Mr Abbott is now a lone wolf.

The big miners and Labor are now as one, signed sealed and delivered.

Mr Abbott has made a commitment to rescind the mining deal should he become Prime Minister.

It's clear that Mr Abbott is now the KISS OF DEATH for the Liberal Party at the upcoming election.

I think that at some stage over the next few months Mr Hockey will be announced as the new Liberal leader; better late than never. After the Liberal election loss Mr Hockey will then also be replaced (for obvious reasons).

The Liberals will very quickly realise that they can't possibly win with Mr Abbott at the helm, owing to the Labor/miners deal. With Mr Hockey at the helm there will be MUCH less voter damage, plus they can also go into the election WITHOUT the commitment to rescind the miners' deal with Labor.

So I'll get in first ......... let me congratulate you Joe on being the new Liberal leader. I'm sure you'll be just as successful as Mr Howard was at the last election, and just as successful as Mr Nelson, Mr Turnbull and Mr Abbott. Congratulations ........ but keep an eye on your back.

I think Joe Hockey will make an entertaining Opposition leader, once Abbott loses the election next month :)

Joe Hockey looks- and behaves- like the most crooked low-time dodgy used-car salesman that walked the earth.
In fact, Turnbull was little different.

I really don't get how anyone would endorse either of these two unless;
1- Out of pure desperation to be rid of Labor, they only care that they're more dynamic in a debate on TV (even though neither can actually make a case as much as put on a good show) and hope that this will make the chumps in Labor look silly.
2- they're gullible idiots (which really applies to the above too).

It's becoming harder to tell which people are promoting the 'moderate, small L liberal' myths about these men (which are total rubbish), are purely spin-doctors or people that sincerely believe it.

Mr Hockey, who I think will be placed in the leadership role maybe a mere month or two before the election, will be even more inept than Mr Abbott. But he's not personally encumbered by Mr Abbott's unequivocal determination to rescind the agreement with the miners. Mr Hockey will stage manage a Liberal reversal on the issue (for the sake of more votes at the election).

Both these men are aggressive and immature, and unsuited to lead a political party in our type of democracy. I think that's a pity. We need good, honest, strong opposition, regardless of the political orientation of the opposition.

It is difficult for me to see that anyone could persuade Mr Hockey to take on the leadership of the Liberals before the next election. That sort of last minute leadership change is usually only successful when victory is assured, a la Hawke/Hayden. One would imagine that either Hockey or Turnbull is more likely to take the reins after defeat in the coming election with a view in mind to resurrecting Liberal chances for the election following.

Who then?
I understand Hockey has the lead but Turnbull has[given recent lessons] the ability.
Who from todays front bench could step up.
Why do Liberals produce people like Bronwyn Bishop Julie Bishop Minchin and Pyne?
Surely they sell only to welded on conservatives.
It is true in time a conservative revival will take place, in my view it will be small l Liberalism.
And apart from America [a country full of Chis Pynes and Julie Bishops ] it will be more attractive to voters.
A start must be made however at the grass roots the Branch's must be retrieved from Minchin matadors

I can't see the lib's going for a change of leadership at this point. As I understand it Gillard can pretty much call an election whenever she want's, Abbott's not doing anything outstandingly bad at the moment (by politicians standards) and for those who like such things (as political powerbrokers tend to) he's taking some of the credit for Rudd's downfall.

A change of leadership for the lib's is unlikely to change the voting patterns if an election is held weeks later.

I get the impression that Abbott has done a good job as an opposition leader to counter Rudd (harming the governments reputation being the standard they seem to strive for), I'm wondering how his style will go against Gillard and most have concerns about him as a PM.

R0bert

I can't believe you lot.

Having given us Whitlam & Latham, a couple of incredibly incompetent, but arrogant ratbags as leaders, then Rudd, an arrogant twit, you start talking about what the libs should do. You even suggset Turnbull, another arrogant twit should be recycled.

I think you should concentrate on finding someone a bit better than what you have just promoted.

You are saying all the same stuff you gabbled about Rudd just a couple of years ago. It's obvious you want arrogance in your leaders, it seems to go with the mind set. It is just a pity that you can't find anyone one would want to take home to dinner.

