http://www.news.com.au/national/muslim-women-protest-against-push-to-ban-burka-in-australia/story-e6frfkvr-1225926494355

There you go Hazza. Already the locals are complaing that you are
waging a "war on Islam" for trying to ban their burka. So you are
seen to be persecuting them, as an evil infidel. That's all it takes
to fight their jihad against you and your seemingly wicked ways.

Hazza, you are clearly doomed :)

.

How arjay can you be so blind? even China a sponsor of Iran grows weary with them.
KH note yabbys information for those unaware in this country yesterday NOT Afghanistan.
2000 people gathered to hear a speaker say our way of life was decadent.
We had no right to want the burka banned, every right to make me take my bike helmet of before walking into a bank but none to stop women hiding their faces.
What do we fight for Afghanistan?
Do we sit back and let our own country bend to those who will not bend to us?

Yabby, your point about ratio of fuel dependencies IS irrelevant because in a fuel crisis there could easily be a mass conversion to a different source- and with so many alternatives based on abundant fuel sources, and of course domestic oil supplies to carry the consumer over until the transfer, it IS a null point.

Discrimination? This kind of discrimination is the same that is practiced in many Muslim countries like Bosnia (who deported mujahadeen) and Turkey. And for that matter, much of Europe and it has not attracted any attention so far to say it is enough (but that would be the place where we would be to fight the fundamentalists when it comes down to it).

Embassies? Again, under the category of repelling infidels- or attacking USA and Israel. And again, a domestic crime.

And it HAS worked so far in Iraq- the Iraqis are fundamentally opposed to Al Queda, Wahabis and Salafists- even the nationalist rebels who attacked us fought against them too. The Iraqi people and government are more moderate and willing to make this work, in the face of sectarian attacks by criminal groups and warlords.

Afghanistan- despite being there for a considerably longer period, and lacking the ethnic divisions and historical conflict, has made little progress. Now the government (who were are defending- or should we overthrow them too?) is willing to join up with the Taliban.

And your link to the Burqa protest holds no water- for your point to be correct a terrorist would have to travel from another country on a tourist visa just to commit a terrorist attack.
And no, we aren't going to 'bend over',

If you can't differentiate not attacking foreign countries to avoid the primary motivation for terrorism against not making concessions to wahabis at home I really think I'm wasting my time. This is about getting out of a country that has nothing to do with us and clearly does not want to go moderate, and getting our own freedom back by not having to pander to their superstitions abroad so our troops don't get attacked.

*Yabby, your point about ratio of fuel dependencies IS irrelevant because in a fuel crisis there could easily be a mass conversion to a different source- and with so many alternatives based on abundant fuel sources*

Its not a null point Hazza, because although dreams and theories
are in place, infrastructure is not in place to make it happen.
If the Straits of Hormuz close tomorrow, we are in deep doodoo
next month, not next year, in 5 years, in 10 years.

Yes we would survive, but not pleasantly. Whole industries would
close overnight, tens of millions would be unemployed, etc.

Fact is that the global economy still is hooked on and depends on
ME oil. That is why the US is there and stays there. Without them,
the Arabs would all be squabbling and killing each other. We've
seen it all before. The region is still tribal by nature.

*Discrimination?*

Hazza, what you think is discrimination and what they think is
discrimination, are two different subjects. All that matters
is their perception. If bin Laden declares you guilty, there
will be no trial and jury, just revenge for persecuting Islam,
in his perception of things.

*Afghanistan- despite being there for a considerably longer period, and lacking the ethnic divisions and historical conflict, has made little progress.*

That is because Afghanistan was put on the backburner, whilst Bush
focussed on Iraq. There are indeed ethnic divisions, Hazaras versus
Pashtuns for example. Iraq made little progress until they let
Petreus have a go with new ideas. He has now been moved to
Afghanistan, to try his skills there. Fair enough, we'll see what
happens in the next 18 months. Obama has made it clear that he
is not staying forever.

*for your point to be correct a terrorist would have to travel from another country on a tourist visa just to commit a terrorist attack.*

Hazza, if you haven't yet noticed, the zealots do in fact travel,
"just" to commit terrorist attacks.

It IS a null point because every single country has an alternate fuel and infrastructure already in place which it can transfer to immediately, and presently IS.

"Hazza, if you haven't yet noticed, the zealots do in fact travel,
"just" to commit terrorist attacks."
Care to list them?
That is, every terrorist attack committed in the West by somebody who migrated there to commit said attack or had prior literature to indicate hostile intents for travelling, AND this country was NOT related to a conflict back in the Middle East? and made a statement that was completely void of some kind of foreign policy issue?

Also, it has become quite sad that YOU are now advocating WE surrender to terrorists domestically so we do not offend them- just for the sake of arguing with me. So far I'm still waiting for Saudi or Afghani citizens to travel to Switzerland to avenge the minaret bans or France to avenge the Burqa bans.
Also, any terrorist attack that would happen would have nothing to do with the Taliban and could just as easily occur without it.

My point, again, is that we're putting the primary motives for terrorism on our heads purely for the purpose of staying in a conflict that is of zero benefit to anybody outside Afghanistan. I personally don't want to risk that (and risk instability and a stronger heroin trade from the lawlessness) just for the sake of protecting a fundamentalist country with a corrupt taliban-endearing government from a more fundamentalist militant group. However, my personal freedoms domestically I am quite happy to fight for. Quite simple really.

It's almost as if deep down you think the issue is that if we withdraw, terrorists will be emboldened and will start a campaign of conquest? But if we stop them they'll be totally demoralized and too scared to mess with us- Is that it?
Because world events point in exactly the opposite direction to the Team America explanation.

Playing dumb and failing to offer contradictions beyond vague hypotheticals based on limited perceptions is not helping- just wasting my time.

*It IS a null point because every single country has an alternate fuel and infrastructure already in place which it can transfer to immediately, and presently IS*

Sheesh Hazza, if that were the case, we need not worry about the
price of oil, for the moment it goes up, we can switch to something
else. Why did those silly people pay 150$ a barrel, when demand
got ahead of supply? Only the GFC put a brake on it.

*Care to list them?*

Care to do your own frigging homework a bit better?

The head of Al Qaeda in Iraq, was a Jordanian. The shoe bomber
was Morrocan IIRC, in both Germany and France they have arrested
all sort of nationalities. In Afghanistan itself, there are all sorts
of Arab nationalities.

*Also, it has become quite sad that YOU are now advocating WE surrender to terrorists domestically so we do not offend them- just for the sake of arguing with me.*

No, I'm pointing out how easily you can become a target of Islamic
extremists. Rushdie just wrote a book upsetting them, that was
enough.

*It's almost as if deep down you think the issue is that if we withdraw, terrorists will be emboldened and will start a campaign of conquest?*

You are getting warm Hazza, for of course when Russia walked away,
suddenly Allah had made it happen, they then had a secure base from
which to operate and focus on their global conquest. Next we had
911 etc. Right now they are back in the hills, nervously watching
overhead, as American drones take them out, a few at a time.
Obama did not increase drone activity for nothing. So far the
results have been spectacular.