""" We need to look closer to the 'earning potential' of a person... irrespective of their training. """

Well we should allow the free market to determine the value of a persons labour irrespective of their earning potential or their training. We should determine the value of their labour by what we deem it worth.

A drugged up footballer has a much greater "earning potential" than a surgeon and consequently earns more, but to me when I'm sick, a surgeon's value far outweighs that of a footballer. So in my opinion a surgeon should be paid a hell of a lot more.

As to your problems with militant unions or just unions in general, I don't know where to start. They just create so many problems throughout all of society and the mere fact that so many see them as their ultimate vanguard. I think your energies could be better spent attacking the root cause, which is what you were trying to bring to attention in your other thread, progressive socialism.

Unions are just trying to score a bit more of the dwindling pie brought about by progressive socialism, which is an irony really.

Hi Raw

I think the militant unions are the 'communist' expression.. whereas the Fabian Socialists (Gillard and company) are the 'soft' wolf in sheeps clothing..but they both have the same objective.

Progressive socialism is a root 'symptom' :) but not the root cause.

As will all political and social behavior, it comes back to 'us'.

DIAGNOSIS?

Jeremiah 17.9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

GOD'S MEDICINE?

10 "I the LORD search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve."

Yep.. my neighbour told me about this local businessman (very VERY rich) who took so much viagra to keep his end of the bargain 'up' :)
and who would 'root anything that moved' (his words).. but one day.. on a journey in a car to some place.. he just keeled over and spat lifes dummy.. in a horrible way. Overdosed on Viagra!

Jason Moran and the Irish controlled Painters and Dockers union.. well we all know what happened to him.

Alphonse Gangitano..standover man... we know what happened to him..(Jason Moran happened to him)

McGurk... standover man... gunned down.

Radev.... standover man.... gunned down.

Carlton crew.. Mick Gatto alone left standing

Karl Williams... biff punch whack.... dead.

It will catch up with the ETU and CFMEU in time..

Who decides the value of someone's work.

According to the Right Wing - your lot Al, it is the amount people are willing to pay, so if an electrician is earning $150K a year the people must be willing to pay the cost - the free market and all that.

Why are some doctors paid less than celebrities? Their work is certainly more valuable. It is the market. Unions are part of that market and the higher the top end salaries go up the more disadvantaged the bottom end salaries become as prices rise.

Why does and average CEO earn $2K per hour (based on the lower end of a CEO range) but we whine when a cleaner or shop assistant wage goes up to (if he/she is lucky) to $25/hr.

We all agree the CEO has more pressure and works longer hours and has to meet targets, but history has shown huge payouts and bonuses even in the event of failure. Well some cleaners work long hours too, often doing two jobs - some might need to if they want to afford food and other living costs. Everyone would agree the CEO should earn more, but a difference of that much?

Who decides what price to put on occupational 'worth' what would such an equation have to factor?

It is all relative Al. We would take you concerns about greed more seriously if you also highlighted the most rampant and influential greed in society which is generally not found where you seek it.

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=4044#100209

AGiR, Spot on Buddy, but WHY have the getup/labour Clayton's Communist Party over the last decade or so, gone so completely GAGA about "Infrastructure Spending"?

Their "Focus Groups" have been telling them that "Blue Collar Workers" are turning away from "The Darkness". The loudest critic recently has been, you guessed it, the ETU guy. He disaffiliated from the ALP, joined the Red/greens & has been donating union funds to them, instead.

The BER, insulation, etc, rip offs are just the tip of the iceberg. One of the earlier projects in Brisvegas, before Clem7 was the extensions to the Bus-ways. I know of one contractor who was encouraged to increase prices by 50%.

With some of the other Anti Workers policies the ALP has championed for 50 years now they have alienated many workers & have been desperate to "Buy Them Back" & they will leave no taxpayers dollar unspent, in their desperate quest to regain some popularity.

Of course admitting they were ever wrong about any of their past "Evils" & undoing the past damage done, appears to be beyond their tiny minds, especially when they can spend, spend, spend, those mining royalties & GST revenues.

Pelican an adult shop assistant in permanent employment at the big supermarkets earns $17 - $18 per hour gross.

Al, i must say you are sounding like the socialists you hate so much. Let's control who get's what and why they get it, less for those uneducated fools that slog their guts out under ground removing resources so the company bosses can take massive unjustifiable bonuses.
How can you say a trades man is not worth their money. Trades are very highly skilled and require a life time of experience to be the best but somehow because they don't have a doctorate you belittle them. Well i am in the building industry and i can tell you the greedy fat cats are the banks, real estate agents, council fee's, government red tape, and most of all insurance companies. Do you know how much asset a builder must have before they can build a home? I too would again need to check but it was in the six figure area. Where do you think this money comes from? fairy land.
Get your feet on the ground mate, it is not the common worker that is killing this country, it is the arrogant over educated fools that run our financial institutions and insurance companies. Greed ridden real estate agents that push prices higher and higher with pressure auctions and scare tactics, on and on it goes. I can assure you in todays world $23 dollar an hour including what ever extras they may get on top is not much, you are clearly one of those grossly over paid management morons that send companies and nations broke.