Thankyou Hasbeen for posting here- I breathe a sigh of relief now some common sense is in this thread- don't think it will last for long.
Especially when the complaints here about there being "no opposition" on the grounds of the Liberal party alone being complete tosh these days.

Also, I imagine many of these people WOULD idolize an arrogant pollie on the grounds that they can stick it to the "other party" alone (as if it were a sports game and they were rooting for the 'winning team', and very much would take them home.
As a consequence, Australia will continue to be a stagnant country quickly falling behind the rest of the world in terms of services, technology, infrastructure, living standards and wealth, and assume its everyone else's fault but their own- because they keep voting arrogant crooks who don't give a s*it and suddenly become surprised when they don't actually DO anything except focus on their own careers.

Been happening for decades.

I can’t imagine how the Libs could have a snowflakes chance in hell of winning the next election, no matter who their leader might be or what they might do.

Um…that’s it! I can’t think of anything else to add!! ( :>|

It is going to be interesting to see
what happens at the next election.
I don't believe that the
Liberal Party will replace Tony Abbott
prior to the election. As for after
the election? I guess it all depends
on the election results - doesn't it?

Joe Hockey, or Malcolm Turnbull, Julie
Bishop or Kevin Andrews?

Do any of them really qualify as leaders
of a country? Would you buy a used car
from any of them?

I wouldn't buy a used car of any of them, at the moment Foxy.

The points of difference are now so blurred, it is hard to differentiate
between both major parties.

If both parties feel through their internal polling that they have
a handle on the Australian psyche, then most of us are xenophobic,
most of us fear little (if at all ?) that corporations can interfere with
or influence our domestic politics, our economic policy, our social outcomes,
our resources etc, most of us are apathetic regarding the independence or integrity
of our democracy whilst pretending to ourselves that we are a model of democracy
and success.

Who cares who wins.

I agree with R0bert and Foxy that it is unlikely for a change of leadership of the Libs at this point in time. Better that Abbott lose the election in order to clear the deck for a new party leader.

My preference would've been for Turnbull - had he not cracked his credibility via the Gordon Grech fiasco.

The depth of actual leadership talent in the Liberal party is as thin as their concern for the well-being of all Australians - it is all about big business and economics, the thinking does not extend beyond that. Except for Turnbull, who at least understands our dependency on our physical environment.

Julie Bishop (in fact both Bishops) do not possess a single original thought. Joe Hockey - appears to be a buffoon, however I am sure he is far more savvy, he is one to watch. The important lesson for the Libs to learn is that offering Howard era ideology is over, anachronistic and will further alienate voters.

One thing I do know for sure is that Gillard will be our new ELECTED PM and the Greens will increase their percentage.

Considering that Abbott brought labor from an all time high to its knees in just six months, it is unlikely that even a loss to a re badged labor would result in his ouster.

Quite the contrary, as he has proved to be the giant killer, he would be kept in place to continue to shred Labor's credibility.

I notice that in spite of the rebound in popularity of Labor, the Morgan polls indicate little bounce for labor in Queensland or WA in marginal seats.

SM

You're dreamin'

Shadow Minister,

There has been nothing particularly dynamic about Abbott's stint as opposition leader (unless I've missed something) - you give him too much credit for Rudd's demise. He is a mediocre political personality at best - certainly not a giant killer

for once in his life..Benq might actually be right.

But there is a solution .. *waves at Tony*...

TONY.. if you want to win... do these things.

1/ Stop worrying about "Phony Tony" stuff and ram home the 'Gullible Gillard' mantra

2/ Stop speaking like you are worried about every syllable being processed by the Labor Mean Machine to recycle as 'PhonyTony' propaganda.

3/ Get RIGHT away from an emmissions TRADING scheme and lay it down quick smart about how it is just a left/green/socialist money tree.

4/ ASSYLUM/COUNTRY SHOPPERS Forget a 'pacific solution' and do the following:

a) Hold CAPTAINS AND CREWS accountable and jail them for life..and spread that message far and wide in Indonesia. They are in fact 'people smugglers' themselves. (when the boats have stopped.. let em go :) if they keep coming.. keep them in jail as an example...for as long as it takes...or demand ransoms of a million per person from their families. (should at least get good publicity)

b) Make us of Article 31 in the Refugee convention and send them BACK for disqualifiying themselves by improper conduct and criminality.

