rache,

"...the 911 terrorists were actually trained in the USA."

This is the sort of cherry picking annoys me. Assuming you're talking about them paying a private flight school to teach them how to fly. Makes think you're just another Arjay.

Belly,
<<<Let us forget the funny stuff what do you think? Truly>>>

You are getting to sound like Barnaby Joyce on election night:
“ Okay Tony Windsor who will you join …just give us your answer?”

<<< both major party's say stay >>>

Yes we know, but since formulating that policy Julia has acquired a lot of little green friends/house-mates who favour a cut an run policy in Afghanistan –in fact, a cut an run policy practically everywhere!

<<<Can we win >>>
YES WE CAN !

The Taliban hasn’t got a hope in hell of defeating us on the battlefield. Our main danger comes from the “lefties” at home who don’t want us to win.


By our standards there isn’t a regime in the region that is not
somewhat corrupt (in fact some of our own state govts --and dare I say it, unions--may suffer a similar malady) But if you are going to throw up you hands and give up because the Karzai regime is less than perfect, you’re never going to get anywhere or do anything – it is a foundation, a starting point.

Can we defeat the Taliban –YES WE CAN!
Can we transform Afghanistan into a stable, democratic, modern state --- YES WE CAN!

Were we able to transform post-war Japan, German,South Korea?

*Also, I personally rather there be a country for all the fundamentalists to go to, than to look at other societies to settle in (ideally one with a cushier lifestyle- eg us).
It would also reduce motivation to conduct retaliatory terrorist attacks,*

If only it were so simple, Hazza. But you misunderstand the core
militant ideology, as preached by Qutb at the time and the aims
of the extremists. That is a complete overthrow of the West,
so that your grankids too, will bow to Allah 5 times a day etc.

See Al Qaeda more as a franchise with Bin Laden as the pin up boy.
But it is not one group, literally hundreds of groups, located
globally.

Wahabi Islam, a strict and severe form, was spread by Saudi
petrodollars, as a deal done between the Sauds and Wahabs.
The Salafists, militants, are an offshoot of all of this.
Money, which is required for all of this, flows globally too.

The day we walk out of Afgahnistan, will be the day that the
miltants celebrate that the win is Allahs will, it will
enbolden even those in SA Asia, to more militant attacks.

Whilst Zawahiri, no2 pinup boy, is forced to hide in the
hills, and drones are taking out another few of the top
militants every few days, they are forced to focus on
their own lives to defend, not on their plan for global
jihad.

So I think Obama is correct. The stakes are so high,
that it is worth trying what seems to have worked
in Iraq

So WHAT if they 'celebrate it as a win'?
What afterwards? Nothing. They decide they CAN retain their domestic security and see less need in trying to attack us elsewhere in order to achieve it. They will see less reason in using sleeper cells in our country, out of Europe, and most of the more moderate Middle East; and pull them out.
Better they think they can win defending their home countries than win messing with ours domestically, don't you think?

We are more under threat specifically from the extremists we LET IN WILLINGLY into our country and ALLOWING the Saudi petrodollars to contribute to their schemes- which, interestingly enough, never go specifically to Al Queda because Al Queda's primary goal is to overthrow the Saudis.

Personally I'd rather sacrifice one rather fundamentalist country if it means the rest of the world (including most of the middle east which IS trying to actually go moderate) can get a reprieve from these psychos and their violence.

This is the ONLY way these people will be out of our hair.
Really you people need to think a LOT more about this.

*which, interestingly enough, never go specifically to Al Queda because Al Queda's primary goal is to overthrow the Saudis.*

Nope Hazza, you still don't understand the ideology. Take your time
to understand what Qutb preached in his "Milestones" to understand
what they want. Its available for free on the net.

Taking over Saudi Arabia is indeed a goal, but not the final one.
The militants know that if Saudi Arabia shuts down its oil
supply tomorrow, the West will basically collapse.

That is what they want, that is their long term goal.

I suspect that Yabby has basically got it right.
When the Taliban had full control of Afghanistan they used it as a
base to train their operatives.
It gave them total freedom for all types of training and planning.
I just don't see that they have learnt the lesson of the East African
embassies and 9/11 repercussions.

The wahabees are influential in Indonesia which of course is our more
direct interest.
Just because we defeat them does not mean they will not simply start
up again. They are working to a different time scale to us.
To kill 50 of them means 50 go to paradise. Isn't that good ?

I am beginning to think that if the fanatics cannot be killed off
then the only solution would seem to be to destroy the religion.
But how do you do that ?

About the only solution that I can see is to consider Islam to be an
overhead on civilisation that we have to continually beat down and
spend lives doing that work.
It is intolerable of course but they do have the intention to make us
all moslems or kill us as the alternative.

What the hell else do you do ?