The Forum > General Discussion > Religious Education As a Part of Literary Culture
Religious Education As a Part of Literary Culture
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Posted by david f, Saturday, 29 May 2010 8:47:31 PM
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Secularized organized religions have
become, in many cases, as calcified as other institutions that form the structure of our modern world. Our religious institutions have far too often become handmaidens of the status quo, while the genuine religious experience is anything but that. Religious institutions, as such, are not the only arbiters of religious experience. They are consultants and frameworks, but they are not God Himself. We should not confuse the path with the destination. Organized religion will have to step up to bat, religiously, or it will wither away. Organized religious institutions are in for a huge transformation, for the simple reason that people have become genuinely religious in spite of them. Spirituality is an inner fire, a mystical sustenance that feeds our souls. Religion means "to bind back." Its purpose is to turn back into ourselves, to the well inside from which we are endlessly creative. I have come to realize that true religion is internal, not external. What some have done in the name of religion, projecting their neuroses, even perpetrating evil on the world, does not make religion as a mystical phenomenon invalid. Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 29 May 2010 9:22:15 PM
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Dear Foxy,
Religion suffers by being associated with the instruments of power. I think Judaism suffers by its association with the government of Israel as Christianity suffered by becoming an instrument of Roman rule. Both religions have been corrupted by power. In the Talmud are various midrashim or stories which seek to soften the harshness of the Bible. One of the stories concerns the crossing of the Red Sea. As the waters closed over the ranks of the Egyptian the angels around the Lord cheered. The Lord told them not to cheer but wept because the Egyptians were also his children. In the Spanish-American War at the battle of Santiago the Spanish ships were battered by the long range American guns. They were unable to retaliate since the Americans kept out of range of their guns. The American sailors cheered. John Woodward Philip restrained his crew by saying, “Don’t cheer, boys; the poor devils are dying.” When I heard the bomb dropped on Hiroshima and wiped out many people I felt a great joy. Afterward I questioned my great joy at a mass killing. What had I become? I believe there is an impulse for us to be kind and loving. Unfortunately religion does not often foster that impulse and even can demand that we stifle our decent impulses. According to the Bible God hardened Pharaoh’s heart so he would not let the people go. Had he softened Pharaoh’s heart the drowning of the Egyptians would have been unnecessary. God was a bloody hypocrite weeping over something he caused in the first place. The God of the Bible is simply a nasty entity unworthy of my worship. However, that does not mean we can ignore the promptings of love and decency and the wonders of this world. Today the Queensland Mycology Society went for a foray in which we found 27 species of mushrooms. We identified about half and probably will identify the others. If we don’t we may have discovered a new species. Exciting! Posted by david f, Saturday, 29 May 2010 10:45:56 PM
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david f,
Your impression that Christianity is now a dying phase in humanity is far from the truth. It is just that you mix among atheistic people like yourself. You do not live in China or Africa where thousands are becoming Christian followers each day. China has over 200,000 home missionaries who are also developing their culture from underground. No Government edict or force, in fact the current Government is threatening such a movement. The people are looking for personal meaning and finding it in Christ. Similar happened in South Korea that the majority religion identified there is Christianity. The largest Church in the World is in South Korea with over 75,000 members. Christianity is personal and not national. Russia is again educating their children in the values of Christianity. I was with a clinical phycologist and educator friend tonight who is shortly going to Russia in the promotion of a book and course on values designed for schools. Posted by Philo, Saturday, 29 May 2010 11:14:45 PM
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davidf, I don't have the knowledge or authority to answer questions about the Bible or any religious text.
Please excuse me then if this post seems preachy. It isn't meant to be but I want to set out my personal framework for understanding the Bible and Christianity. Years ago I spent a few years keenly studying as much religious text and writing about the Bible as I could and comparing the interpretation of one authority with another. I concluded that the most knowledgeable and capable historians and theologians had dedicated their lives to comprehending such matters and even they often disagreed - with interpretations of some parts hanging on a single word, inflection or idiom that had certain relevance to the writer, audience and in the language and setting of the time. Historiography and the ethics of writing history helped me to understand how to appreciate some accounts and characters in the context of the time in which they occurred or were supposed to have occurred. Btw: Here is an example of how something like your question about the hardening of Pharaoh's heart might be understood: http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2259 In the end, I arrived at a few points that provided me with a framework for my Christian commitment: 1. We can forever pick and debate - but the meaning of what we read occurs in the combination of what a text says literally and what the reader brings of their self to it. (Their knowledge of, for example, history and society of the times; their own heart; their experience and understanding of humanity). 2. I came to understand that there is a literal meaning and a spiritual meaning - such as one accepts in fables, mythology and such. I stood back and took the broad view that much of what we were reading was comprised of writings from many sources of stories that were meant for oral story telling. The large mass of population were basically illiterate. Stories had to have some compelling images and ideas to withstand telling and retelling while conveying the spiritual message or moral lesson. cont'd Posted by Pynchme, Sunday, 30 May 2010 12:49:14 AM
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3. I thought about Jesus' life and attitude. Jesus was a radical in his own time. Even striking up a conversation with a strange woman at a well was a radical act. I thought about his followers - all types. He was inclusive; not exclusive.
4. In a time of terrible harshness amongst people Jesus carried a message of hope and kindness. He demonstrated the power of gentleness and humility. A couple of thousand years later; that example still has value and is still something humanity strives towards. 5. Church organizations are imperfect; as all organizations created by humans seem to be. They aren't useless (sometimes in history being the only source of charity, for example) but they are flawed, of course. Never mind - God is not a church or one creed. 6. Luke 18:17 - Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein. (Also relevant - Matthew 19:14) It struck me that I didn't need to KNOW or have an explanation for everything in a literal sense. I needed to reign in my natural (extreme) curiosity and accept what I didn't have the knowledge or experience to KNOW for certain (like a child accepts that what a parent says is true and in their best interest); I decided to trust and love with the confidence that things would become known to me in due course. Galatians 3:11 - But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. and 7. Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Another book that was very meaningful to me was Kenneth Clark's - Civilization. It's quite an old one but is always a joy to read especially re: the way in which Christianity became meaningful throughout Europe and the way that ideas were transmitted through art and architecture etc. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/product-description/0719568447/ref=dp_proddesc_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books Posted by Pynchme, Sunday, 30 May 2010 12:51:10 AM
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It is not the numbers of followers that determine whether a movement can take over a power structure. It is the key position of the followers. One very important follower of Jesus was Constantine's mother. Christianity took over a vast empire in the same manner that the Bolsheviks were able to take over the great Russian Empire in 1917.
How was the great nation of Germany taken over by the Nazis? The popularity of Marxism, Nazism and Christianity indicates once an ideology seizes the levers of power most people will go along with it even though it is absolute nonsense.
In fact the mythology of Christianity and Marxism are much the same. Primitive Communism or a Garden of Eden, the class struggle or a time of troubles until Christianity/Communism is dominant followed by an the millennium at the Second Coming or a millennium of the eventual classless society. The original sin of Marxist history was the development of capitalism which propelled humans out of the paradise of primitive communism into the class struggle.
Eventually the Soviet Union imploded from its own contradictions. The percentage of people who identify themselves as Christian is declining so Christianity may also implode. The present relevations of Vatican coverup of sexual abuse doesn't help. Fundamentalist Christian interference with science teaching doesn't help either. The bloody history of Christianity with its Inquisitions, Crusades, Wars of the Reformation etc. gives little reason to continue the nonsense.