OK...you now have the program.. just use it.. no charge.. it's free.
I guarantee you will have at least 3 if not more Melbourne Eastern suburbs marginal electorates batting for you.

OLO Shadow Minister and Hasbeen is not an Oxford style debate.
That could be won on the value of words even untrue ones.
Here we, all of us, tell what we think the outcomes may be.
Based on history, Hawk deposing his leader, Turnbull being shafted.
Howard too was removed, his words went something like this on being asked would he return to leadership.
That would be Lazarus with a triple bypass.
Followers of both party's often have reasons to follow that they think are shared by all in that party.
Often they are quite wrong SM and H are such followers Turnbull can do a Howard.
In my party some, so very wrongly demand socialism and a host of things we do not, forget the pledge seek.
A party, those who best serve it, must confront daily the best out comes for the party.
Abbott has lost his leverage, polling from now till kick off will prove that.
If another leader can save just 5 seats we will see change before the election.
The election after this one will see an ETS in place, no mining tax dispute and a whole new path for the still opposition as they come to understand putting policy's that are of interest only to the SM and HB are not winning new votes

Benj, in normal circumstances I would agree with you, however, the so called 'deal' with the miners has only been met with the largest three, all of which I think are majority OS owned conglomorates.

So, given the fact that there are some 90 plus smaller miners, that have not been considered in this new deal, I doubt one can call this a victory.

Then there are the list of failures, most of which madam PM was at the forefront of descision making team for, solar, insulation, education, all of which have the potential to cost the tax payers (voters) billions.

Then of cause we have the gays and the churchies she has already upset.

So I feel it's a little to early to start crowing just yet cause there is plently of mud throwing in front of the election.

Finally, the voting public are fully aware that one hot day doesn't make a summer and, that Madam PM is clearly trying to 'get her ducks in a row' in readiness for an upcomming election, which of cause, she is unable to call yet as she doesn't yet have enough runs on the board.

You really must think the voting public are easily led. Or should that be, 'mis-led'!

I've just been given a glimpse of the latest
add that the Liberal Party is
going to display against Labor - on TV.

To me it illustrates the old adage,
"Stupidity is better kept a secret than
displayed."

The advertisement smacks of a Party that
is grabbing at straws when it has nothing else
to offer. It reeks of desperation. And it
will definitely backfire against the Liberal Party.
Voters don't like dirty tactics of this kind, and
are not that easily led. And this add definitely
has "gutter tactics" written all over it.

Sympathy will go to Labor. Stupid, stupid, move
by Tony Abbott and Co.

I think Gillard will go to an early election as the world economy will only get worse.I'm going to look for a good independant to vote for.The Global banksters are bringing in severe austerity measures to make us pay for their phoney money and derivatives.

Both the major parties do the bidding of the large Corporates.They have sold this country out.Even the Greens have sold themselves to the highest bidder.

So don't vote for either of them.

Arjay, you can't vote for an independent without your vote ending up counting for one of the two big bozos, such is the wonder of our totally antidemocratic compulsory preferential system.

If you vote for an independent, the important thing you need to do is decide which of the major parties you put last and second last, as your vote will filter down and end up counting for the one you put second last, unless of course you vote for no one and put in a null vote.

<<Both the major parties do the bidding of the large Corporates.They have sold this country out.>>

YEP

<<So don't vote for either of them>>

Which means not voting for anyone, unless some other candidate is purported to have a genuine chance of winning, which in the vast majority of seats is not going to happen.

Rehctub, yes the deal is with the 3 big miners. These miners DOMINATE and CONTROL the industry. The small time miners do what they're told and almost always follow the leaders. Why? Because history shows they profit by doing so. As sure as the sun will rise tomorrow morning, almost ALL the small miners will come aboard........after doing the "obligatory" whinging for a short time. Mr Abbott is ALONE on the issue. This is why he's the KISS OF DEATH for the Liberals at the upcoming election. This is why he'll be suddenly replaced. The Liberals, being just as unprincipled as Labor, will do ANYTHING to avoid voter damage .......... so welcome aboard Mr Hockey. Enjoy your time as leader, it won't last long.

