Not 'no' women, RObert but most women. Feminists who write books do not represent all women and many of those feminist books do not degrade men. The same goes for men in regard to discussions about rape with all manner of arguments to 'criminalise' victims.

This topics assumes that there are "no men" demonising women at all when clearly there are men who still believe that women should stay in 'their place' whatever that means. Single mothers are demonised more than any group I can think of while single fathers are congratulated for the great job they are doing on their own. It works both ways.

My point does not mean to diminish your experience RObert and I have never argued that men are not being abused just that it does not represent the majority of DV cases but that does not mean violence towards men is being condoned and I agree more should be done to highlight the problem.

Reading some of the Men's Rights groups sites (not all) one finds they are heavily demonising women often quite vitriolic, more than any piece of feminist literature I have read.

My point is that if you find a real anomaly in our society then stand up and fight for it but only if it is real and not imagined or exagerated because of some other agenda.

We have talked often on OLO about the unfairness in the Family Law in relation to men but this is changing and that is the sort of issue that needs to be talked about and that has resulted in the changes we see today.

What is happening to women overseas is important and makes all our bourgeoise worries here quite insignificant by comparison but NO I am not arguing that we cannot improve our own gender worries and that they are unimportant. My own hope is that we start taking a humanist approach to these problems rather than a purely gender defensive one and I am just as guilty of that as well.

James' story about the schoolboys was horrifying. The boys were expelled when they did absolutely nothing wrong. The girls were handed too much power to use allegations to hurt others.

In schools and starting very young, any girl who acts upset instantly gets the support squad. Girls who don't join in are ostracised. The message that gives the girls is that the way to be center of attention is to become the victim. While that hurts the 'villan' who gets his (or her) actions blown out of context, we should be more concerned about the message that this behaviour gives to girls. Some spend their whole life seeking to be the victim.

The second link in JamesH last post demonstrates how situations such as the touching of the girls breasts can be mishandled. Boys have to be taught that such behaviour is not acceptable but it should be handled in such a way as to 'teach' rather than ostracise.

It seems in this case the girls were ostracised as well for speaking out about the events. A too common occurrence as well.

'Boys being boys' is not an excuse to behave badly, children need to learn what is wrong and what is right in a healthy environment including girls. Teaching kids about mutual consent and personal space can be done without criminalising or demonising everyone.

Let's not start getting too politically correct about damaging kid's egos just because we tell them they got a sum wrong or touched a girl on the breast. Kids are smarter than that and they inherently know what is wrong and what is right.

This case may have been mishandled but it does not 'criminalise' boyhood. That is a big stretch.

'There's nothing left to make you want to own them any more.'

Hahahahaa!

Cant say I've ever had a desire to own a woman. Now that whole post and the expressed 'attitude to women' is exactly what the FSC are always on about. I don't know whether it's a wind-up, but even if it isn't, I don't think just by that 'attitude' some girl somewhere else will be raped by another individual. I'm also pretty sure an expressed attitude is not always the real person, and quite likely his wife owns him. And he loves it.

I think the female posters might have it all wrong. Maybe we object to the portrayal of men so much because we cant relate and cant fathom the actions of other men. But once you say the problem with the world is men's 'attitude to women', then you are claiming all men are responsible for every thing any other man does.

It has to be a wind up. Surely.

579, are you serious?

Is it all a parody of an elderly extremist religious type or do you really believe what you say?

R0bert

I just reread that link about the school situation. In teaching kids about appropriate behaviour we also need to teach girls about responsibility and safe behaviours ie. what the consequences might be if you send pictures of your breasts to a boy. It sounds like the school gave a knee-jerk reaction without just handling it in-house with all the kids and parents involved.

Houlley
Men are more violent than women. Even men keep telling us it is their biology but that does not mean there are no violent women nor does it mean that all men are violent. Violent crimes are committed by men but women have been guilty of child abuse whether physically violent or neglectful.

We could go on all day listing the crimes of men and women but what is the point.

I grew up in a working class city and when on the booze the men often became violent and street and pub brawls were common. They were nearly always men but that was the 70s - and it does appear more young women are acting out violently but they are also a minority.

Maybe that is conditioning more than nature - the jury is still out on that one. And no, I don't think only women can be victims, if that is what you read then you have misread my posts. The term victim has become a dirty word it shouldn't be. A relative of mine worked voluntarily for the Victims of Crime group and the pain and grief of victims and their loved ones is very real. I have also worked in a field where I came into contact with people who were in the process of putting their lives back together due to violent crime. Being confronted with those experiences was a bit of a reality check.

Victimhood is not the same thing as being a victim (men and women can be victims).