalinaton plant. The construction phase wage is approx $150k each. An advert (yesterday) for an infrastructure job as an 'electrician' offered $120k-140k wages.

How...do we solve this spiralling greed and thuggery?

Al you ask "How...do we solve this spiralling greed and thuggery?"

We solve it by not always seeing the 'proletariat' as the enemy nor assuming the employer is always the innocent party who is painted as the downtrodden victim of workers and unions.

Let us take each industrial action on its merits or lack of merits. There will be times when the demands of unions/workers is unreasonable and other times when they are not.

It all depends I guess on what you see as reasonable. If the staff are lying around all day doing nothing then I suggest they are overstaffed and casual labour is sometimes a good way to fill gaps for times when you need to gear up. I don't know much about the energy industry but only ask that we keep an open mind and not jump to our first pre-conditioned conclusion.

There are certainly instances of thuggery and corruption within the union movement such as incidents of blackmail and holding builders to ransom which led to the deregistration of the BLF (by a Labor Government) but lets not forget in our quest for 'justice' the thuggery and corruption of some corporations and government regimes who seek to reduce the quality of life for employees in many instances while ignoring the excesses and corruption in the executive.

I always wonder why the anti-union mob never ask what quagmire the union movement rose out of in the first place. Historically it was because the conditions in some factories where abhorrent and without the union movement we would not see the changes to safety, wages and working hours that we have today.

Maybe some believe that we should mirror our IR system on that of Third World countries.

Dear Pelly

you said:

"We solve it by not always seeing the 'proletariat' as the enemy nor assuming the employer is always the innocent party who is painted as the downtrodden victim of workers and unions."

The 'proletariat' is only the enemy when they go wayyyy beyond reasonableness and take on a darker aspect.. such as the ELECTRICAL TRADES UNION and CFMEU do.

Can you imagine suddenly having a walk off during a concrete pour just to get wages or allowances SUCH as the Tristar debacle .. 4 weeks pay for each year of service?

The base rate for a builders laborer (on a construction site in Melbourne CBD) was $23/hour over 12 mnths ago. ADD to that all the other allowances and perks and you probably get $35/hour or more.

This for a bloke or girl who has no special training other than to "pick this up....hold that.. wheel that barrow there, dig a hole" etc.

There is nothing wrong with those things, but when others in society outlay $1000s for training, educaction and carry large educational debts into their early years of work.... there is something horribly wrong with such pay rates.

Add this the Desalination plant cost blowout and the outrageous, extortion like "mafia tax" of $150k for an electrician who can qualify after a 1 yr course...again.. something is horribly wrong.

You cannot get such money by qualifications...you can ONLY get it by thuggery and extortion. What is that likely to do to our community?

Boazy you do, truly have my sympathy.
No not patronizing you, I truly do not want to live in the non existent but dreadful world you inhabit.
Believe me words like proletariat are dead, unionists for the most part are the bloke next door.,
Yes some unions are off track, indeed dying but they are not the whole.
Once, as you know, I believed in God, my God if he existed may well not believe in you.
read the texts of Sir Robert Menzies on IR and unions.
You paint a picture of some thing that no longer exists.
one day I will open a debate on IR here.
But sorry No way I Want further contribute to this fallacy one.

Where does he get all this stuff from belly? It's like he's still living in the 1950s. Weird.

Hi Belly... and TBOY

nope..not the 50s.. the term 'proletariat' might be a bit oldish, but in the hot and heavy meetings of the inner circle of some Unions (old BLF ==>new CFMEU.. ETU) it is as up to date as today.

HERE'S HOW IT WORKS. (is working)

Step 1 "Make unsustainable but financially attractive wage/condition/pension demands on employers (labor unions) or the State(public service unions)

Step 2 Step 1 ensures that 'your' people are elected to union leadership. (along with intimidation, thuggery and extortion)

Step 3 When desired conditions are implemented. (example ETU "negotiated" EBA's for Desalination plant which give them (and plumbers) $150k wages.

Step 4 When the country goes into financial meltdown, (see USA and Greece now) YOU are:

a) Organized
b) Able to scream at the 'draconian financial measures' promised by the newly elected conservatives which 'attack workers rights' etc and pensions and entitlements and conditions, which raises the ire of your union members, who then are happy to take to the streets, along with every sympathetic group you can muster) See Greece and UK and Ireland today.
c) From this, there is a greater chance you can bring down a government, and then use your power to install your own... or at least one over which you have controlling influence.

OUTCOME ?

The "Party" members are still looked after (Union members) and the others (traitors to the working classes) are left out to dry and rot because they are not 'members' of the 'party'.

SO.... those of us who don't want an Orwellian world of glazed eyed drones, managed by those (Party members) who find the slightest murmer for justice and equality and a voice to be a 'thought crime'....it is up to us to make a stand, fight this trend, and actually DO something about it.