Arjay, the world's economy will only get BETTER, not worse! Debt, BIG debt, is NOT a problem. It only becomes a problem if it can NEVER be paid back. The world is VERY aware of this fact these days, and any problems are nipped in the bud. This causes "temporary" setbacks to recovery, setbacks that last about a month or so, then recovery continues along it's merry way till the next setback. **THAT'S** how recovery works when it's well managed. In several years time we will be in the middle of another lengthy BOOM! And I bet the current mob of doomsday merchants are now eagerly setting up their investments with glee. Why? It's to their advantage to talk down the economy, grab early opportunity, and reap the resulting massive rewards they know are coming. The doomsday merchants have about as much integrity as the average politician! But they're not stupid. They invest in bad times, and sell in boom times, which is the EXACT OPPOSTIE of what laypeople do. The unaware general public invests in boom times and sells in gloom times ...... that's a recipe for personal financial disaster.

I ask this question what is an election for?
What ten things are highest on your list of wanted outcomes.
Those like Arjay seem to want anarchy.
King Hazza a greens government.
The out come of this election will be important for most of us.
Few will get everything they want from the results.
But most, more than 50%will get the best outcome possible.
Now boat people, yes think about it, why will JG change the current laws.
Can it be good intentions and all, more want to control our doorway than not.
That more votes are lost by arrivals than won by stopping them.
The idea that Julia is changing policy's only to win votes is spin, bought on by conservative fear, just maybe she is doing what won Howard elections.
Julia will not shut our boarders, she may control what she can.
The anti politician spin we Aussies love to throw is funny.
Tell me of one lawyer car sales man real estate sales man, even look into your mirror, we all carry the same self interest within us.
Abbott is as bad as any in recent history, and about to become history.

<<…the world's economy will only get BETTER, not worse!>>

How do you figure that, benq?

As populations grow, primary resources become harder to attain not least oil, and as our environment degrades, economies will decline both in per-capita terms and in absolute terms. Debt and other stresses will manifest themselves and national economies will be very seriously affected.

The booms will be shorter or absent and the busts will be much much bigger.

This is perhaps the biggest shortcoming of Abbott and indeed Gillard and all leaders before them – the lack of realisation that in Australia as in most other countries, the whole system is built on a house of cards, which WILL come tumbling down or at least be very seriously damaged when our chronically unsustainable supply and demand system reaches crunch point.

The very best thing that the Libs can do is to embrace a regime of genuine sustainability and to start expressing the dire situation that we will be in if we continue to grow our population, rely so heavily on export income from primary resources and remain addicted to oil.

The Libs need to set themselves up as the sustainability party that we have simply GOT to have, and to make themselves look very different to the Labs, and very attractive to the ordinary voter.

Abbott can’t do this. He’d have no credibility. Hockey couldn’t either. But perhaps Scott Morrison could if he were to become leader.

1. With regards to Hockey. Never will be PM. Fat jovial people never get taken seriously. Looks and acts too much like the Aussie Home Loans guy. Never seen them in the same place at the same time. Maybe the Libs should have that slogan, "We'll save ya!".

2. Abbott won't get voted for by women. They find him creepy. Even though it's taboo to talk about Barron Gillard's (I prefer the spelling and further 'red' connotations) de-facto family arrangement as if it has a bearing on her values and hence suitability, Abbot's religiosity is fair game.

3. My policy is to vote all incumbent governments out. Why encourage the ineptitude we currently have. Until one government impresses me, it's the only way. If NSW government was shown the door regardless of the opposition, we'd be in a better state. Federal Labor is already on the way to becoming like NSW Labor. Many NSW voters agree with me. A pre-emptive strike is needed. We should vote governments out not in, as they vary very little in quality, and the longer a government is in power the more arrogant they become. See J.Howard.

4. Everyone should put labour and liberal candidates last and second last on the paper. Only way to get any message through. Apart from the luck of being rung by a polling agency. Polling agencies are the closest form of democracy we have. The only way to have your voice heard.

5. The papers have decided Gillard will win in a close election. I picked months ago that the papers had decided they didn't like Rudd any more. The papers know things, you should listen to them. They knew Rudd was the saviour two years ago and they knew he was an evil dictator ruining the country soon after. They have their finger on the pulse. Don't be left out!

5. The Greens are the devil incarnate. Don't fall for their bribe of legalising drugs. It will never happen as long as ACA and TT appear on TV.

Oh, and Tony Abbott licks his lips too often. It brings imagery of the snake (Devil), and of sleazy porn actors.

Hasbeen re Having given us Whitlam & Latham, a couple of incredibly incompetent, but arrogant ratbags as leaders, then Rudd, an arrogant twit, you start talking about what the libs should do. You even suggset Turnbull, another arrogant twit should be recycled.

Yes, it is strange how those who, based on the snide comments, obviously elected the current bunch of incompetents to government and would have elected all the forerunning cronies of union bosses and secret deal brokers , have the temerity to advise us on how the liberal party should behave.
But those who would have voted for Whitlam (hubris personified), Hawke (who ousted Bill Hayden in another union inspired palace coup and would see no Australian child living in poverty – HA HA oops) and who, in turn was shafted by the grim reaper, Keating (Tax cuts written into LAW... but he was Lying), Biffo Latham and that most recently departed Albino Chinese dentist,
do enjoy casting the shadow of their worthless opinions over their betters

doubtless Ms Gizzards will be on the nose of the socialist mob should she follow the likely path and disclose her lack of credentials to the electorate before voting day, which is likely to be sooner than later, bearing in mind she is competing against the clock with her credibility and the end of the honeymoon.

The public conversations that surround
politics often reveal the deep inability
of each opposing viewpoint to comprehend
the other; a world of much mutual stereotyping
and consequent ignorance.

More intractably
problematic is the fact that so many of
the voices in this sermonising - for it's rarely
a dialogue - merely talk across each other.

Within their own frames of reference, they may
make perfect sense. The problem is that we're
unable to see the limitations of our own frame
of reference. Anyway,I do try to sweep the
clutter of my mind aside,
and find some precious mental space, in which
I often find myself gazing
silently at newspaper articles and news programmes
on TV at night. In all that - I see a world far
too complex and sophisticated to be stuffed
into two linguistic boxes labelled - "conservative,"
and "left-wing/socialist.

I would have said " lizard" Houellebecq, he also makes an audible clicking noise
with his pallet that sort of signals that the tongue is about to go into unlock mode
and say something he considers clever.

i recently worked with a car servicing manager whom used the same smarmy grin
technique Abbott does. After shocking someone with overpriced charges and an unsatisfactory result.
It appeared to the observer, that he took great delight in
telling customers that it wasn't his problem.

They would say "but you've charged me all this money and I've still got the problem"
He'd reply "at least you've got new shock absorbers now, so we know it's not that".
Repeat smarmy grin etc. His ears would rise in unison with the grin.

The personalities is all that is left to me (it seems) of Australian politics
because it is hard to determine the difference between them,
both sides now beholden to the Corporate Sector.

It's possible that Kevin Rudd's scalp was part of the new tax deal.
It was amazing how fast the new PM was able to forge a deal with the Big Miners.
Rudd may well have been the last genuinely labour PM we will ever see.
I'll remember them all fondly, although of Bob Hawke not as fondly..

I voted for Whitlam in 72 and 73? because all the Senate did was block everything.

I refused to vote in 75 in my own personal veto of an election that was
hijacked by the opposition rigging the numbers in the Senate.

Democracy on that occasion was not operating correctly and was influenced
unduly by vested interests and media barons, and their oversea's interests
even possibly oversea's govt's.

The unprecedented situation itself, that our twice elected govt had found itself in then,

was enough alone to depose it, even before the 3rd election had even been held.

I may well do so (veto I mean), this election (at least symbolically),
based upon similar reasoning. Maybe it's time for a new mainstream party
that puts the people first?. Oh well just a passing thought.

Insightful comments foxy.
Hoolly, you do know why we call it two party preferred do you?
Your advice would see the second last you vote for elected if we all did it.
Love knowing how little some know about the subject.
It is clear while we like democracy if our team wins we blame it if they do not.
Rabbott has failed he is yesterdays flop.
hop away bloke leave room for another Lazarus, Turnbull.

The problem for the liberal party is that no matter who leads them to the next election they won't win (yes i may live to eat my words ). Australians will feel the pull back to what they knew for many years, but in the end they will stay the course they chose to go last time. The Lib's will win again when either they install a leader without baggage from the Howard government or enough time has passed that all memory has gone. EG: John Howard, by the time he came to power we had forgotten his association to the Fraser government and his 22% comercial interest rates, As Bob Hawke was seen as clean of the Whitlam era.
Surely someone in the party can be found that has a fresh face and direction for the future, but we probably wouldn't elect them as we didn't John Hewson.

As a person I somehow thinks we get a more honest person in Tony Abbott then we have in Gillard, Hockey or others.
Tony may have his silly antics but at least he is more human then the front presented by Gillard and Hockey.
Then again as like Gillard it seems Tony also have no reading and writing skills when it comes to answering correspondences, or for that matter even to acknowledge them, where as Howard and Rudd displayed them.
Perhaps we do better having a duo Prime ministerial set up that Tony and Julia (Gillard) are going to be partners in crime as joint Prime Ministers as after all with the AFL having up to 4 captains in one team why not apply the same in politics and we may just kick out both major political parties and then vote only for INDEPENDENTS.
Can anyone explain why we have to pay for a security guard for Julia’s boyfriend? Surely he isn’t elected and isn’t married to her and so I view has no business costing the taxpayers monies for a security guard. Just shows you elect someone and next they may have a harem with them and all of them will need a body guard but only if the taxpayers are paying for it.

Dear Mr Gerrit H Schorel-Hlavka,

He is not Julia Gillard's "boyfriend," but her
partner, and as such it is normal procedure for
leaders of all nations, (for security reasons)
to be provided with a bodyguard for
family members. (They could be held
to ransom). Kevin Rudd's family were provided
with bodyguards, as were John Howard's, and so
on. Normal procedure.

Again foxy spot on, lets look at that post.
Surely it is evidence not being a follower of the party in power can lead some to appear bigoted?
At this time security is a real problem, traditionally our country's head and family are subject to very clear threats.
Here in threads about politics in OLO, you can find a truth.
Australia's distrust of politicians is grown within us all.
We taunt those we do not follow even fish for reason to dislike them, and often say things that are just stupid ,even bigoted.
Boyfriend is in this case a sexist and abusive way to talk of our leaders partner, it could be the partner of a great number of Australians.

No one has responded to my last post, particularly my suggestion of Scott Morrison for Libs leader.

What the Libs desperately need is a leader who carries no baggage, is highly articulate and well-presented and who can bring off a substantial change in policy direction, in the right direction, as effectively as the change from Rudd to Gillard appears to be.

What are the Libs to do if they are to have ANY chance of winning the next election?

I’d say that they have simply GOT to put Morrison in the leadership!
http://www.aph.gov.au/house/members/member.asp?id=E3L

Scott who?

G’mooorn’n CJ

Ok, so you’ve put up two posts on this thread, with a grand total of 19 words!

So um, you are following this discussion but not really contributing anything meaningful { :>)

Could you please tell me what you think the Libs should do regarding their leadership and policies in order to maximise their chances of winnin da next lection?

It ammusses me how you all talk about who will win the next election, when it is clearly a case of whether or not the sitting government will loose badly enough to see a change of government.

Now until we start seeing some 'winners', rather than 'loosers' in polotics, we are all loosers.

It's long been a race to the bottom.

Belly,

'Hoolly, you do know why we call it two party preferred do you?'

Of course. But if everyone did it, by chance neither of the two main would be elected, and even if they were, they would see that they weren't really first choice, so could STFU about having a 'mandate' to do whatever they liked.

'Your advice would see the second last you vote for elected if we all did it.'

How? If there were no seats going to any Labor or Liberal candidates (Or certainly very few), how do they form government? Perhaps the Shooters party would be elected, or worse the Greens.

Is it just that you cant even imagine a non major party candidate getting 50% of the primary vote?

Remember Also Belly, 'If no candidate secures an absolute majority of primary votes, then the candidate with the least number of votes is "eliminated" from the count.'

I long for a misfit bunch of independents and greens holding the power. Anarchy would teach the two parties a lesson in humility. I suppose there is the danger the Libs/Labour/Nats would form a new party and we would have 1 party. Actually not that different to now.

The Administrative Bureaucracy to the Mining Industry and Banks. Has a nice ring to it.

'Boyfriend is in this case a sexist and abusive way to talk of our leaders partner'

Wow, I call my 'partner' my girlfriend all the time. Never knew I was being sexist and abusive.

Hi Ludwig. Actually, I think rehctub's last succinct comment is right on the mark, although perhaps not for the reason he thinks.

I now think that the Australian electorate probably deserves to suffer under Abbott, given Gillard's shameless dog-whistling over asylum seekers. If they respond, that is - and I'm rather hopeful that the odious strategy backfires on Labor.

The best result would be a hung parliament, with the Greens holding the balance of power in the Senate.

If the Coalition lose, the first step towards any viable resuscitation would be to ditch the vile Abbott in favour of Turnbull, I would have thought.

Foxy, I totally agree with your last post re Gillard’s partner.

----
Gerrit, you make an interesting comment:

<< Perhaps we do better having a duo Prime ministerial set up that Tony and Julia (Gillard) are going to be partners in crime as joint Prime Ministers… >>

Hmmmm, doesn’t sound that unfeasible. Well, let’s face it, as I’ve said many times on OLO, the Libs and Labs are just two peas in a pod. Many times I’ve called them the Liblabs as they have essentially the same political philosophies and policies.

We have in effect had a Liberal / Labor coalition for many years!!

Yeah, so why not have joint prime ministership?? ( :>/

CJ, it beats me how you can call Gillard's sensible call for debate that is uninhibited by political correctness a dog-whistle!

Methinks you take the critical line a tad too far there.

So I take it that you don't think Morrison would make a good Libs leader... or that you (and presumably everyone else in this discussion) hasn't even remotely considered the possibility?

Suuurely there is a much better alternative, and one that is achievable, to the bloomin Groans holding the balance of power!

How about a strongly sustainability-oriented Liberal party under the leadership of Morrison, for example!

CJ refers to the issue for mine Ludwig.

Why is a mere 5000 people per year arriving on boats considered so much of a problem
by so many Australians?. It's at the very least irrational,
considering refugee numbers elsewhere around the world.

As for Morrison, I know he has been the opposition mouthpiece
on refugees since Abbott wrenched leadership from Turnbull and
he has done a good job of talking this issue up out of all proportion.
Kind of speaks for itself doesn't it Ludwig?.

*Boyfriend is in this case a sexist and abusive way to talk of our leaders partner*

Hang on Belly, people have talked of boyfriend and girlfriend for
eons, now suddenly you want to introduce the thought and language
police. Sorry, just because some latte sipping city slickers
dreamt this up, does not mean that its law.

Fair go bloke! yabby while I have not contributed to the boots in your rib cadge here, apart from one mention,think about this.
Once a long term relationship starts,live in one, we call them partners.
Do you see ANY value in the post condemning JG for security being paid to protect him?
No bloke the post was nit picking.
Further up the thread a poster says he/she would not vote for any of them.
Now consider this, is it more likely he/she is out of step with the rest of us or are we all wrong.

The only reason I can see why the words 'Boyfriend', Girlfriend' or husband or wife are not used as much, or are seen as 'offencive' is simply because PCisum is out there protecting the rights of a very small minority group, that being the gays.

Boyfriend, girlfriend will always be fine by me.

Did you see Scott Morrison on Lateline last night?

Impressive!

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s2946496.htm

I thought he seemed quite horrible - a bit like Alexander Downer with balls and a brain.

Wow CJ, a politician with balls and a brain! What more could you ever want in a pollie?

He’ll be Libs leader and then PM for sure with those almost unique qualities!!

So what's not to like about him??

Dear Ludwig,

A politician with balls and a brain,
what's not to like?

Well, let's see...

"My body is covered with muscle
And my arms are incredibly long
I'm big-earred and proud
And I bellow out loud
To show that I'm mighty and strong!"

Remind you of anyone?

<< I'm big-eared and proud... >>

Er... does he wear budgie-smugglers?

Dear Ludwig,

Yes, and he likes to ride bicycles
as well and isn't sure whether to
pull our new PM's ponytail or take
her out on a date.

In an earlier post I mentioned 1975 and the Dismissal.

I have now realised that (what we just experienced in the current leadership coup in the Labor Party)
is exactly the same as the dismissal with one fundamental difference.
Both sides of politics are on the same side.

I believe In 75 the Govt was removed by the interference of external forces and democracy was trashed because that was only way for vested interests to force their will upon Australia at that time, because our governing party (Whitlams Labor)was solidly behind it own twice mandated agenda.

Whitlam ended the Vietnam War by withdrawing Australian troops as promised in the 72 election, thereby upsetting the US Gov't in the process.

Another thing Whitlam did was indicate to the Americans that he felt Australia
should have greater participation at Pine Gap.

The lease for Pine Gap Base was due to expire Nov/ 11/ 1975. After being elected, upon becoming Prime Minister, the very first thing Malcolm Fraser did as PM was to sign the renewal of this lease.

To be fair to Malcolm, you could say he thought this was in the national interest at the time, I don't know for sure either way.

In the 75 election, we counted votes(first time) computers or electronically. During the count the Labor vote was 10 % ahead of the Libs early. Then the new counting system failed, and did not come back on line for an hour or so. When it did eventually come back on line, the situation had reversed and the Libs were 10 % ahead. Make your own conclusions

I conclude, it's possible, that with both sides cow towing in unison too external vested interests,
(whom have managed to dismiss our PM and replace him with one more co-operative),
and have also struck a deal ( too their liking) over our financial future and resources.
that we should all consider voting a farce and democracy an illusion.

Is polling making the news again and not reporting it as past experience has taught me?.
I think I smell a rat (or 2)

Ludwig,

As usual you are seeking cover in the smoke. Watch out for black lung.
Liberal policy (?) is return to the past pure and simple. And they have the audacity to to claim labor simply changed the salesman not the rancid, fetid policy.

In truth all it will achieve(?)will be the clearing of Australian news broadcasts. The deaths misery et al will remain. hasn't that blonk learned anything from history? If one wants conflict deny large masses of basic life needs and hope. Talk about political BS that whistles up bigotry.
Have you ever been to a refugee camp? clearly not.

If Aust's population level your primary concern as you constantly say, then why are you ignoring the other far greater numbers of REAL ILLEGAL and economic refugees? Could it be they're white? They certainly breach the integrity of our borders.
Sure it will stop people smugglers but will increase exponentially crime and degradation/prostitution, exploitation etc. It will exacerbate not solve anything meaningful. Make us safer ....humf dream on.The policy is obscene as are the pathetic minds that allowed the lesser end of humanity to lead. Leaders are supposed to lead not pander to the mental gutter.

Foxy, the person to whom you refer might have balls, but a brain??

C'mawwn, that’s pushing it! ( :>)

Xammy!

Fair go! I’m just not too sure what you are trying to say, but it all sounds way over the top!.

<< The policy is obscene… >>

Which policy exactly?

Dear Ludwig,

I'm not the one "pushing it."
It's the guy you so
admire - Scott Morrison, who is!

As a matter of fact he's pushing
a barrow with Howard in it as well
as Tony Abbott on the side!

But you're right - it's not having
a brain that matters - like most things,
its how you use it that counts! ;-)

Ludwig,
The point I was making was the policy (off shore processing) espoused by both Labor and Liberals. Scott whatsis (in your post of lateline) justification is 1 part BS and 2 smoke and mirrors.
Both versions of the the policy treat a symptom not the problem.
My criticism of your and Scott's arguments are that it is about population numbers and integrity of our borders respectively. Both are fatally flawed and in Scott's case disingenuous in that we have a far bigger issue with the other sources.
As for his 178 lives lost argument he should, as an intelligent person, be ashamed of the pathetic logic.

Clearly neither he or You have any real concept of what goes on in these camps particularly in corruptible 3rd world countries.

Put simply both your arguments are intellectually and logically moribund. Pathetic cover for NIMBY on steroids or shallow thinking and concern for people.

While as individuals we have little control over such short term reasoning, we are able to choose the party policies that are so thin and immoral by our standards

Xam

Have you ever in any way lobbied our federal government to increase our formal refugee intake or to increase our international aid effort directed towards addressing the causal factors of refugeeism?

Why are you so concerned about onshore asylum seeking being closed down when such a small number of people are involved compared to what could be assisted if our refugee intake and international aid programs were increased even just a little bit?

What would you have our federal government do about onshore asylum seeking? What is your desired policy?

You and I have had lots of exchanges on this forum, just about all of which have been very amicable, a couple of which have been neutral, and none of which have been tetchy or antagonistic, until now. We’ve been good mates Xammy.

A couple of my long-time major concerns, which you now apparently seem to totally disagree with me about, are onshore asylum seeking and population growth. We’ve exchanged views on these issues previously but always in a friendly manner. So what’s goin on??